http://tinyurl.com/yp6d4l

I am interested to know if this is a true email thread. If true and if Davey was sincere then Amiga, Inc. has threatened earlier this year to take away the domain name with at the time the goal being to have BBRV suspended/removed. If this is true I worry about what other influences along the way they have had on moderation, before and since.

:(

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Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
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@fairlanefastback

Don't know if this particular email is genuine, but the contents of it is.

Last edited by tomazkid on 11-Aug-2007 at 03:37 PM.

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Site admins are people too..pooff!

@fairlanefastback

It would be nice to see to not see more drama here like this posted. It serves no purpose..

@fairlanefastback

I thought this information was already public? At least I knew about it, can't remember the sources however. ;)

@hatschi

Quote:

hatschi wrote: @fairlanefastback I thought this information was already public? At least I knew about it, can't remember the sources however. ;)

It was hinted at that it was likely true at one time. But with questions from users like Tomas and ChrisH as to why ACK may be getting certain treatment I think its fair to ask 6 months later if such things really did go on (which Tomazkid now has confirmed) and more importantly do they still go on. If Amiga Inc. is exerting control or if moderation is done in a manner to avoid them doing such again I think its only fair that membership know that Amiga Inc,. exerts a direct influence here.

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Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

@fairlanefastback

Quote:

It was hinted at that it was likely true at one time.

I think I rember now. AMiGR (what was his new nickname again?) posted about it on the Bunny.

Quote:

If Amiga Inc. is exerting control or if moderation is done in a manner to avoid them doing such again I think its only fair that membership know that Amiga Inc,. exerts a direct influence here.

Well, I'd hope that won't be the case anymore in the future (Amiga Inc. exerting control).
If they put pressure on the website again, I wouldn't mind if Davey decides to remove the boing-ball banner and to rename the site to Amigoworld.net. (I hate boing-balls and we are mainly guys anyway. )

Last edited by hatschi on 11-Aug-2007 at 03:56 PM.

@hatschi

Quote:

I think I rember now. AMiGR (what was his new nickname again?) posted about it on the Bunny.

Zardoz

Oh, and the thread:
http://moobunny.dreamhosters.com/cgi/mbthread.pl/amiga/expand/139734?page=1

The AW response from seer about advertising is here.

#6

Last edited by number6 on 11-Aug-2007 at 04:31 PM.

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This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

@fairlanefastback
Rather off topic, but I noticed the title of the thread your post appeared in, and had a quick look. I was quickly reminded why I don't bother with the Moobunny:
http://moobunny.dreamhosters.com/cgi/mbmessage.pl/amiga/149227.shtml

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@fairlanefastback

hmm why would you post Private emails on Public forums? I hate this kind of thing.

@fairlanefastback

Quote:

If this is true I worry about what other influences along the way they have had on moderation, before and since.

I know you won't take my word for it, but let me just say it anyway. None that I know of... Why exactly do you worry about that, btw?

Regards,
Joachim Birging

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@zerohero

Quote:

zerohero wrote: @fairlanefastback Quote: If this is true I worry about what other influences along the way they have had on moderation, before and since. I know you won't take my word for it, but let me just say it anyway. None that I know of... Why exactly do you worry about that, btw? Regards, Joachim Birging

It would be a shame (I think personally) if Amiga had been or is still calling the shots on anything else than this one thing that the board let them do as seems to be confirmed now. Since this arrangement came to pass on this issue you are right it is hard to know if the board would be truthful if it had occurred again or still is occurring. But with mods from here on other boards characterizing this as a possible "leak" especially it certainly would seem it was intended to stay secret. Given that certain posters have leanings one way or the other I think it is worrisome because it brings into question if everyone gets equal treatment under the TOS. I think the community would have been totally behind the board if it had resisted the demand, and if that meant a domain name change I think you still would have found most following to whatever the new address had to be. Anyway thats why I find it worrisome this happened.

_________________
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Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

@zerohero

Quote:

Why exactly do you worry about that, btw?

Amiga Inc as a "company" shouldn't have any saying in whats going on in a community site.

I hope Amiga Inc have NO (zero!) influence over this site and must admit i have never noticed anything suspicious that could seem like orders from A.inc

_________________

@fairlanefastback

Quote:

But with mods from here on other boards characterizing this as a possible "leak" especially it certainly would seem it was intended to stay secret.

Appearance and truth are different matters, I guess in the simple form of communication of an internet forum that's lost though. As staff we never accused one another of a leak, we were wondering where it came from, two very different things. Sadly enough it happened while there were two quite new mods (Zardoz, known as AmiGR, and me) and two very new mods (T_Bone and moxee). There was no blame, only questions.

Quote:

Given that certain posters have leanings one way or the other I think it is worrisome because it brings into question if everyone gets equal treatment under the TOS.

I'd say you worry to much...

Quote:

I think the community would have been totally behind the board if it had resisted the demand

If you only knew how wrong you are here. The community, as you name it, is divided into small puddles where some people still believe in pixies, and some grief the Amiga as if a family member died...

What worries me is that with the very small amount of information you gather from that mail you're still implying we moderators are corrupt, manage to link to a moobunny post and think we all are holding certain members in higher regard and "protect" them from the "concerned" users out there. And no, you didn't say it in so many words, but the implication was still there... Now, without knowing one bit on what is being discussed on the staff forums, why are you implying this?

Regards,
Joachim Birging



EDIT:
I would also like to add that there is a thin line of discussing moderation in this thread. We're discussing that in the staff forums as we speak. If we can keep it civil I see no problems in letting this thread run though, every now and then you might need to vent stuff.

Last edited by zerohero on 11-Aug-2007 at 11:30 PM.

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@zerohero

Quote:

What worries me is that with the very small amount of information you gather from that mail you're still implying we moderators are corrupt, manage to link to a moobunny post and think we all are holding certain members in higher regard and "protect" them from the "concerned" users out there. And no, you didn't say it in so many words, but the implication was still there... Now, without knowing one bit on what is being discussed on the staff forums, why are you implying this

Let us take a step back perhaps. Again working with the circumstance that this seems confirmed now. What I am trying to discuss here is that we have Amiga as characterized in this email thread as at one time unhappy with posts that were occurring here from another member. Now granted not just any member, but a business rival. But that said because of that they contact DaveyD and threaten that they will seek to take control of the domain name away from Davey if he does not suspend/ban this particular account the way the email reads to me. Now in fairness to Davey he characterizes this as having gone on for some time and in further fairness to the board that account has been restored full access since when this happened.

But that all said the demand was given into and it was intended to be kept secret. And if losing the domain name was leverage then I see little to not make it leverage still. I'm not saying moderators are corrupt or implying such, you must work with the will of the site owner ultimately. And the decision can be viewed as one of practicality to an extent. But it would seem to me a bit disappointing from a community site. And I have to admit when a Bill McEwen thread gets killed practically before its been started, even if with a practical intent for honest discussion and even if confirmed by mods after its deletion it was not in violation of TOS it does seem a little bit extra reactionary.

I don't want to beat this to death. Perhaps a fuller disclosure of what happened at the time can clear the air? I have no idea, all I am saying in the end I guess is this was not encouraging to have confirmed. :(

EDIT: For what its worth the fact that this thread has been allowed to go through does build confidence that this was an isolated incident. :)

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 12-Aug-2007 at 12:04 AM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 11-Aug-2007 at 11:57 PM.

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Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

@fairlanefastback

You're still just speculating too much, too much "it seems" and "to me it reads like", yet very little content. There's still implications we're doing a bad job, or that DaveyD is corrupt and maybe, just maybe he isn't the right man for the job. That is not going to work here, it's just not.

Quote:

And I have to admit when a Bill McEwen thread gets killed practically before its been started, even if with a practical intent for honest discussion and even if confirmed by mods after its deletion it was not in violation of TOS it does seem a little bit extra reactionary.

I can't remember the exact occasion on this, but as tomazkid's sig says, moderators are dorks too... err, i mean people too. Off course we're going to make mistakes every now and then, we're trying to minimize them though, and helping each other out when need be.

Quote:

Perhaps a fuller disclosure of what happened at the time can clear the air?

What exactly is it you want to know? What air needs to be cleared? Why is this even a concern for you, really?

Quote:

I have no idea

In this specific case, I agree with you...

Regards,
Joachim Birging

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Common sense - So rare it's almost like a super power

@fairlanefastback

Perhaps (as zerohero said) you are reading too much into this quoted email. The impression I got from reading it was this:

BBRV donated some money to AW.net after feeling that they had been accused of advertising. In the same email they said that they were going to "pull out of AW.net now that ... Efika ... etc".

The response from AW.net was that as a result of their being no longer active, would they object if their old account were deleted?

To me that shows that even if pressure had been put on the staff in the past, it had not been successful. Ergo, Our Heroes have Done The Right Thing.

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tony

Hyperion Support Forum: http://forum.hyperion-entertainment.biz/index.php

@zerohero

I find it disturbing that Amiga Inc attempts (?) to coerce AW.net into certain actions. My ideal of AW.net is that it is "about the community, for the community" and therefore free speech is essential. If AInc was successful in forcing it's policies on AW.net then AW would just be another mouth piece or business unit and it's value would be greatly diminished - the community would go somewhere else.

Thankfully, we haven't reached that stage, but IMHO it simply isn't enough to say "you don't know all the information" especially when another moderator has confirmed the content of the original email is true. If you (the mods) clear the air then you can (figuratively) kill this thread now or you can let it fester...

By the sounds of it, most users would back you up if they knew the truth. This isn't Moo.

@koan

Quote:

"about the community, for the community"

It is!

Quote:

but IMHO it simply isn't enough to say "you don't know all the information"

I didn't say that, I asked how he came to the conclusions he did with near to zero information on the matter. That another mod has confirmed the content of the mail doesn't even matter at all. Did I somewhere say it wasn't authentic, btw?

Quote:

If you (the mods) clear the air then you can (figuratively) kill this thread now or you can let it fester...

I still don't understand what air needs to be clear, what exactly is it you want? No one has said what they want, just that we should clear the air. What exactly is it you want to know?

Regards,
Joachim Birging

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Common sense - So rare it's almost like a super power

@zerohero

Quote:

There's still implications we're doing a bad job, or that DaveyD is corrupt and maybe, just maybe he isn't the right man for the job. That is not going to work here, it's just not

You can try to twist it to that if you wish but I did not say that. In fact I said it would appear Davey resisted for some period of time from what he said. That would hardly be an accusation of him being "corrupt" or not "the right man for the job". In fact that would show me taking him at his word as well. You can take this route as a method of diversion. Thats your business.

Quote:

I can't remember the exact occasion on this

Its certainly been more than once.

Quote:

Off course we're going to make mistakes every now and then, we're trying to minimize them though, and helping each other out when need be.

Great, good to hear.

Quote:

What exactly is it you want to know? What air needs to be cleared? Why is this even a concern for you, really?

If you think that its not a concern of membership to know the details of Amiga dictating actions taken by the board in this particular case thats your privelage as a moderator to decide we are should be kept in the dark on those details. But I think you are playiong coy to act as if no member would want to understand better why this occured.

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 12-Aug-2007 at 01:48 AM.

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@fairlanefastback

Well, you managed to avoid the questions in my post above, but I'll head for bed now, so you'll have quite a few hours to respond if you want to.

Regards,
Joachim Birging

Last edited by zerohero on 12-Aug-2007 at 01:49 AM.

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