Well hello,
i am the one of trolls saying that os4 will never come out, but i was (luckily) wrong. And since os4 is out, me and other trolls have no way of making flame wars, red/blue pills etc... But, we are a resisting kind of ppl, so in a few days except something from us

So, to build new trolls and expand our specie, i need your help. This time, this is no red/blue war but rather something i am REALLY interested:

1. I really, really don't like reaction compared to mui. MOS has native 4.0 mui, is there one for OS4?
2. I read something about os4emu for MOS. As i understood, with it, mos users can start os4 programs. Is it true?
3. Is there something similar for os4? To be able to start MOS programs on OS4 machines?
4. Which one has better JIT?

Why am i asking? I plan buying 'some' amiga, but i am not to give more than $500 for FULL machine. With current prices, second hand pegasos of new efika fits into that. I want to know which os is better, mos or os4... I will wait 2-3 months and then make a decision. If aros gets uae integrated, i will have to put a new option in my choice....

Last edited by Srbin on 24-Dec-2006 at 11:29 PM.

_________________
May the force be with you...

Quote:

Srbin wrote: Well hello, i am the one of trolls saying that os4 will never come out, but i was (luckily) wrong. And since os4 is out, me and other trolls have no way of making flame wars, red/blue pills etc... But, we are a resisting kind of ppl, so in a few days except something from us So, to build new trolls and expand our specie, i need your help. This time, this is no red/blue war but rather something i am REALLY interested: 1. I really, really don't like reaction compared to mui. MOS has native 4.0 mui, is there one for OS4? 2. I read something about os4emu for MOS. As i understood, with it, mos users can start os4 programs. Is it true? 3. Is there something similar for os4? To be able to start MOS programs on OS4 machines? 4. Which one has better JIT? Why am i asking? I plan buying 'some' amiga, but i am not to give more than $500 for FULL machine. With current prices, second hand pegasos of new efika fits into that. I want to know which os is better, mos or os4... I will wait 2-3 months and then make a decision. If aros gets uae integrated, i will have to put a new option in my choice....

1. MUI 4 is being ported to OS4. No timeframe for release is set.
2. Yes it is true. Its not an emu actualy but more a wrapper. Not everything works but alot of stuff does.
3. No. There was a alpha build of a mos on os4 just to show it was possible. But that wasnt developed any further.
4. Hard to say. Come back when both os run on the same hardware. (Maybe when OS4 for classic is released. )

@WOSPUPOS4

Quote:

1. MUI 4 is being ported to OS4. No timeframe for release is set. 2. Yes it is true. Its not an emu actualy but more a wrapper. Not everything works but alot of stuff does. 3. No. There was a alpha build of a mos on os4 just to show it was possible. But that wasnt developed any further. 4. Hard to say. Come back when both os run on the same hardware. (Maybe when OS4 for classic is released. )

ok thx. I just hope that we will see more os4 presentations now, as well as objective review of it and comparisons of both os'es

What does a wrapper means? Does it make any slowdowns?

_________________
May the force be with you...

Quote:

Srbin wrote: @WOSPUPOS4 Quote: 1. MUI 4 is being ported to OS4. No timeframe for release is set. 2. Yes it is true. Its not an emu actualy but more a wrapper. Not everything works but alot of stuff does. 3. No. There was a alpha build of a mos on os4 just to show it was possible. But that wasnt developed any further. 4. Hard to say. Come back when both os run on the same hardware. (Maybe when OS4 for classic is released. ) ok thx. I just hope that we will see more os4 presentations now, as well as objective review of it and comparisons of both os'es What does a wrapper means? Does it make any slowdowns?

It´s like a translator.
An fictional example: Mos says Init_driver OS4 says Driver_Initiate (it does the same thing but is called other things or have a slighlty diffrent order. Then os4emu just change the os4 code so MOS thinks its native and runs it.
This is fast but not as fast as the real thing. One problem though is that os4emu will never be 100% os4 compatible. Atleast i dont think it will. And if Hyperion makes some big changes then programs may stop running in os4emu. So in the long run its better to run the real thing. But atleast it is nice to be able to use something.

@WOSPUPOS4

So it is something like WINE for linux? To be able to execute win programs on linux?

As i see, the slowdown is when there is a lot of calls to os; main program runs at full speed?

OK, that's fine for me. I hope there will be a price drop for new A1's (or other os4 h/w), but i will be able to live with pegasos and wrapper.
We FINALLY have some movement for amiga

_________________
May the force be with you...

@WOSPUPOS4

Quote:

And if Hyperion makes some big changes then programs may stop running in os4emu.

Actually, if Hyperion make changes in OS4, then programs may stop running in OS4. If Hyperion changes the API (and thus the SDK), then programs compiled after the change may no longer work under OS4emu, but no change Hyperion makes can affect the working or not-working of programs that exist at the time of the change.

@Srbin

Quote:

1. I really, really don't like reaction compared to mui. MOS has native 4.0 mui, is there one for OS4?

The MorphOS native MUI4.0 can currently be classified as beta at best ("alpha" being a more suitable tag perhaps?). However, it's getting there. I think MorphOS is the biggest reason to why development is still being put into this software.

Who knows, maybe there will be an OS4 version at some point, but I think it would require some prerequisites to be fulfulled for this to happen. AFAIK, OS4 has a fully usable MUI (3.8?) demo version in the contribs folder, so MUI programs like for instance Ibrowse can be run on OS4 as well. I wouldn't count on anything else than this if I were you. If MUI4 materializes for OS4, then consider it as a bonus, but you shouldn't bank anything else than the fact that OS4 is reaction in the same way as MorphOS is MUI.

Quote:

2. I read something about os4emu for MOS. As i understood, with it, mos users can start os4 programs. Is it true?

Os4emu is a wrapper that makes it possible to run some OS4 software on MorphOS. However, you should NOT depend your choice of OS on applications like this. Maybe "gimmick" is not a fair word to describe this application, but please understand that it is not part of MorphOS, and that no guarantees whatsoever is given (neither regarding functionality nor regarding future development).

It would be interesting to know what OS4-only application you need that can affect your choice of OS (and then maybe someone can tell if os4emu can help you)?

Quote:

3. Is there something similar for os4? To be able to start MOS programs on OS4 machines?

No, not really.

Quote:

4. Which one has better JIT?

I have no experience about OS4's JIT, but the one in MorphOS (Trance) is truly excellent IMHO.

I am not aware of any comparisons between the two on identical conditions.

Quote:

Why am i asking? I plan buying 'some' amiga, but i am not to give more than $500 for FULL machine. With current prices, second hand pegasos of new efika fits into that. I want to know which os is better, mos or os4... I will wait 2-3 months and then make a decision.

If $500 for a full machine is your limit, then I guess MorphOS is your only option as things are today. I don't think this will change in 2-3 months time, even if hardware like Samantha enters the scene.

Quote:

If aros gets uae integrated, i will have to put a new option in my choice....

If emulation of the "classic" Amiga is what you want, then AROS is not your best choice, but rather Windows. If "Next Generation" is what you want, then AROS is not your best choice either IMHO, which leaves MorphOS and OS4.

@Srbin /all

Moved from hardware to general chat. I decided not to put this in "alt OS" section (yet) nor the "free for all" as to give this a fair chance. Any true trolling or to many complaints and it will either be locked or moved from the front page.

Keep it clean and be nice. It may be a good time to compare both OSes again. If you don't want to contribute other then that OS sucks without explanation stay away.

Last edited by Seer on 25-Dec-2006 at 09:18 AM.

_________________
~
Everything you say will be misquoted and used against you..
~

@Srbin

1. Reaction is growing well, i love reaction
2,3. For what? Only reason would be Sputnik imho. Mosemu exist but never released. If you run OS4 apps, buy an OS4 machine not a peg.
4. Don't know. Somone said MOS has the faster... don't know, anyway with this release Petunia is even faster, already was incredible fast... the point is: both are faster enough for 68k apps. IBrowse 2.4 flies here, it opens in 2 seconds.


Non-twicked OS4 -------> http://www.ikirsector.it/im/amiga/os4final1.jpg
My upd3 schreenshots --> http://ikir.ikirsector.it/computers.php
http://ikir.ikirsector.it/grab/ikirtheme1.2.png
http://ikir.ikirsector.it/grab/ikirtheme1.3.png
http://ikir.ikirsector.it/grab/ikirtheme_menu1.4.png

_________________
ikir

Sorry double post

Last edited by ikir on 25-Dec-2006 at 09:19 AM.

_________________
ikir

Well, I have both. I recently upgraded to MUI4 and the latest Ambient on my Pegasos, and that did make a it a lot nicer than the harsh review on my website would suggest (must do an update), but to me, OS4 feels a lot more finished and polished than MOS. Everything about OS4, from the install CD to the first boot just seems more professional. When you install OS4, you have TCP/IP, a browser and other things ready to go. Under MOS you have to find all this stuff yourself, and there is no os4depot.net equivalent, so mostly you have to go on IRC or scout all the forums looking for the latest versions of stuff.

Personally, I'd take OS4 over MOS any time. It just feels nicer to me. They're both nice operating systems, though.

_________________
Playstation Network ID: xeron6

@takemehomegrandma

Quote:

If $500 for a full machine is your limit, then I guess MorphOS is your only option as things are today.

Oh? please show me where I can purchase this today.

_________________
...wait... what?

@takemehomegrandma

OS4 has MUI 3.9 (PPC native) and it's fully usable/configurable for those who bought the key.

am a fan of both but amiga mostly where my heart

but all i can say for sure is that morphos has grab my eye on serval times and if i can affored which is a big plus at this point i run both

just got to wait

@umisef

Quote:

Actually, if Hyperion make changes in OS4, then programs may stop running in OS4. If Hyperion changes the API (and thus the SDK), then programs compiled after the change may no longer work under OS4emu, but no change Hyperion makes can affect the working or not-working of programs that exist at the time of the change.

Not quite. Internal processes may change and prevent os4emu from running. No changes to the API need to be changed for that.

_________________
Seriously, if you want to contact me do not bother sending me a PM here. Write me a mail

@takemehomegrandma

Quote:

Os4emu is a wrapper that makes it possible to run some OS4 software on MorphOS. However, you should NOT depend your choice of OS on applications like this. Maybe "gimmick" is not a fair word to describe this application, but please understand that it is not part of MorphOS, and that no guarantees whatsoever is given (neither regarding functionality nor regarding future development). It would be interesting to know what OS4-only application you need that can affect your choice of OS (and then maybe someone can tell if os4emu can help you)?

As i see, there are more programs for os4 than for mos. I am afraid that with this all-around-rush about os4 might draw-away mos developers to os4. Personally, i NEVER saw any of these os'es, only screenshots. MOS looks so much better, but i can't risk buying a pretty machine with no s/w in future.

I am interested in programs like Dopus4.18 and epistula , both released a few days ago, but only for os4 and will not be made for mos

So far, my choice is to still wait for next MOS or os4emu move, as it is so much prettier than os4. Does anyone have BOTH pegasos and A1 to make objective comparisons? In speed, stability, JIT, h/w price etc.....??

_________________
May the force be with you...

@ikir

well, i saw MOS screenshots that make you jaw drop. Reaction will never be able to do that. Even my pc friend with custom-fancy made winXP said mos was Great.

_________________
May the force be with you...

@Srbin

I would say that both OS'es looks doesn't have anything to do with each User interface API capabilities, but rather configuration times and good taste of the user.Stating that Reaction will never be able of doing that is nonsense,as it's not the function of reAction or MUI itself to look good.It's the user or the theme creator who can make a mess or a piece of art with each one.

_________________
Cuida tus piedras gordas.

A1200/030 32Mb
A4000D
A1-X1000.

@Ami603

I love all these setup that are avaliable under mui and not reaction. I like to have a choice of different look of button, frames, lists, groups.... And each program has it's own setup...

But luckily, almost every new program requires mui...

Are there new API's in either OS4 or MOS like webcam API?

_________________
May the force be with you...

@Srbin

the question is really easy, its os4.0 or nothing... if your a fan of amiga as you claim you are, you should know by now that the real successor of amiga legacy is aos4.0...

_________________
I was a ZX Spectrum owner....