Guys, turning this thread into a mud slinging contest of who out of the last few remaining Amiga player throw the most mud is not that productive.

All this thread was about for me, is I notice my site has gone up the google ranking and is getting more hits now (yay for me) but it suddenly just made me think why isn’t there a official site, when I thought Cloanto had got the right to the Amiga name and site over three year, some of it been answered, likely due to legal mess. Fair enough.

Then my next thought was really they are likely the company that can now decide the Amiga future and just felt they could and should aim higher (with regards to the A500 mini vs a pi400) and with there Amiga forever product.

Why do I care what they do? Because I still want the Amiga to be successful and grow, call me an idiot, idealistic, or fool but I still want a future for the platform. Yes I know no matter what happens the community usually answers the calls and finds away of pushing the platform forward with or without the legal owners involved, like Vampire + aros/Apollo os. But just imagine if they did get involved and actually helped and not hindered projects and where a little more ambitious with there products and partnerships.

Last edited by amigang on 03-Feb-2022 at 10:49 PM.

_________________
AmigaNG, YouTube, LeaveReality Studio

All I have to add is,

never stand in front of a mirror and say Trevor Dickinson, Trevor Dickinson, Trevor Dickinson

_________________
I HAVE ABS OF STEEL
--
CAN YOU SEE ME? CAN YOU HEAR ME? OK FOR WORK

@amigang

I have two programs from Cloanto which I found very useful.
Amiga Explorer and Personal Paint.

The Amiga Explorer networking software makes it possible to access the resources of an Amiga computer from a Windows PC system.

Amiga Explorer allowed me to transfer files from my ancient A2000HD over serial interface to my PC, where I burned some old Amiga favourites to a CD-RW disc (as a backup to the original floppy disks).

Later, I discovered how to use Amiga Explorer to connect the PC over ethernet to my MicroA1. In the early days of OS4, this PC became my primary backup device for my MicroA1, until I discovered MakeCD and AmiDVD.

---
redfox

Last edited by redfox on 03-Feb-2022 at 11:24 PM.

@all

There have been alot of players in the past, alot of shell games, smoke and mirrors, announcements and vapour.

I can't do anything about the legal stuff, so I prefer to simply enjoy my hobbies.


redfox

Last edited by redfox on 03-Feb-2022 at 11:53 PM.

@LadyJane

Quote:

A crook? ...

Don't be too hard on 'em. Many Amigans are a cheap date.
All one needs to do is show a little red & white checkered sock and they swoon.

Last edited by agami on 04-Feb-2022 at 02:34 AM.

_________________
All the way, with 68k

@number6

Quote:

Too much talk about "what each party could have done or should be doing" You are wrong about this.

It's not about being right or wrong.
Looking from the outside in, we're just saying that it feels like Cloanto is missing out on opportunities and they kind of should be doing more.

_________________
All the way, with 68k

@agami

Pentti Kouri lost more money than he made and died with unpaid creditors to the tune off tens of millions of dollars! Trevor is involved in Investment Angels and uses his wealth from the oil industry to do good. Our respect for him is far deeper than a chequered pair of socks

Steve Jobs was an absolute tool but out leaders firstly Jay Miner, then Dave Haynie (even though 'just' an engineer), then David Pleasance/Petro and now Trevor/Mike are all great, inspiring and relatable people!

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@BigD

It's 3 am, friend BigD.

Can I picture you, eyeballs checkered in red patches just like the oh so sacred Amiga boing ball?
Yes I can.

Might I suggest you to sleep instead, rest and heal, so that you are strong and able to face the perils before you?
I certainly might.

Shall you awake in enlightened and repentant realization that you called Trevor and Mike great and relatable people?

Great and relatable people. Those half-conmen, half-graverobbers mounds of walking trash feasting on rotten cadavers' ichor to quench their bottomless lust for self aggrandizement?

You probably shan't.

Go to sleep.

_________________
I HAVE ABS OF STEEL
--
CAN YOU SEE ME? CAN YOU HEAR ME? OK FOR WORK

@BigD

Judge an entire life by its final act?

So Trevor has millions, meaning he could have done vastly more in the Amiga revival space, yet he made sure that the funding was constrained to hundreds of thousands at a time.

And what good doing did we get from such a do-gooder over the past decade and change? About a thousand users were overcharged for a piece of turn-of-the-millennium tech. Should I call the Millennium Technology Prize committee now, or should I give it a couple of weeks until the A1222 comes out?

I'm not saying he is evil. I'm sure he's a very nice guy, and probably decent company to have a pint with down at the pub, but he is no saint.

_________________
All the way, with 68k

@amigang

Quote:

Guys, turning this thread into a mud slinging contest of who out of the last few remaining Amiga player throw the most mud is not that productive.

Agreed, and I am glad that this third page is a bit more positive.

I note though that while you did make some constructive comments, you also sometimes make inaccurate if not incendiary statements/posts yourself. Not correcting them after you know better may contribute to the flames?

Like when you recently claimed that there was a lawsuit with Amico (there never was), or when a couple of days ago you wrote "Look like Hyperion might loose rights to the AmigaOne name" (wrong, Hyperion has the right to use the name under the 2009 agreement, which right was never disputed or at risk for anyone, most definitely not Hyperion or A-EON), or now this "Cloanto has secured the rights to the Amiga brand for nearly three years now" (Cloanto played no role in this, yet your clickbait page is still there, unchanged).

@LadyJane:

Quote:

Trevor IS Hyperion.

Sorry, but that is BS.

Trevor never sued Amiga Inc. or Cloanto - on the contrary he is a good friend of Michael (Cloanto/Amiga Corp.). And he has nothing to do with the lawsuits between Hyperion/Amiga Inc./Cloanto.

He also is NOT involved in Hyperion in the slightest way as Ben Hermanns is the one and only shareholder and director.

Last edited by AP on 04-Feb-2022 at 01:01 PM.
Last edited by AP on 04-Feb-2022 at 01:01 PM.

_________________
AmigaOne X5000/40, 2.2 Ghz, 4 GB RAM, Radeon R9 280X, M-Audio Revolution 5.1, 240 GB SSD

@AP

Quote:

Trevor never sued Amiga Inc. or Cloanto... And he has nothing to do with the lawsuits between Hyperion/Amiga Inc./Cloanto.

Not true. He provided to Hyperion the money in 2007 to go ahead with the legal case against Amiga, which allowed Hyperion to win the case after Amiga's investor died. That money is still used by Hyperion (it was a loan, but Trevor allowed Hyperion to keep it also during the current lawsuits) in the current lawsuits against Amiga and Cloanto. By controlling his money, Trevor could have not started this, or he could have ended it at any time. If you listen to his money, he obviously wanted to fuel the war against Amiga, and he did not want it to end.

Quote:

He also is NOT involved in Hyperion in the slightest way

Also not true: Trevor is a Hyperion shareholder, with rights and obligations under Belgian law no matter how small or big his company ownership is. He also is Hyperion's biggest money lender. And he has a secret (because the other Hyperion shareholders don't have access to it) "free everything" contract with Hyperion (the "worldwide, perpetual, royalty free licence" was also confirmed by Trevor here), which directly benefits his A-EON company.

Quote:

on the contrary he is a good friend of Michael (Cloanto/Amiga Corp.)

That's another strange claim to make. If he was his friend, why is he backing the lawsuits against Cloanto and Amiga?

Last edited by LadyJane on 04-Feb-2022 at 03:22 PM.
Last edited by LadyJane on 04-Feb-2022 at 03:21 PM.

@LadyJane

Quote:

That's another strange claim to make. If he was his friend, why is he backing the lawsuits against Cloanto and Amiga?

AP is A-EON contractor so no surprise that he tries to spin anything negative...

@thread

Just a general statement about personal relationships expressed in this thread.

(1) I neither see direct quotations or links to same, so I know not where much of this comes from. Is it possible the only people left around here assume all readers are acquainted fully with the past?

(2)Relationships here obviously changed over time. For every friendship one -could- cite, there are likely citations that exist that express the exact opposite about the -same- relationship.

(3)In that vein, without dates for said quotations the status of the relationship can not be put into context with the timeline of events. Clearly the relationships have evolved/changed over time.

(4)Finally, words are just words and do not necessarily represent the truth. Many will claim they have no issues with anyone else in order to suppress additional issues.

But please continue expressing how everyone feels about everyone else, as I find it amusing. heh.

#6

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This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

@agami

Quote:

@BigD Judge an entire life by its final act? So Trevor has millions, meaning he could have done vastly more in the Amiga revival space, yet he made sure that the funding was constrained to hundreds of thousands at a time. And what good doing did we get from such a do-gooder over the past decade and change? About a thousand users were overcharged for a piece of turn-of-the-millennium tech. Should I call the Millennium Technology Prize committee now, or should I give it a couple of weeks until the A1222 comes out? I'm not saying he is evil. I'm sure he's a very nice guy, and probably decent company to have a pint with down at the pub, but he is no saint.

+1

@LadyJane

Quote:

sometimes make inaccurate if not incendiary statements/posts yourself. Not correcting them after you know better may contribute to the flames?

sorry if i get things wrong, will try and do better.

Quote:

Like when you recently claimed that there was a lawsuit with Amico (there never was),

Ture, I may of got the terminology wrong, but Cloanto was still opposing the registration of the trademark 'Amico' by Intellivision Entertainment. So that was likely the point I was making, but your right, I will try to be more careful in the future.

Quote:

"Look like Hyperion might loose rights to the AmigaOne name" (wrong, Hyperion has the right to use the name under the 2009 agreement, which right was never disputed or at risk for anyone, most definitely not Hyperion or A-EON)

Hyperion has a trademark to the AmigaONE name, Cloanto and Amiga Corp are saying they cant have that trademark they can only license it, so Hyperion may loose rights to it. Correct?

Quote:

Cloanto has secured the rights to the Amiga brand for nearly three years now" (Cloanto played no role in this, yet your clickbait page is still there, unchanged).

? I dont really understand this last line, but any way

Look all the legal stuff and all who did what and when and who owns what's and rights and who blocking this trademark and who owns that trademarks, who not allowing this to happen and other third parties / commitments must be done first ...blah blah. I am kind of bored of it all really, what I want to know is as an Amiga fan what are they doing to make the platform better.

I know many attack Trevor, but he supported and supports a lot of Amiga efforts, amiga 30th, magazines, many kickstarters and software bounties, and brought us X1000 & x5000 and loads more) hell this very website and amiga.org might not be still online if he hadn't of step up and supported it, so that alone is worth a lot to me as these are really great community sites and be big lost to me if they had closed. so I think again guys credit where credit due he put a lot of money into the Amiga market.

Last edited by amigang on 04-Feb-2022 at 05:46 PM.
Last edited by amigang on 04-Feb-2022 at 05:30 PM.

_________________
AmigaNG, YouTube, LeaveReality Studio

@amigang

Quote:

Hyperion has a trademark to the AmigaONE name

They have a new application under objection. Short version:

This is basically a resubmission of the original suspended application with a narrowing required by uspto.

complete history

Basically Hyperion had filed in the U.S. (uspto) for AmigaOne.
It then reached a point where it was "suspended", meaning it was not granted registration nor being considered for reasons stated.
Suspension checks were performed at regular intervals and all parties informed of no change in status.
Then a different notice appeared citing that if and when "Amiga" became registered, a conflict of interest in naming might exist at that point.
Finally "Amiga" did register (Amiga Corporation) and notice that this was going to trademark attorney at uspto because the conflict was now a considered reality.
Next uspto informed the parties of a "partial refusal" and outlined both the "why" and how this could be addressed along with a timeframe for same.
Next we see the resubmission that you mentioned earlier in this thread, following the uspto stated guidelines and timeframe.

Sorry not to link each statement I've made this time, but it is all in the historical link above.
If the complete list of docs does not appear, merely click "documents" (under "search" at top) and "expand all" (under Trademark Documents).

If anyone objects to my characterization of the above, don't hesitate to respond.
Edits for horrid spelling and grammar.

#6

Last edited by number6 on 04-Feb-2022 at 06:57 PM.

_________________
This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

#6 Quote:

Just a general statement about personal relationships expressed in this thread. (1) I neither see direct quotations or links to same, so I know not where much of this comes from. Is it possible the only people left around here assume all readers are acquainted fully with the past?

To be fair, LadyJane did post a link and the content covers quite a bit of this conversation with further links to corroborating evidence.

https://sites.google.com/site/amigadocuments/#TOC-Hyperion-Entertainment-and-the-Robbery-of-the-AmigaOS-

More information is available as evidence with the current lawsuits. I believe part of the problem is that some of the allegations are so bizarre.

Trevor Dickinson claims to have negotiated some kind of deal after business money was inappropriately used (stolen) by Ben Hermans and he threatened to go to the police. Later, Trevor Dickinson owns shares in Hyperion and his company A-Eon obtains ownership of Hyperion software. Even later, Hyperion was forced into bankruptcy only to find some spare cash and claim there was a clerical mistake. Trevor Dickinson and Ben Hermans have business ties and it is reasonable to believe that Trevor has provided funding for Hyperion.

There is strong evidence that Amiga Inc. paid all of the original agreed to money to develop AmigaOS 4 to Hyperion. It looks like Hyperion asked for more for additional work and enhancements which they also received but it was a delaying tactic (Hyperion specialty) with no intention to give the source code to Amiga Inc. When Amiga Inc. was in financial distress after the death of their biggest financier Pentti Kouri, Ben Hermans swooped in with threats and negotiated a contract he wrote on his own terms giving Hyperion more control over AmigaOS 4 than the owner.

Ben Herman's arrogance has no limits after his 2009 contract agreement with Amiga Inc. He moved in on Cloanto's emulation and reemerging 68k business and violated the one sided agreement he created by doing one of the few things in the agreement which was forbidden to him which was to challenge the ownership of Amiga Inc. IP. Michele Battilana, head of Cloanto, strategically purchased Amiga Inc. IP for or with a new Amiga corporation and sued Hyperion for the transgressions Amiga Inc. did not have the funding to defend. An arrogant bully can only push so hard before someone gets smart and pushes back hard at the opportune time.

Ben Hermans and Trevor Dickinson are tolerated as robin hood like figures stealing from the rich and ignorant Amiga Inc. and distributing the stolen benefits of AmigaOS 4 to the users. The robin hood syndrome allows people to overlook the illegality and immorality of their actions. Since Amigaworld.net has historically been AmigaOS 4 leaning, it is easy to see this bias in this thread. It is not so much about verifying accusations anymore as the court lawsuits have brought forth much evidence. Still, LadyJane seems to be arguing from one side while others support and defend Ben and Trevor. While the Amiga Inc. plans for the Amiga were flawed, so was the PPC niche market direction that Ben and Trevor chose. It is obvious now yet the robin hood syndrome persists. Maybe Amiga users will see more clearly after a court ruling but I can see why Amiga Corporation is reluctant to do more now even though they likely could.

#6 Quote:

Basically Hyperion had filed in the U.S. (uspto) for AmigaOne.

"AmigaOne" is a variation of "Amiga"? Perhaps "AmigaOne" is even a challenge of IP ownership to the trademark holder of "Amiga"? Is this a surprise to anyone?

Last edited by matthey on 04-Feb-2022 at 08:41 PM.
Last edited by matthey on 04-Feb-2022 at 08:13 PM.

@matthey

Enjoyable post.

Quote:

He moved in on Cloanto's emulation

That is the most egregious of all imo. Even the most ardent Hyperion supporters always granted that emulation was Cloanto's domain.
As mentioned in the "Neuss notes" this was the last straw and utterly understandable.

Quote:

"AmigaOne" is a variation of "Amiga"?

Confusion of terms according to uspto. whereas I used the term "conflict" in my summary, but it's basically the same thing.

Off-topic: I note the topic in individual postings has changed several times. So, additional disclaimer. Since a reply to any poster includes the topic change line (it's how the content management system for AW works), people should be aware that said changes do not necessarily express an agreement as to what the topic should be. In addition, only the OP can change the topic that shows on the home page by changing the original post topic.

#6

Last edited by number6 on 04-Feb-2022 at 08:47 PM.
Last edited by number6 on 04-Feb-2022 at 08:45 PM.

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@amigang

Love the new subject

Quote:

Hyperion has a trademark to the AmigaONE name, Cloanto and Amiga Corp are saying they cant have that trademark they can only license it, so Hyperion may loose rights to it. Correct?

No

Cloanto is not involved. Only Amiga Corp. and the 2009 Amiga parties are (because Hyperion is still refusing to accept the new entity).

Hyperion does not have or need a trademark, nor do they need a license to it, because they already have a license to use the same under the 2009 agreement.

One theory is that someone at Hyperion wanted to register a few trademarks so that they could appear as an asset of value in the books. That is the only disaster that might happen to Hyperion if they lost all these trademarks: their tower of intangible assets, which is used to balance real debt, could crumble. But it would have no effect on the license they have (or which their sublicensee A-EON has) to use "AmigaOne", which no Amiga party ever challenged.

As for why A-EON removed the "AmigaOne" trademarks, maybe it's because someone doesn't want the secret "free everything" agreement between Trevor and Hyperion to be revealed?

Quote:

I dont really understand this last line, but any way

The "clickbait" part? I was referring to the post where you seemed happy about all the page visits you were getting with this misleading (wrong) title. Apologies though, I am appreciating this exchange, I did not intend to offend.

Quote:

blah blah. I am kind of bored of it all really, what I want to know is as an Amiga fan what are they doing to make the platform better.

OK, but before you name names, it's good to know who is who? It's not difficult (unless you believe those who prefer to make it seem impossibly complex, as if it could help sell a few more of their own books).

@matthey

Quote:

Michele Battilana, head of Cloanto, strategically purchased Amiga Inc. IP for or with a new Amiga corporation and sued Hyperion for the transgressions Amiga Inc. did not have the funding to defend.

Seems correct, except that the acquisition was in 2019, whereas Hyperion by then had already sued all three Amiga Parties (Amiga/Amino/Itec) under the 2009 Settlement Agreement. The intent of Hyperion's multiple lawsuits most likely was that if even only one of the parties was to default, Hyperion could trigger a "catch all" clause in the 2009 agreement. Instead, the incumbent Amiga Parties were so tired of all the lawsuits that they sold the assets to Mike, who went on to defend Amiga.

Quote:

"AmigaOne" is a variation of "Amiga"?

It escapes me now, but AFAIK there is a different technical/legal name, when one mark includes another.