@topic

I think there's nothing in the practical world that AmigaOS and derivates "can do better" of any other mainstream OS in the world. And that's not for the operating system itself, but for the software. Do I need to retouch a photo? There's Photoshop elsewhere, and anything we have can just go near to SOME of its functions, without working at the same level of speed and precision anyway. Do I need to crunch vast amounts of data? Elsewhere there are OpenCL, CUDA and DirectCompute which allow me to create programs taking full advantage of modern GPU streaming cores, when my 4- or 8-core central processing unit is not enough. Do I need to edit videos? or Music? Elsewhere there are not one, or two, or four great solutions... it's simply PLENTY of sfotware that allow me to do what I want, so I am not bound to a single, maybe nearly obsolete editing program. And, best of all, this foreign software works on cheaper, more powerful hardware, with a price/performance ratio current Amiga solutions can't simply compete with.

However, there is still something that makes me prefer booting Icaros Desktop on my netbook than the preinstalled Windows XP. It's what I call "feeling at home" and it's something I can't express with words, but it's something that has to do with attitudes and preferences. As like as I may feel more comfortable with dresses A than dresses B, or with car X rather than car Y, having the classic workbench screen and the AROS shell gives me more happiness than Microsoft's windowsland. I like the ability to grab that icon semi-hidden into that backward window and drag it to the one on the top, without looking it disappear just because I clicked the mouse elsewhere. I like Amiga way to handle right clicks. After all that years and operating systems I used, I had not found any better file manager than DirectoryOpus. Not counting the simple fact I can go to the Internet in less than 20 seconds after I pressed the power button, while on the same system Windows+Firefox require more than 90 seconds to do the same.

So, it's not matter of who is doing things better, but of what makes you feel better. You may find Windows, Linux, MacOS or even Haiku more useful for your needs, but maybe you can find AmigaOS, MorphOS or AROS more comfortable. That's something that depends only on your needs and attitudes.

Quote:

Daedalus wrote: @paolone Not the point I was making (though I'm sure some people have had issues - here in work I only have around 12 letters used). Broadly, the point was that drive letters aren't exactly intuitive, the Amiga does it better with its volume names. Yet, most of the world just uses drive letters without question and just gets on with it. I was just pointing out that drive letters have even appeared in other operating systems which appears to have done that just to be similar to what most people are used to.

Amigans, like unixers, are accustomed to see in the volume name also something related to its hardware root. On AROS I have DUx: for USB pendrives, DFx: for floppies and DHx: for hard drive, and with some extents you can find similar things in any Linux /dev directory. But that's not so important. After all, it does not matter so much if Y: is a pendrive, a hard drive partition, a LUN in a SAN or a network-connected drive, when you copy over it using the dos command or a drag'n'drop operation across windows, the only thing that changes may be the necessary time to complete the transfer. Naming is only another question of attitude. I don't really care if I have to type in copy foo dh1: or copy foo Y:.

There's, however, something that AmigaOS makes so easy and others don't: assigns. Better than any unix softlink.

@paolone

Yep, I see what you're saying there - at the end of the day it doesn't matter. I do think though that volume names as distinct from device names would be a great improvement, and also independent of the underlying device. I find it a pain to try and remember which network drive in work has my Crystal report templates - is it M:\ or is it N:\? Of course I can also type \\iebra08\departments\pd\reports to get to the location, but if they were called PD-Reports: and QC-Reports: it would be far easier to remember when I try to copy some by hand at the prompt.

Ideally, like you say, an assign would solve all that, but all I have now are shortcuts on the desktop which are fine for the file requesters but not in batch files or at the prompt.

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@opi

Quote:

opi wrote: @DAX Quote: Draggable screens are "unintuitive"? Do an experiment: get 30 people, sit them in front of Amiga, see how many will drag screen. Just because you're used to it does not mean that people would get it. I love Vim because I can use Vim, I don't expect it to be intuitive.

I don't disagree necessarily. The features I/we are talking about I would consider "power user" features or something. If you gave anybody's Mom Screen Dragging, Click to Front (active Window doesn't automatically come to front when focused), etc then you they would be lost, sure I agree.

However, give those features to 30 people on Windows, get them to use it daily, and then one day remove them. I think many will see that as "feature" that has now been "removed". And would say they lost some functionality, not gained something.

_________________
A3000D (16mhz, 2MB Chip, 4MB Fast, SCSI (300+MB), SuperGen Genlock, Kick 3.1)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
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@Manu

Quote:

Manu wrote: @AmigaHeretic Quote: AmigaHeretic wrote: @tomazkid [quote] tomazkid wrote: @MacSociety Not needing to have the active window on top is still quite unique. I'd kill for this in Windows.

Sorry, I've forgotten. what was that good for ?

Everytime I use AROS i tend to enable click to front most of the time.
I remember I used that alot with my A1200 also a decade ago.
[/quote]

I think Daedalus gave a good explanation.

Of course we are talking about the feature "double click to front". So if I click once on window it becomes active (gains focus) but doesn't automatically move to the front. You have to double click the window to bring it to the front.

Why is that good? Let's say I have a web browser open. It's maximized. Then I open Notepad and I want to write something down in Notepad while looking at the webpage. When I click back to the web page to scroll down, Notepad wouldn't disappear.

Really more handy when I then have stuff on notepad and them I am trying to use that information to add some information to a website (any program). On Windows everytime I click on the browser notepad will disappear (move to the back). So then you are either constantly doing Alt-Tab a dozen times or you have to resize your browser, resize notepad, etc to get it both fit at the same time on the screen.

Again, one of those features you don't realize you're even missing until you use. It would be like removing right click in Windows. Sure Mac users are use to have one mouse button and you could argue about which way is better. But Getting rid of right click on mouse I think most would see as a loss, if they are use to it.

_________________
A3000D (16mhz, 2MB Chip, 4MB Fast, SCSI (300+MB), SuperGen Genlock, Kick 3.1)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Back in my day, we didn't have water. We only had Oxygen & Hydrogen, & we'd just shove 'em together

@MacSociety

All three AmigaOID OSs are in the same boat, other then "fun" there are not significant advantages over Windows/Linux/ OS-X. Of the above reasons in the above posts, I would consider them either, silly, BFD, and some are a serious weakness spun as a strength.

_________________
Dammy

@MacSociety

Quote:

MacSociety wrote: Other than the #1 answer that it is fun computing (which I agree with on retro systems like Amiga and Atari and NeXT etc...), is there anything today that the Amiga platform, in this case Amiga OS 4.1 on any system that can run it, do anything better, faster, easier, in less time, etc.... than other platforms like Mac OS X or Linux or Windows 7? tj

Well, highly subjective, but it is the best platform (im my case MorphOS, but for OS4 this would be true pretty much the same) that allows me the continuation of the more or less same environemnt since ages (I am _l a z y_, very to be precise!). I still have files around from te early 90ies and the according programs to use them.
My disk/file structure kept more or less the same since the mid nineties. This is a feature no other OS than an Amigaish OS can offer me.

Active windows only dropping to font on a double click (default settig for MorphOS) is one of the few things I'd consider an advantage objectively. But most stuff is subjective and very difficult to measure anyway. I'd neither say Amiga/MorphOS is better or worse than Windows or OS X, each has its features. But *I* prefer MorphOS over QNX (well, don't use that actvel ysince years, but liked it *very* much) over Windows over OS X (albeit I consider OS X the better OS generally, but personally I don't like it too much) over Linux. That's all OSes I actively used.
For the average Joe I guess OS X is best.

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MorphOS user since V0.4 (2001)

@opi

Quote:

opi wrote: @DAX Mac ain't iPad, mon. Mac is completely different from Windows. There are lots of things that won't translate into OS X paradigm. I was talking about touch-enabled devices. Show it to someone and he'll swiping pages, moving icons and running applications in minutes. Touching is natural. Moving "screens" on computer is not.

not quite sure on that. I thought the same as you for quite some time, but I found out it's just us seeing it because we know the evoulution which is behind.

Take a person which had no contact to computers whatever and the outcome is the same as giving them an iPad. I tried this in rural Russia. It's alien and too complicated.

I have to admit though that the learnig curve was steeper on the iPad (other factors may have compromised this, since the mouse was a thing one had to get familiar too) and it was easier for them to comprehend the internal system structure of Amiga, compared to linux and XP (had no win7 or macosx there)

As for the screendragging, it's handy, but intuitive is the wrong adjective to use. It's as intuitive as the multiple desktops on my Mac or the multiple screens on the iPhone, (or have you seen a book with no pages on which a pictured background remains the same while the writings scroll from right to left? You have to learn about their existence. Whether or not screens are better than multiple desktops it's open to debate I think. If who is in charge can implement dragging windows and apps|program|tool windows from one screen to the other and a global view like in macos, then I prefere the AmigaOS approach, because you can sneak peak to an underlying screen and it's quicker because ther is no animation involved.

@paolone

yes, good points.
Besides, even if AmigaOS was and is aiming at a desktop OS, I don't see the point on pointing out the obvious differences to mainstream OSes.
We all know the situation "we" were in in the last decade, and as I see it atm, it's like saying: "why should I buy an iPad?" I can't run Photoshop on it, I can't Skype on it, I can't connect a printer, even not an USB pen.
Similarly with those hype netbooks, I would not want to use photoshop on such a thing. ATM Amiga is for fun and hobby. This does not mean you can not do some professional things with it.

It's up to oneself if he wan's to spend 2000$ on a radio controlled car or buy a scooter or a bicycle for that money.

@Amigo1

Quote:

Amigo1 wrote: It's up to oneself if he wan's to spend 2000$ on a radio controlled car or buy a scooter or a bicycle for that money.

True I have a camera which, along with a couple of lenses etc. has cost me far more than the X1000 will cost. And so far in my life I've sold one single picture for ¤25. But I love it and that's what's important for me.

The flip side of this is of course, I'd be hard pushed to justify spending that on a camera if there was one for ¤500 which was compatible with far more accessories and had more features and a better image quality. Likewise for the RC car, if one for $500 gave better performance, why would you spend the $2000? If you had the spare cash, and there were some small features about the $2000 car, then maybe, even if it is slower. And really, if you're happy with it for that price, why not?

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@Daedalus
For most here it's about choices also, so the fact that a Mac or PC offer more for less isn't much of an issue (and quite frankly we all already have one of those).

It was back then, we had the choice of getting a PC, a Mac or Amiga.

The Amiga group was a peculiar one, some chose Amiga considering it just a game machine.
Of course when bad times came they bought themselves a PC (they're actual first computer for "work" purposes) and a SuperNintendo.

Others used their Amiga either professionally or were learning their profession on it, they chose to stay on the Amiga, buy OS upgrades, expansion cards and what not.

Then the rug was finally pulled beneath our feets, we were left with our ass on the ground and the message: "we're closed, go get another computer"

Some did, never to look back, some went away and returned, some never left.

In my case I just wanted to buy a new fully boxed Amiga to replace the last one. Yes a PPC model with the newest AmigaOS would have been great. I couldn't care less about the creative talk I sometime hear on Amiga.org, about the holy magical chipset. Even JayMiner suggested 24-Bit video-cards in one of his last interviews and I was using my expanded system (with no use for OCS/AGA to speak of) for quite a while.

I didn't want something to beat the SuperNintendo or the Playstation (as many people that had mistaken Amiga for their game console, so much wanted) I just wanted a new faster machine, my familiar environment, my favorite software.

Today the X1000 is the only thing on the horizon that resembles what I wanted (I already have a Sam), and sure I would like to buy it for less, but guess what? The economics of our small community won't allow a cheap price.

Good enough, I'll get it just the same, I came back hoping for it.... my new boxed Amiga...can't wait

Last edited by DAX on 02-Feb-2011 at 06:57 PM.

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AmigaCD 32

@DAX

Quote:

Some did, never to look back, some went away and returned, some never left.

Then you have me, never used an Amiga at all up until just 1 year ago but something keeps me coming back to all the Amiga forums to keep abreast of the Amiga scene. Decided to look into Amiga based on the X1000 story that hit the airwaves a year or so ago. Decided to buy all sorts of old Amiga tech and tinker with them a bit. Have since sold it all off in hopes the X1000 would have been available for sale by now. I keep asking myself why I even want one since I have so many computers old and new here at home office.

I saw some promise in tinkering with the Amigas I did own for a short time and like some of the features as people have posted here. I would say what interests me most is indeed the X1000 and the Xmos factor. Even if it does not turn out to be much, I see it as that GEEK port like found on the BeBox. Gives the system that one thing much different than most PCs you buy including the Macs I use now.

I like the smaller platforms and mostly the people involved even though some posts on these Amiga forums get real old after a while. I tune those out and keep coming back for more news about Amiga.

I am one of those willing to spend good $, even too much money, on unique things. I guess I see the X1000 as a bit unique even if it is underpowered compared to todays systems. It is a underdog that I hope does well. Just hope it comes for sale soon so I don't spend the $2500 I have stashed away for it. I am afraid if late Spring early summer comes and there is no X1000, I may finally leave. Then again, I am a sick puppy so might keep coming back to the forums for more punishment.

But, I do like and for whatever reason want to own and run Amiga OS 4.x.

tj

Last edited by MacSociety on 02-Feb-2011 at 07:14 PM.

@all

I've found that virtual desktops are smoother to use than screens in AOS. In at least Kubuntu and MacOS X you can just press "CTRL+F8" and you will get four (or how many you configured) desktop on screen that you can choose from and move windows between them. Each desktop will look the same with the same startmenu, background picture etc.

Are there anything that are better with screens these days?

Offcourse making your own screenmodes for emulators can be good still but DVI only supports down to 640x480 while emulatores like E-UAE, MAME, SNES etc requires lower resolutions and there's also the posibility of scaling.

Any thoughts?

@MacSociety

Well, I find lots of stuff is better on Amiga... (OS3.9 +CGX)

Real time menus, no matter what their size. Mac and PC menus are painfully slow.
Real time screen switching, vastly improves productivity.

Screens ( A joy to use when you have a multi monitor system ).(got 4)
Being stuck on an extended fixed desktop on a Mac or PC (if you have more than one monitor )
is a real pain.

A sensible logical file system.

Smooth multitasking

You are in control at all times.


Now believe it or not, I still run a multimedia system in my friends store. (A3000 +Genlock).
Running Scale MM400 + Blitz Basic + Store cameras, providing advertising and silly stuff in
real time over store video, or recorded video. Screen dragging works a treat with that setup.
The resolution is only 640*512 and 320*256, but works great and has been running for about
10 years. And cost next to nothing.

PS: Works even better with a VlabMotion plugged in, can use it for surveillance or just
recording customers for a laugh and play it back with Arexx scripting.

Wol.

Last edited by Wol on 02-Feb-2011 at 07:38 PM.

_________________
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@Wol

Quote:

Screens ( A joy to use when you have a multi monitor system ).(got 4) Being stuck on an extended fixed desktop on a Mac or PC (if you have more than one monitor ) is a real pain.

So, you have 4 monitors all connected to an Amiga of some kind right now? How does that work? 4 separate video cards or just one and somehow you can view separate windows on each display?

I am used to have 2 displays on my Macs and it is great have a huge extended desktop but how does multi monitor work on an Amiga?

What Amiga do you have that is doing this?

tj

@paolone

Quote:

There's, however, something that AmigaOS makes so easy and others don't: assigns. Better than any unix softlink.

I've tried to emulate assigns by adding the following code to my .bashrc file:

function assign {
  if [ $# -eq 1 ]; then
    eval value=\$$1
    if [ $value ]; then
      echo $value
    else
      echo "'$1' is not set"
    fi
  elif [ $# -eq 2 ]; then
    eval value=\$$1
    if [ $value ]; then
      echo "'$1' is already set"
    else
      export $1=$2
    fi
  else
    echo 'Usage: assign  '
  fi
}

alias assign='assign $1 $2'

bison@localhost:~$ assign foo
'foo' is not set
bison@localhost:~$ assign foo /usr/include/qt4/
bison@localhost:~$ assign foo
/usr/include/qt4/
bison@localhost:~$ dir $foo
total 136
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 20480 2011-01-29 21:56 Qt
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 12288 2011-01-29 21:56 Qt3Support
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root  4096 2011-01-29 21:56 QtAssistant
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 20480 2011-01-29 21:56 QtCore
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root  4096 2011-01-29 21:56 QtDBus
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root  4096 2011-01-29 21:56 QtDesigner
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 24576 2011-01-29 21:56 QtGui
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root  4096 2011-01-29 21:56 QtHelp
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root  4096 2011-01-29 21:56 QtNetwork
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root  4096 2011-01-29 21:56 QtOpenGL
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root  4096 2011-01-29 21:56 QtScript
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root  4096 2011-01-29 21:56 QtScriptTools
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root  4096 2011-01-29 21:56 QtSql
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root  4096 2011-01-29 21:56 QtSvg
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root  4096 2011-01-29 21:56 QtTest
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root  4096 2011-01-29 21:56 QtUiTools
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root  4096 2011-01-29 21:56 QtWebKit
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root  4096 2011-01-29 21:56 QtXml
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root  4096 2011-01-29 21:56 QtXmlPatterns
bison@localhost:~$ unset foo
bison@localhost:~$ assign foo
'foo' is not set
bison@localhost:~$

Last edited by bison on 02-Feb-2011 at 08:37 PM.
Last edited by bison on 02-Feb-2011 at 08:31 PM.

_________________
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@Daedalus

Quote:

Daedalus wrote: @Amigo1 The flip side of this is of course, I'd be hard pushed to justify spending that on a camera if there was one for ¤500 which was compatible with far more accessories and had more features and a better image quality. Likewise for the RC car, if one for $500 gave better performance, why would you spend the $2000? If you had the spare cash, and there were some small features about the $2000 car, then maybe, even if it is slower. And really, if you're happy with it for that price, why not?

I see, but I don't think one can compare the Amiga to a PC or Mac. In your analogy you'd have to compare a MOS with an OS4 machine.
Going back to the cars or real cars analogy, if the implications of what you said would be fully true then, at least in most parts if not all of Europe, the asian models should long have overwhelmed the local industry.

edit:typos and smilies

Last edited by Amigo1 on 02-Feb-2011 at 09:04 PM.
Last edited by Amigo1 on 02-Feb-2011 at 08:40 PM.

@DAX
#51
What I tried to say; You explained it better.

Last edited by Amigo1 on 02-Feb-2011 at 08:47 PM.

@MacSociety

Hi,
On my A4000
I have 2 - 17 in crt's fed by CyberVisionPPC and CyberVision64,
and 1 Microvetec multisynch on AGA output and a Phillips 8833 on
VlabMotion output.


In my friends store on the A3000 I have a Phillips 8833 when the Vlab is fitted, and on
the ECS output some other branded tv,s with SCART sockets (RGB or comp).



Wol.

_________________
It is my conviction that killing under the cloak of war is nothing but an act of murder.~Albert Einstein

@hotrod

Quote:

hotrod wrote: @all I've found that virtual desktops are smoother to use than screens in AOS. In at least Kubuntu and MacOS X you can just press "CTRL+F8" and you will get four (or how many you configured) desktop on screen that you can choose from and move windows between them. Each desktop will look the same with the same startmenu, background picture etc. Are there anything that are better with screens these days? Offcourse making your own screenmodes for emulators can be good still but DVI only supports down to 640x480 while emulatores like E-UAE, MAME, SNES etc requires lower resolutions and there's also the posibility of scaling. Any thoughts?

I'm with you about the "desktop/screens overview" and being able do drag window from one screen to another (like application windows, notepad, calculator)
but to say the truth, I don't see the point of having a cloned Workbench on each Screen. Workbench is the "file manager" and why should i have to have that in my "internet screen"?
What could be handy IMHO though, is if some "utilities" on the menubar would be available or jump instantly to other screens, like e.g. a clock or a CPU meter, a volume control comes to mind too.

jumping from one screen to the other can not be done with CTRL-F8 but with RIGHT AMIGA-N and RAMIGA-M

Last edited by Amigo1 on 02-Feb-2011 at 09:05 PM.