@syrtran

Quote:

syrtran wrote: @Lou Quote: So multiple people telling you that your logic is incorrect and... multiple people telling him that his logic is just fine. Sounds like a web forum to me.

Here's where his logic bites:
If Hyperion didn't need the 3.5 & 3.9 sources to make OS4, then why does KMOS?
Why can't they pay Olaf for his 3.1 CVS code and create their own OS4 successor?

Surely by HIS logic, KMOS can simply take 3.1, study the functionality of OS4 and then reproduce OS4 and enhance it, correct?

What would be KMOS' excuse to not partake in such an endeavor? Could it be TIME and MONEY? ... Now who would have thought that? I mean, seriously now - who would have thought that producing an upgrade to an OS without all the proper documentations would cost additional time and money?

I'm sure their first problem would be paying Olaf. It seems they can pay lawyers (though Reed & Smith may raise an eyebrow), but when it comes to paying employees & developers, that's where the problems begin for that bunch.

So you see, just as Amiga didn't need to provide the source code to Hyperion in order for them to create a successor to the OS3.X line, KMOS doens't need the source code to OS4 in order to create a successor to a successor to the OS3.X line since they already have the original 3.1 sources.

So let's put it this way: If B is a derivative of C and A is a derivative of B, then A is a derivative of C. Where C is 3.1, B is OS4 and A is OS4's "significantly improved version" due 6 months after OS4's completion from "Amiga" per the contract.

So I expect KMOS to release OS4.5(or 5.0) in late May of this year, or else, Hyperions can continue to develop the OS4.X line...

Last edited by Lou on 29-Feb-2008 at 12:19 PM.
Last edited by Lou on 29-Feb-2008 at 12:18 PM.

@damocles

Quote:

damocles wrote: @Dandy ... Hyperion deserves not a single ounce of respect from any OS4 supporters, the OS4 Devs deserves it all.

Yeah - that must be why the "father of the OS4 Devs" - Rogue - stated:

Quote:

Rogue wrote: Our relationship to Hyperion is unchanged since years, it's a good one and I don't see much reason to change that anytime soon. ... So, everybody trying to badmouth Hyperion using the lawsuit that we started, please stop it right there. There is no substance to it. We're not being misused or ill-treated or any such nonsense, and we are not asking for payment or damages. ... EDIT: And BTW, Dammy, no this is not about any contractual dispute. Read what I wrote here, and you might understand. If not... well.. At least I tried.

Quote:

damocles wrote: ... Hyperion was suppost to be there for the Devs, instead they took advantage of the Devs

Hmmmm - Rogue's statement does not seem to imply in any way the Devs felt abused...

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damocles wrote: and created today's disaster.

That's your interpretation of the current situation.
I've more got the feeling they're trying to clear the disaster up that the masters of disasters - AInc. - created so far...

Quote:

damocles wrote: Hyperion has left the Devs owed tens and hundreds of thousands for their work, and I seriously doubt they will ever see any of it. Way to go Hyperion!

If the devs felt this way I'm sure they'd filed a claim at court concerning this matter in the meantime - don't you think so?

_________________
Ciao

Dandy
__________________________________________
If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him.
He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him!
(Albert Einstein)

@Step

Actually you as a contractor would own the home. I had a couple that contracted with meto build them a home on their property. They got a divorce during construction. When finished neither party wanted to sign at closing. I was awarded a lien so neither party could take posession, and when sold I was paid in full with interest.


@Lou

As a building contractor I find your posts on building contracts quite humorus. That is why we can't let this thread die, I have invested too much in the popcorn industry.
You are quite right that we will make no difference in the outcome with our rantings, but we may feel a little better by letting off a little steam. So here goes

AInc acted like crooks and stole peoples money (Tronman, Landlord and I am sure there are others) Treated Hyperion badly and tried to take advantage of them Down with Ainc. Lied to their community.

Eyetech was a bunch money grubbing incompetents. There mb is junk and came with no service or warranty. It was broken from the get go and they lied to cover it up, of course they could have been too stupid to know they were lying.

Hyperion made up a stupid contract with AInc in order to steal the OS. Either the plan was to wait Ainc out into insolvency from the beginning or they were too incompetent to finish the project close to schedule. Looks to me more like a plan when you add in the no longer needed source code they already had but put in the contract anyway. They made no effort to get source code but hey that no effort was their best right? They also released the OS quietly and coded the wording of release with names like developer prerelease so Ainc would not notice that the 6mo had started. They also sent out a reciept that mistakenly stated the AInc had payed in full, but hey too bad for AInc the time is up and you did not pay in full, you should have kept your own accounting is their reply.

Did I miss anyone? I do feel better now off to work I go as I whistle a merry tune. I may have problems but they don't seem so bad now for some strange reason

Last edited by stew on 29-Feb-2008 at 01:09 PM.

@Dandy

Quote:

Yeah - that must be why the "father of the OS4 Devs" - Rogue - stated:

If Rogue is happy that he is owed 3/4 of a million EUROs, more power to him.

Quote:

Hmmmm - Rogue's statement does not seem to imply in any way the Devs felt abused...

Question is, does he have much of a choice in the matter? I suppose if I were in his shoes, I'd be pubically backing Hyperion as well. It's highly questionable right now if AI-DE will continue on with OS4 developement if AI-DE (or Itec) wins and that would leave him being owed 3/4M EUROs by Hyperion. Rogue is of course entilted to his opinion, question is how does Olaf feel about getting 10% of what he was promised six years ago?

Quote:

That's your interpretation of the current situation. I've more got the feeling they're trying to clear the disaster up that the masters of disasters - AInc. - created so far...

Problem is, it's Hyperion's disaster from their own mismagement.

Quote:

If the devs felt this way I'm sure they'd filed a claim at court concerning this matter in the meantime - don't you think so?

One law suit has been filed, can we expect more with financial demands in the future? As I stated above, if you were a Dev owned significant amount of money, would you hope Hyperion wins or AI wins and not shelve the entire project? Again, why did Hyperion allow this to go this badly and not look out for their Devs?

_________________
Dammy

@Dandy

Good stuff.
People need to realize Amino started this mess when they chose to ignore classic line. Were it not for Hyperion's desire(even if that desire actually came from it's contractors) to see the classic line evolved, OS4.0 would not exist and we would have been sheeped into buying AmigaDE space invaders clones for niche PDA's proclaiming that as the next-gen Amiga.

The the floor fell out from under them (Tao) and then they try to rip the OS out from under the developers hands because of a loosely worded contract in order to continue to fool investors into thinking they have something worth investing in.

They continued this mess by limiting OS4's marketability when they refused to license new hardware. By limiting distribution, once again, developers could not be paid. If total sales of OS4 are ~2000, taking into account A1's and let's say there are 25 developers, each making perhaps $2 per sale, I'm using made up numbers by the way, that limited their income to a measly $4,000.00.

So by not licensing new hardware, it was Amiga(Amino/KMOS, whomever) that wasn't allowing developers to be paid. It's commonly understood that developers are getting paid royalties based on sales and not fixed fees, though their may have been some of those as well, so ask yourself - "Since OS4 has been released to the public, who is stopping developers from getting paid?" The answer is simple - expand the hardware market for OS4 and you expand the sales of OS4 and developers get paid. Ask ACUBE and others what Amiga Inc.'s response to getting a hardware license for OS4 has been.

Does anyone seriously believe that IF OS4's source code is handed over to KMOS for the measly sum of $25,000.00 that KMOS is going to turn around and donate money to it's developers without a prior contract?

[fantasy land]Ah yes, KMOS, the great philanthropists - once they win the lawsuit, that $2,000,000 they "offered" Hyperion will be spilt amongst the developers of OS4.[/fantasy land]
(...hours...maybe days later, the effects of the substance within the package I receive from umisef wears off..) Wtf was I thinking?

Last edited by Lou on 29-Feb-2008 at 01:36 PM.
Last edited by Lou on 29-Feb-2008 at 01:34 PM.
Last edited by Lou on 29-Feb-2008 at 01:20 PM.

@Rogue

Since you edited this and replied to me (and it's being requoted to me), I'll reply even at this late date.

Quote:

Our relationship to Hyperion is unchanged since years, it's a good one and I don't see much reason to change that anytime soon.

They owe you 3/4M EUROs from what I've been reading of the court documents. If AI-DE or Itec wins against Evert, do you feel you two will still get paid the 3/4M EUROs?

Quote:

I am not going to get drawn into any of these ridiculous discussions here, but I will say only the following:

I'd say it's pretty ridiculous that Hyperion has been allowed to keep this nightmare running for six years with their mismanagement as their debts to Devs must have surely exceeded their VOF's networth.

Quote:

The lawsuit that we have going is merely asking for a declaratory judgment on the copyright of our respective source codes. It does neither seek damages, nor payment, nor anything else of that kind. The lawsuit asks the involved parties for a clear statement of ownership/copyright which is legally binding. Nothing more, nothing less. So, everybody trying to badmouth Hyperion using the lawsuit that we started, please stop it right there. There is no substance to it. We're not being misused or ill-treated or any such nonsense, and we are not asking for payment or damages.

Because if you did, that would drive Hyperion VOF into liquidation and you would be stuck with a orphan OS kernel and still owed hundreds of thousands of EUROs. If not the full 3/4M EUROs since I doubt Hyperion VOF is worth more then $50K EUROs at this point in time, if that.

Quote:

EDIT: And BTW, Dammy, no this is not about any contractual dispute. Read what I wrote here, and you might understand. If not... well.. At least I tried.

Yeah, I sue my buds all the time. No, really! Speaking of sueing buds, I need to go pay a software developer who has released his port of port of TeX. Image that, a developer getting paid at the completion of his project. Think that could ever catch on with Hyperion? Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!

_________________
Dammy

@damocles

Quote:

damocles wrote: @Rogue I'd say it's pretty ridiculous that Hyperion has been allowed to keep this nightmare running for six years with their mismanagement as their debts to Devs must have surely exceeded their VOF's networth.

I'd say the same thing of Bill McEwen's management of Amino and KMOS. What are they worth these days?
$88,000,000+
I feel sorry for the investors whom they duped into believing that they had actual products... Well, if their main product is announcements of vaporware, then I guess they are pretty good at that.
- Amiga: The Blair Witch Project of the IT industry.

Quote:

Because if you did, that would drive Hyperion VOF into liquidation and you would be stuck with a orphan OS kernel and still owed hundreds of thousands of EUROs.

I suppose then he would be free to find another market for that kernal and make money elsewhere.

@Lou

Quote:

Lou wrote: Here's what I know is true: they admit to being $250 short. Here's what else I think: they BOTH need better bookkeepers. Again, your opinion of what should have happened is meaningless, it's all about what the judge thinks of it...which we won't know for some time.

So you got called on the mortgage story, and decided to go elsewhere, because you and I both know that my version of the mortgage story is the only one that doesnt have to start with "Once Upon a Time". They dont both admit to being $250 short Lou. They both agree that Hyperion received $2500, then $2250 and finally $20,000 in 2003 and that in early 2004 Hyperion sent a receipt for the wrong amount backdated to Dec 2003. Thats you $250 short number. What you keep not wanting to count is the $7200 that KMOS sent them in May of 2006 as part of the request to get the OS and the $8850 they sent them in Nov of 2006 as part of the negotiations to get this settled outside a courtroom. That takes the amount to over $40K, throw in the $25K check from June 2007, and thats over $65K. So no, only Hyperion (and Lou) is claiming that they were $250 short. If you want to argue something, argue that they are late, its almost as silly, but you dont have to argue that $40K or $65K is less then $25K if you pick that particular dead horse.
-Tig

_________________
We played the first thing that came to our heads, it just happened to be the best song in the world.

@Tigger

Quote:

Tigger wrote: @Lou Quote: Lou wrote: Here's what I know is true: they admit to being $250 short. Here's what else I think: they BOTH need better bookkeepers. Again, your opinion of what should have happened is meaningless, it's all about what the judge thinks of it...which we won't know for some time. So you got called on the mortgage story, and decided to go elsewhere, because you and I both know that my version of the mortgage story is the only one that doesnt have to start with "Once Upon a Time". They dont both admit to being $250 short Lou. They both agree that Hyperion received $2500, then $2250 and finally $20,000 in 2003 and that in early 2004 Hyperion sent a receipt for the wrong amount backdated to Dec 2003. Thats you $250 short number. What you keep not wanting to count is the $7200 that KMOS sent them in May of 2006 as part of the request to get the OS and the $8850 they sent them in Nov of 2006 as part of the negotiations to get this settled outside a courtroom. That takes the amount to over $40K, throw in the $25K check from June 2007, and thats over $65K. So no, only Hyperion (and Lou) is claiming that they were $250 short. If you want to argue something, argue that they are late, its almost as silly, but you dont have to argue that $40K or $65K is less then $25K if you pick that particular dead horse. -Tig

Any you keep ingnoring prior invoices for work Hyperion did on AmigaDE which is why they are back to being $250 short.

As for my story with the mortgage or any you make up, shouldn't they all start with "Once upon a time..."?
For instance: "Once upon a time, KMOS paid Hyperion $40,000 of OS4..."
then there's "Once upon a time, KMOS offered '2 [Dr. Evil voice and pinky near lip]meeelllion dollars' for OS4."

Last edited by Lou on 29-Feb-2008 at 02:11 PM.
Last edited by Lou on 29-Feb-2008 at 02:09 PM.

@stew

Quote:

stew wrote: @Step Actually you as a contractor would own the home. I had a couple that contracted with meto build them a home on their property. They got a divorce during construction. When finished neither party wanted to sign at closing. I was awarded a lien so neither party could take posession, and when sold I was paid in full with interest.

This is one of my points. People don't understand the concept of leins.
I had to sue a mechanic over his incompetence despite a previouslt agreed upon cost and work to be done that he never finished. He withheld my car for over a year on a lein until the matter was settled with lawyers. This is what Hyperion can and is doing.

Quote:

@Lou As a building contractor I find your posts on building contracts quite humorus. That is why we can't let this thread die, I have invested too much in the popcorn industry. You are quite right that we will make no difference in the outcome with our rantings, but we may feel a little better by letting off a little steam. So here goes AInc acted like crooks and stole peoples money (Tronman, Landlord and I am sure there are others) Treated Hyperion badly and tried to take advantage of them Down with Ainc. Lied to their community. Eyetech was a bunch money grubbing incompetents. There mb is junk and came with no service or warranty. It was broken from the get go and they lied to cover it up, of course they could have been too stupid to know they were lying. Hyperion made up a stupid contract with AInc in order to steal the OS. Either the plan was to wait Ainc out into insolvency from the beginning or they were too incompetent to finish the project close to schedule. Looks to me more like a plan when you add in the no longer needed source code they already had but put in the contract anyway. They made no effort to get source code but hey that no effort was their best right? They also released the OS quietly and coded the wording of release with names like developer prerelease so Ainc would not notice that the 6mo had started. They also sent out a reciept that mistakenly stated the AInc had payed in full, but hey too bad for AInc the time is up and you did not pay in full, you should have kept your own accounting is their reply. Did I miss anyone? I do feel better now off to work I go as I whistle a merry tune. I may have problems but they don't seem so bad now for some strange reason

The thing about the contract is that, from the beginning, it was written so that Hyperion could continue to develop Amiga OS4 because Amino had no interest in it and if they wanted to "sell" that interest, which is what they did with KMOS, they needed approval from Hyperion and Eyetech.
Normally, one sells something to make a money. Now if the AmigaOS trademarks were indeed for sale, why did they not go to the highest bidder? Because their were no bidders. Hyperion wasn't given the opportunity to gather VC funding to buy it. What happened was a shell game and their business was damaged by that sale.
Infact, it probably would have been smarter for ITEC to have loaned Hyperion the money that Amino was in need of in exchange for the necessary trademarks and leave the AmigaDE/Anywhere/Nowhere trademarks with Amino. Then atleast the OS's ownership would have been all under one roof and investors still make money rather than the situation we have today. If Hyperion couldn't make the loan payments, ITEC/Penti could have still acquired the IP & OS on a security creditor claim for defaulting on the loan. At that point, they could have spawned KMOS...

Last edited by Lou on 29-Feb-2008 at 02:34 PM.

@Lou

Quote:

Lou wrote: Any you keep ingnoring prior invoices for work Hyperion did on AmigaDE which is why they are back to being $250 short.

First of all the only prior invoice we have seen is for $5K, whether that has been paid, may be a point of contention, but $5K+$25K = $30K which less then over $40K, and even more less then $65K, so again we arent short, also the $5K is a debt owned by Amino, the OS was bought by Itec, surely you dont think Itec owes all of AI's bills?

Quote:

For instance: "Once upon a time, KMOS paid Hyperion $40,000 of OS4..." then there's "Once upon a time, KMOS offered '2 [Dr. Evil voice and pinky near lip]meeelllion dollars' for OS4."

Actually according to the documents presented (and not contradicted) both of those are absolutely true except technically it wasnt KMOS who paid $40K for the OS, but a group of people who include KMOS, though KMOS is the current owner.
-Tig

Last edited by Tigger on 29-Feb-2008 at 03:54 PM.

_________________
We played the first thing that came to our heads, it just happened to be the best song in the world.

@Lou

Quote:

Lou wrote: The thing about the contract is that, from the beginning, it was written so that Hyperion could continue to develop Amiga OS4 because Amino had no interest in it and if they wanted to "sell" that interest, which is what they did with KMOS, they needed approval from Hyperion and Eyetech.

You seem to be glossing over the entire Hyperion sold the OS to Itec part of history in your dramatic reenactment, and skipping the whole Hyperion did that because they were in danger of bankruptcy and needed the money before the finished the OS.

Quote:

Normally, one sells something to make a money. Now if the AmigaOS trademarks were indeed for sale, why did they not go to the highest bidder? Because their were no bidders. Hyperion wasn't given the opportunity to gather VC funding to buy it.

This is some awesome stuff, Hyperion has to sell the OS early to get $25K to stave off bankruptcy (and later borrow more money from Alan to again stave of bankruptcy), but a VC is going to flock to them to outbid the mid 7 figure amount Amino got for the trademarks, yeah I think that would happen



Quote:

What happened was a shell game and their business was damaged by that sale. Infact, it probably would have been smarter for ITEC to have loaned Hyperion the money that Amino was in need of in exchange for the necessary trademarks and leave the AmigaDE/Anywhere/Nowhere trademarks with Amino. Then atleast the OS's ownership would have been all under one roof and investors still make money rather than the situation we have today. If Hyperion couldn't make the loan payments, ITEC/Penti could have still acquired the IP & OS on a security creditor claim for defaulting on the loan. At that point, they could have spawned KMOS...

Instead Itec bought the OS from Hyperion (but didnt get it delivered), not sure why loaning money to Hyperion (a company we now know is over a million in debt) is better then buying something from them, at least this way they can sue them in New York and get the property. And everything is owned by one company, thats KMOS, we are just waiting for the courts to make that official while Hyperion works on Death Rattle 3.0. They own the OS, the IP, the Trademarks and the websites, and they have money.
-Tig

Last edited by Tigger on 29-Feb-2008 at 04:27 PM.

_________________
We played the first thing that came to our heads, it just happened to be the best song in the world.

@stew Quote:

Hyperion made up a stupid contract with AInc in order to steal the OS. Either the plan was to wait Ainc out into insolvency

I don't know why some people keep perpetuating this myth - I can only assume that they weren't around (or not paying much attention) when the infamous OS4 contract was signed.

I was there when Fleecy/etc signed that contract at an Amiga show. It was *well advertised* that the contract contained the clause that Hyperion would get ownership of OS4 if Amiga Inc went bankrupt. Which made perfect sense at the time, because at that point (a) Amiga Inc was very tight on cash (after the Dot Com bubble burst) and you could easily imagine them going under, and (b) Hyperion were footing the complete bill for OS4 since AI couldn't afford to (and were focused on AmigaDE).

There is absolutely no need for paranoid delusions about anyone trying to steal anything at that point in time. A few years later, when the original plan was shot to hell, sure you can imagine that one or both sides stopped acting in good faith, but that was long after the contract was signed.

_________________
Author of the PortablE programming language.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

@samface

Quote:

That's complete BS. Hyperion didn't complete their obligation to develop for the specified hardware of the contract until 30th of November last year. You can't expect Amiga Inc. to grant Hyperion the right to develop and market for more hardware before they were not even finished developing for hardware they had a contractual obligation to develop for. Besides, if the terms of only having the right to develop for the AmigaOne and the classic Amiga1200/4000 computers were not acceptable terms, they shouldn't have signed the agreement. So, this argument really is complete bullocks. Let's not hear it being repeated again, ok?

The 'specified' esccena based hardware did not come to fruition, and yet Ainc still encouraged Hyperion to continue to develop OS4. Heck, the terms of the contract, encouraged Hyperion to continue to develop OS4.
Remember this was not a 'standard' contract. A provides B, to C, for the sum of D. In this contract there was no sum of D. The contract states that Hyperion would use sales of OS4 to re-coup their development costs, for which AInc would recieved royalties. AInc was unwilling to allow them to do that, even though they would have received royalties for versions greater than 4.0. The Amigaone hardware definition in the contract is actually quite vague, but Hyperion's relationship with AI(W)|KMOS|AI(D) was quite amicable, and up to sometime in 2004 when behind the scene discussions began to rectify this one sided situation. AInc's refusal to allow Hyperion, or the developers if you like, to re-coup their development costs is the reason for the current court case.

Oh! just so that I don't get mis-interpreted, nit-picked, or generally derided, this is my personal opinion, to which I am entitled to hold, and IANAL.

_________________
Peter Swallow.
A1XEG3-800 [IBM 750FX PowerPC], running OS4.1FE, using ac97 onboard sound.

"There are 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't."

@ChrisH

Sure, but you are ignoring something else:

- Hyperion claimed that they could do it in 6 months (or less)
- the contract was based on the Escena-A1, allready long dead&buried at that time
- the contract was based on WarpUp being used as OS4-kernel, something that should have been an obvious nogo after 30 minutes of checking
- Hyperion AGREED to sell the OS4 for 25k, just enough to pay 1 cheap developer for 6 months, not even enough to pay for what Hyperion had allready bought in from external sources.

So it was either an unbelievable scope of incompetence (even in comparision to Amino) or it was something like "sign whatever clauses, they'll go under anytime now and than it will all be ours".

Actually I think it was a fair share of both alternatives

_________________
- We don't need good ideas, we haven't run out on bad ones yet
- blame Canada

@umisef

Quote:

Then the hardware partner gave up (in no small part, one imagines, due to the unavailability of OS4 --- read the recitals in the OS4 contract if in doubt).

My understanding, according to Alan's own word's he was having problem's getting cpu's at the price he had previously negotiated on a call-off contract, because of the extended time it was taking him to call-off the contract.
As far as I am aware, every batch of A1's and micro A1's sold out very quickly. Eyetech's large industrial order did not materialise, therefore Alan had to rely on the Amiga desktop market to generate his revenue for purchasing the cpu's. Chicken and egg situation really, and as shown historically, was unsubstainable.




PROVISO- This is my personal opinion, and IANAL.

_________________
Peter Swallow.
A1XEG3-800 [IBM 750FX PowerPC], running OS4.1FE, using ac97 onboard sound.

"There are 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't."

@Kronos
IMHO both sides were working on a shoe-string budget, they made hasty guestimates about what could be achieved (which turned out to be woefully wrong, and probably based on some bad info), and wrote a quick contract (which turned out to have been badly designed) to get things moving.

Although I don't agree with all your points, incompetence on both sides is quite sufficient an explanation - unless I see compelling evidence to the contrary (e.g. incriminating emails). Developing software to specification & on-time is hard, even when you have enough resources (which was most certainly not the case in this instance).

The real problem came when real life overtook the original plan, and NEITHER side sought to update the contract, or (seemingly) even discuss what had happened.

_________________
Author of the PortablE programming language.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

@Kronos

Quote:

Kronos wrote: @ChrisH Sure, but you are ignoring something else: - Hyperion claimed that they could do it in 6 months (or less) - the contract was based on the Escena-A1, allready long dead&buried at that time - the contract was based on WarpUp being used as OS4-kernel, something that should have been an obvious nogo after 30 minutes of checking - Hyperion AGREED to sell the OS4 for 25k, just enough to pay 1 cheap developer for 6 months, not even enough to pay for what Hyperion had allready bought in from external sources. So it was either an unbelievable scope of incompetence (even in comparision to Amino) or it was something like "sign whatever clauses, they'll go under anytime now and than it will all be ours". Actually I think it was a fair share of both alternatives

Perhaps I have erred in my estimation of Hermans competence. Maybe he was indeed that incompetent and not trying to steal AInc's ip. No matter not the first time I have been wrong.

@Tigger

Quote:

Tigger wrote: @Lou Quote: Lou wrote: Any you keep ingnoring prior invoices for work Hyperion did on AmigaDE which is why they are back to being $250 short. First of all the only prior invoice we have seen is for $5K, whether that has been paid, may be a point of contention, but $5K+$25K = $30K which less then over $40K, and even more less then $65K, so again we arent short, also the $5K is a debt owned by Amino, the OS was bought by Itec, surely you dont think Itec owes all of AI's bills?

IIRC, I believe you are including the payment for the Artic port. Interesting that that was done in 2004...you know when they claimed the OS was done...

Quote:

Quote: For instance: "Once upon a time, KMOS paid Hyperion $40,000 of OS4..." then there's "Once upon a time, KMOS offered '2 [Dr. Evil voice and pinky near lip]meeelllion dollars' for OS4." Actually according to the documents presented (and not contradicted) both of those are absolutely true except technically it wasnt KMOS who paid $40K for the OS, but a group of people who include KMOS, though KMOS is the current owner. -Tig

Yes, yes, I'm sure that email to one of the Friedens where Bill "claimed" the have a $2,000,000 offer ready for Hyperion will be considered "a real offer". I think you need to get yourself pinched to make sure you are not dreaming...

@Tigger

Quote:

Tigger wrote: @Lou Quote: Lou wrote: The thing about the contract is that, from the beginning, it was written so that Hyperion could continue to develop Amiga OS4 because Amino had no interest in it and if they wanted to "sell" that interest, which is what they did with KMOS, they needed approval from Hyperion and Eyetech. You seem to be glossing over the entire Hyperion sold the OS to Itec part of history in your dramatic reenactment, and skipping the whole Hyperion did that because they were in danger of bankruptcy and needed the money before the finished the OS.

And you seem to be glossing over the fact that if they are a million dollars in debt, that $25,000 will not stave it. Why aren't they in bankruptcy now?
If I recall correctly - that was McEwen's story of events. I could be wrong, but that is my recollection. If that's the case, I suppose he could predict tonight's lottery numbers for you and you'd play them, wouldn't you?

Quote:

Quote: Normally, one sells something to make a money. Now if the AmigaOS trademarks were indeed for sale, why did they not go to the highest bidder? Because their were no bidders. Hyperion wasn't given the opportunity to gather VC funding to buy it. This is some awesome stuff, Hyperion has to sell the OS early to get $25K to stave off bankruptcy (and later borrow more money from Alan to again stave of bankruptcy), but a VC is going to flock to them to outbid the mid 7 figure amount Amino got for the trademarks, yeah I think that would happen

see above

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Quote: What happened was a shell game and their business was damaged by that sale. Infact, it probably would have been smarter for ITEC to have loaned Hyperion the money that Amino was in need of in exchange for the necessary trademarks and leave the AmigaDE/Anywhere/Nowhere trademarks with Amino. Then atleast the OS's ownership would have been all under one roof and investors still make money rather than the situation we have today. If Hyperion couldn't make the loan payments, ITEC/Penti could have still acquired the IP & OS on a security creditor claim for defaulting on the loan. At that point, they could have spawned KMOS... Instead Itec bought the OS from Hyperion (but didnt get it delivered), not sure why loaning money to Hyperion (a company we now know is over a million in debt) is better then buying something from them, at least this way they can sue them in New York and get the property. And everything is owned by one company, thats KMOS, we are just waiting for the courts to make that official while Hyperion works on Death Rattle 3.0. They own the OS, the IP, the Trademarks and the websites, and they have money. -Tig

I've already state my theory about the ITEC situation.
If points were only stated once in this thread, it would only be about 4 pages...