I see on Amazon there is a book called On the Edge: the Spectacular Rise and Fall of Commodore from 2005. Out of stock but then I see a new book, same author, same amount of pages, that is pre-release for 2010. I wonder if this is the same book just updated for 2010?

Anyway, anyone know if this is indeed the same book, slightly different title?

Has anyone here read the 2005 edition and how was it?

tj

* BY THE WAY, any other Commodore books you can all recommend for someone wanting to learn about the days of Commodore and also Amiga.

@MacSociety

I ordered edition one in November, got it last week, so apparently even if listed "out of stock", they managed to get it from somewhere, even if it took two months.

The second edition is expected to include an interview with Jack Tramiel, and that should be the main difference.
(It will be interesting to see if he will finally reveal the real reason he left in 1984).

I ordered from amazon.uk btw, don't know if that matters.

Haven't read the whole book yet, really needed in early December for an University course, but made it without it, so the reading it will have to wait.
Anyway, a quick look throught it revealed a lot of interesting "inside" information, like that C= stopped all Amiga development for 6 months in early 1990:es, to do IBM-clones instead, something very stupid to do with hindsight.

This thread is about my "project" btw.

Last edited by tomazkid on 09-Feb-2010 at 02:00 AM.
Last edited by tomazkid on 09-Feb-2010 at 01:52 AM.

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@tomazkid

The whole Commodore saga just leaves a bitter taste in my mouth :( ...when one looks back at the stupidities! Commodore today could have been Apple 2.0.

What a wasted opportunity to lead an industry!

Q!

"i am home"

@MacSociety

I have the original edition. It's brilliant, one of the best computer books I've read. Changed the whole way I viewed computer history -- not so much for the Amiga info and how it has been criminally ignored (along with the ST), because I knew that, but I never really knew how important Commodore was overall, and from the beginning. The C64 was a monster, and having seen some YouTube videos of what musicians can do with them, I will never look at the "breadbox" the same way again. There was also a lot of great background on chip design, various technical aspects of computer engineering, and eye-opening info on how all these companies keep suing each other.

On the Amiga side, what upset me most was, paradoxically, how far ahead they were in development back in the late '80s. They were working on things like 3D acceleration for the custom chips. Or did I read that online somewhere? But it just ####es me off that money was chopped out of these great programs. Just imagine if the A1200 and A4000 had been released with 24-bit color, 16-bit sound and 3D acceleration 3 years before the first Voodoo card hit the shelves.

It makes me ill when I think about what Irving Gould and Mehdi Ali did. But IBM had a hand in it, too.

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@EmperorLongo

Quote:

It makes me ill when I think about what Irving Gould and Mehdi Ali did.

Dunno about Irving, but at least Mehdi proudly presents himself as President of Commodore International, where he accomplished a major operational turnaround

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@tomazkid

I hope his next career involves pushing shopping carts...

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@tomazkid

Ha, didn't he just!

@EmperorLongo

Quote:

I have the original edition. It's brilliant, one of the best computer books I've read. Changed the whole way I viewed computer history -- not so much for the Amiga info

Exactly, the book gave an impression how much Commodore dominated the beginning of the PCs. The C= PET for example was a real threat for Apple. The book explained how the clear margin of C= was lost when C= switched from Personal-Computers to Home-Computers without looking for compatibillity. The Amiga was a chance to fix most things that wen wrong, but they lost it.

Quote:

They were working on things like 3D acceleration for the custom chips.

The Amiga Blitter had line algorithms that where used as '3D acceleration'. The word 3D acceleration was used in a different way as it is used today. 2D function like 'line', 'area fill' and 2D clipping where a base for all 3D vector games and they where built into the Amiga ROMs.

cu

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I borrowed this comments from here (#27 & #28):
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=38873&forum=2&start=20&order=0

@MacSociety

A really great book! The 2nd Edition should be even more complete and a must have read! No other Commodore book comes close. No revisionist history here! The new edition has interviews with Kit Spencer; the UK Sales and Marketing mastermind that made the Amiga so successful in the UK. Also, an interview with Jack Tramiel himself and other additions like the chapter about the Tim and Kim models omitted from the first edition!

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@MacSociety

The first edition (which I got around to finishing towards the end of last year) was a great read, and a fantastic insight into how Commodore was run into the ground by some stupendously bad management.

[fixed typo]

Last edited by _Steve_ on 09-Feb-2010 at 01:34 PM.

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@_Steve_

Coincidentally, I am 2 chapters away from reading this book for the 2nd time. It's a great read - and now with a second edition? Looks like I will be reading it all over again in the future!

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@tomazkid

Great find! I wonder how truly successful his other "turnarounds" were?

@Arko

Thanks for the clarification on 3D acceleration. I wish I had some idea where I first read about that. I'd like to find it again and re-read it to see how your info will help me understand the material better. No matter what, I'll remain upset that we never got AAA or even Hombre. Heck, I just read that Hombre had HDTV compatibility. That would be a sweet function on an A4000.

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@MacSociety

Excellent read. I pre-ordered the first edition when it was originally announced and read it cover to cover in a couple of sittings.

TrevorD

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@MacSociety

The original book is excellent, but the main oversight is that it doesn't have any first person accounts from Jack Tramiel, who you can argue is both the hero and villain of the tale.

When the Commodore 64 had its 25th anniversary a year ago, the author met Tramiel on a panel and was able to secure a full interview. So now this new version will be the "complete" story.

I've got it on pre-order and can't wait for its release.

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@IslandDreamer

Is AmigaKit stocking the second edition?

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@tomazkid

Quote:

tomazkid wrote: @MacSociety I ordered edition one in November, got it last week, so apparently even if listed "out of stock", they managed to get it from somewhere, even if it took two months. The second edition is expected to include an interview with Jack Tramiel, and that should be the main difference. (It will be interesting to see if he will finally reveal the real reason he left in 1984).

There's no shock in the reasoning [he was shown the door]. Jack wanted to make Commodore the Tramiel Family 3-Ring Circus with Sam, Gary, and Leonard all serving as Commodore's Manny, Moe and Jack*. Irving Gould didn't stand for the nepotism and combined with Tramiel ruining the home computer industry with his massive price cuts just as a personal vendetta to run Texas Instruments into the ground, he also killed the profitability of the 8-bit computer line prematurely [and Commodore had no follow up product except for the C-128]. I'd say that's more than enough reason to show the man the door.


*Anyone on here that was an Atarian back in the day can attest to the "greatness" that came to Atari via the Tramiels. You know, back in the day, we didn't think anyone could run the company worse than Warner Communications - now TimeWarner - but boy were we wrong. When the Tramiels came in, they sacked all the good with the bad. And guess what? They never could get the AMY sound chip to work on their own because they fired the engineers prematurely. They blundered and lost Amiga. They cancelled the 1400XL and the 1450XLD and replaced them with the cheapo XE line of computers because they thought the 8-bit line was dead already and they couldn't stand the fact that they were left with the C-64's competition. They apparently never found the prototypes of the Sierra and Gaza computers that were both built around the Motorola 68000 [the Gaza having dual 68000s running in parallel] and were apparently more powerful than the ST or the Amiga later became [despite them having been finished in 1983]. Oh, and they lost the Nintendo contract too and then foolishly did not release the 7800 until 1986 after Nintendo had already revived the video game industry - which Jack had declared as being dead - and locked up almost all 3rd party developers into exclusive contracts. Yep, that's genius!


As for why Commodore off-and-on cancelled further development of the Amiga, I would bet $5 or euros that Commodore had to pay Atari Corp. royalties per Amiga sold as part of the private legal settlement between the two companies over the dispute over ownership of the Amiga post 1987. Funny how nobody has divulged the details about that lawsuit yet, and I'm sure there's just as many Amiga fans as Atari fans that would love to finally learn the truth behind the settlement.

Last edited by Lynxpro on 27-Feb-2010 at 07:26 AM.

@Arko

Quote:

Arko wrote: @EmperorLongo Quote: I have the original edition. It's brilliant, one of the best computer books I've read. Changed the whole way I viewed computer history -- not so much for the Amiga info Exactly, the book gave an impression how much Commodore dominated the beginning of the PCs. The C= PET for example was a real threat for Apple. The book explained how the clear margin of C= was lost when C= switched from Personal-Computers to Home-Computers without looking for compatibillity. The Amiga was a chance to fix most things that wen wrong, but they lost it.

History can be such a cruel mistress. Watch the video of the anniversary of the Commodore 64 that the Computer History Museum threw [via YouTube] that had Jack Tramiel and Steve Wozniak as panelists. One of the best parts of the video was when Al Alcorn [former Atarian, Apple Fellow, etc.] stands up and gives a little bit of background. Alcorn had pressed Warner management to allow Atari to purchase MOS Technologies but they said "no". Had Alcorn been successful in this endeavor, Jack and Co. would've never had the vertical integration that he so coveted to do his massive price war that ruined the 8-bit portion of the industry. His only other option would've been to buy Zilog and make future Commodore computers built with the Z-80 if he went ahead with vertical integration. Otherwise, the C-64 may still have happened with a 6502 based processor but it wouldn't have been as popular as it became without the massive price cuts.

The industry would look a whole lot different today had any of that happened. Despite what Jack has later said, I don't think him and Commodore single handedly stopped Microsoft's MSX platform from being adopted in the US and Europe via the armada of Japanese companies pushing it; I think it would've flopped regardless.

I do plan on getting a copy of the book but a lot of Commodore's early history was already covered in the out-of-print "The Home Computer Wars". Definitely check that out along with other out-of-print classics like "Zap - The Rise and Fall of Atari" and "Game Over".