The way I use computers today is different from how I used them 10 years ago. I thus wonder if it's possible to use a modern Amiga or clone the way I do a PC or Mac. The answer is most likely "No," but how close can we come?

With OWB and the upcoming Timberwolf, the internet is no longer a problem, but video editing has become a big deal for many computer users, and I'm not aware of a video editor for OS4/MorphOS. Downloading Flash videos from YouTube is also a major thing. So here's a short list of software I'd like to see on a modern Amiga. Some of it may already exist, so I'm happy for any info.

Video Editor -- A decent app that can capture and edit video, manage more than one HD, handle multiple formats -- DV, HD, AVI, MOV -- and output into several formats, including Flash and MPEG2. Must also be able to edit audio in the standard "rubberband" fashion.

Flash Movie Downloader -- Grab videos off YouTube and other sites using Flash.

Video Converter -- Convert Flash video and other formats to AVI, MPG, iPhone, etc. for editing on a timeline.

DVD Authoring -- An app capable of creating a DVD with menus, playable in standard players as well as computers.

Is anything underway in any of these areas? Would it be possible to port a Linux video editor such as Cinelerra or Kdenlive?

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How many people actually do video editing on their machine (general population)? I don't know anyone who actually bothers. Most people spend 90% of their time in a web browser. AOS4 or MOS would be fine for a casual user if they didn't up and crash all the time.

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@EmperorLongo

Quote:

EmperorLongo wrote: Video Editor -- A decent app that can capture and edit video, manage more than one HD, handle multiple formats -- DV, HD, AVI, MOV -- and output into several formats, including Flash and MPEG2. Must also be able to edit audio in the standard "rubberband" fashion.

There was going to be a video editor for MorphOS, but it seems to have disappeared.

I've always wanted to write a video editor for Amiga OS. We're still missing some vital components though. We need a proper video datatype with encoders (was working on that a while ago, but MiniGL and the RadeonHD drivers have taken priority). Alternatively, we'd need the encoder part of the avcodec.library to be implemented. No idea when I'll finally be able to get round to working on a video editor, so if anyone can step in sooner, go ahead.

Quote:

Flash Movie Downloader -- Grab videos off YouTube and other sites using Flash.

That wouldn't be a high priority for me. I have this on my Windows machine, but almost never use it.

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Video Converter -- Convert Flash video and other formats to AVI, MPG, iPhone, etc. for editing on a timeline.

We have MEncoder. IIRC, there should be a GUI for it somewhere.

Quote:

DVD Authoring -- An app capable of creating a DVD with menus, playable in standard players as well as computers.

Quote:

Is anything underway in any of these areas? Would it be possible to port a Linux video editor such as Cinelerra or Kdenlive?

I looked at various Linux video editors several years ago, and then gave up and bought Adobe Premiere Elements. Hopefully the Linux video editors have improved.

Hans

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@EmperorLongo Quote:

I'm not aware of a video editor for OS4/MorphOS.

Blender can apparently do this quite well.

Most of your wishes seem related to video. And video is a BIG problem due to codecs - they are mostly closed-source x86 Windows binaries (and even the open source ones are a complex nightmare to port & optimise). Video editing also has the problem of needing an advanced GUI (and so typically tied to Windows even if open source).

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We just need something to top and tail common formats, add subtitles and a few basic effects. Being able to add an additional sound track would be useful.

Editing video is a difficulty - just as it has been for years under Linux, although OpenShot is quite good for basics and Cinelerra is good for more advanced stuff.

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@koft

Well, gee, how many people do you know who make levels for Doom, Crysis, etc.? Lots of people do it. How do you suppose people edit their videos for YouTube, or convert them to the preferred mpg2 format?

How many people did you ever know who used Scala, or AmigaVision? How many people do you know who use Hollywood?

How many people do you know who compose(d) MODs in ProTracker, OctaMed, Digibooster Pro?

How many people do you know who are democoders, artists, musicians?

How many 3D artists do you know who use Blender, Lightwave, and so on?

OK, I've beaten this dead horse enough. Suffice to say, enough people must edit video to make it worthwhile for Apple and Microsoft to ship a video editor and DVD authoring package with every copy of their OS. :) iMovie in particular is looking really nice these days, and it was good enough in the past for me to do a lot of professional work with it.

The Amiga may be a hobby for most of us, but I'll wager Hyperion and A-EON are hoping for a bit more than that. I agree that most people spend their time glued to a browser and there is no doubt that getting a modern browser was Job #1 for OS4/MorphOS. OWB is great and I have high hopes for Timberwolf. But, the only way to advance a platform is to advance it, thus my yapping about video and DVD apps.

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@EmperorLongo

Quote:

EmperorLongo wrote: The Amiga may be a hobby for most of us, but I'll wager Hyperion and A-EON are hoping for a bit more than that. I agree that most people spend their time glued to a browser and there is no doubt that getting a modern browser was Job #1 for OS4/MorphOS. OWB is great and I have high hopes for Timberwolf. But, the only way to advance a platform is to advance it, thus my yapping about video and DVD apps.

Video editing is also a hobby for a lot of people.

Hans

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Maybe you should rename it to "Vital Software I need on my OS4 !!!"

1. I think replacing my WIN PC with anything else (even MAC) won't happen in the near future ! There are to many big and little applications where I donnot have an alternative on any other system. Just to name a few:

- homebanking client only works on windows (at least with my bank...)
- Educational Soft (from editors of "official" school books) is mostly done for Win, and "must" be chosen, as government guidlines say...
- my Tacx training soft and polar heartbeat monitor soft (see tacxvr.com)
- GIS Soft (for my little business)

Other soft might be available on MAC or Linux. Yes.. but not on Amiga in the foresable future.

But what the Amiga Community should focus on, are applications which are "nearly unique" and maybe one "killer app". Hollywood/Designer e.g. is definetly an app which I only use on Amiga, and which "justifice" my Amiga SAM.

2. Different people / target groups need different software...

Your "killer app" might be videoediting, my "killer app" would be Office.
I think it would be wrong direction to try to push Amiga as "Home Computer / PC / Office" System. Which just tries to reach functionallity of a Win based system.
Rather find a target group, which needs just a few "killer apps". Obviously, we here at AW.net probably won't get what we want (basically functionallity of Win Soft on AOS). But hopefully there will be people out there who say: "This task only with AMIGA !, there is no better HW/Soft combination then AMIGA".
Some ideas here might be kiosk systems, low power consumption designs, maybe internet surfboxes on aeroplanes (if not already exist...)

SO SOFTWARE NEEDED DEPENDS ON HYPERIONS/ACUBE/A-EONs TARGET GROUP. I donnot think they can live on us few here on AW, AN, Amigans... where some of them also do have high expectations on Software needed...

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@Hans

Quote:

Hans wrote: @EmperorLongo There was going to be a video editor for MorphOS, but it seems to have disappeared.

Years ago Titan/Power Computing, IIRC, was getting set to release Motion Studio for either MOS or AOS. It was a simple editor, similar in appearance to iMovie, but appeared to have more tracks and more power. This goes back to around 2000. I don't believe it was ever released. Maybe this is the one?

Quote:

I've always wanted to write a video editor for Amiga OS. We're still missing some vital components though. We need a proper video datatype with encoders (was working on that a while ago, but MiniGL and the RadeonHD drivers have taken priority). Alternatively, we'd need the encoder part of the avcodec.library to be implemented. No idea when I'll finally be able to get round to working on a video editor, so if anyone can step in sooner, go ahead.

Great info. I hope someone implements that part of the library.

Re: Flash Movie Downloader;

Quote:

That wouldn't be a high priority for me. I have this on my Windows machine, but almost never use it.

I understand, but some of us use it constantly to save YouTube videos that have a habit of disappearing, like for example music videos.

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We have MEncoder. IIRC, there should be a GUI for it somewhere.

I'll look into that, thanks.

Quote:

I looked at various Linux video editors several years ago, and then gave up and bought Adobe Premiere Elements. Hopefully the Linux video editors have improved.

Cinelerra and Kdenlive look pretty good, but I've heard that the latter is crashy. I'll give 'em a look whenever I have Linux again.

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@Hans

Quote:

Video editing is also a hobby for a lot of people. Hans

True, and then again, people like me also make money at it.

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@EmperorLongo

Must answer even if that Post is not for me ;))


Quote:

How many people do you know who compose(d) MODs in ProTracker, OctaMed, Digibooster Pro? How many people do you know who are democoders, artists, musicians?

The problem is not the quantity of ppl, in the Amiga Scene there are enough people doing all that things. I know most any active now doing something but problem is, the most use the old tools like 10 Years before, noone on PPC.. perhabs 5 - 6 Demoscener have a OS4.1 PPC Systembut laking of tools yet, inclusing myself, this sucks. So in my opinion it is not right to blame anything of missing Video Tools. First we need music, graphic tools for 2d and 3d and so on, after that bigger apps for video or whatever to combinate all those projects... then the viewer or plugins of course ;))
When a system has to stand on it's own legs, then you have to begin from the bottom, not the top, quite simple :)

Quote:

@EmperorLongo Suffice to say, enough people must edit video to make it worthwhile for Apple and Microsoft to ship a video editor and DVD authoring package with every copy of their OS. :) iMovie in particular is looking really nice these days, and it was good enough in the past for me to do a lot of professional work with it.

Yes, I think one of the hot things these days is uploading videos to YouTube. Even though I am a Machead, I had never used iMovie up until I made that weird little Unboxing the A4000T video recently. It was so easy even this dude with no video camera made the video. Anyway, when I think video, I used to think Amiga years ago with the whole Toaster stuff. Too bad they did not get something like that for the everyday user (ala iMovie) to people.

To me, iMovie is that killer app that an Amiga could have had. Ease of use and even this monkey could make a video and upload to YouTube. Would be sweet if Amiga, the new Amiga of 2010 and beyond, can find that killer app.

tj

Last edited by MacSociety on 04-Mar-2010 at 10:37 PM.

@ChrisH

Thanks for the info about codecs. It sounds like a big but not impossible job, just a question of whether the effort is worth it, because ideally the end result would be sellable. How many potential buyers in the tiny Amiga market for a nice editor?

I'm not sure I understand the "advanced GUI" part? What's wrong with the AOS/MOS GUI that would prevent creation of a good video editor? AOS is good enough to run Movieshop, Toaster/Flyer, etc. Not bad apps.

As an example of where I'm coming from, my weapons of choice on Windows;

Sony Vegas & DVD Architect

RealPlayer Downloader

AVS Video Converter

WM Recorder & WM Capture

Natch, the Windows market can make people fortunes even in niche areas. I'm not complaining about the situation on AOS/MOS, in fact I'm ecstatic, I'd just love to see the Amiga platform back in video, given that the desktop video revolution started on the miggy, and companies like Applied Magic and Macrosystems did good stuff for Amiga before launching their successful editing appliance businesses. I mean, there's a tradition here . . .

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Somehow doublepost, sorry

Last edited by gerograph on 04-Mar-2010 at 09:47 PM.

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@EmperorLongo
For Downloading You Tube videos Clipdown works on the Amiga, you need getvideo installed as well and one other thing, sorry can't remember off the top of my head but its listed in the Clipdown docs, if I remember correctly

Works well and use Mplayer to view them ( better with Mplayer GUI)

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@EmperorLongo

videoeditor: blender has a full featured NLE video editor, but you need a version with ffmpeg enabled. dunno if the latest 2.50 alpha 1 has it or not.

DVD Authoring: theres dvd-engine and blueHD for morphos, also something with the name "dvd-author" afair.

Video Converter: theres mencoder (mencodergui or tubexx for gui) and ffmpeg

Flash Movie Downloader: getvideo, flashless and clipdown (os4 only)

Last edited by $adddam on 04-Mar-2010 at 10:04 PM.

@Psycreator

Yeah, whenever I think of Amiga PPC demos I think of Mad Wizards, and how everyone complains because they have a Peg and use MOS. But there are more Amiga PPC demos turning up on YouTube. Not a lot, but some by different groups than MAWI.

Whenever I think about what makes Amiga special to me, the MOD and Demoscene really stand out. My favorite demo is still "9 Fingers" by Spaceballs. It's the coolest music video I've ever seen that has no actual video in it. I think it's just genius how Major Asshole wrote a raster-to-vector program, then a vector-trace program, and turned all that video into filled vectors -- on an A500!!! At least I think he used an A500 . . . and Travolter's music track is incredible.

And then of course there's The Black Lotus, and "Starstruck," "Ocean Machine," and "Silkcut." I could go on and on with more groups. I mean, I'm one of the people who is actually mesmerized by Ephidrena's "lux." Such a great atmosphere in that one, but it draws many haters.

Amiga MODs are so good that I've made compilation CDs that young people who've never heard of an Amiga go nuts over.

I hope you demo guys get your tools and start doing more PPC demos. I can't wait to see the results!

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@EmperorLongo

Hi!
I can only tell about AmigaOS4.x:

- For VideoEditing the only serious thing we have atm was Blender...
The problem here was power however...on my G3@666 I can only play a 320x240 mpeg1 video at decente speed in Blender VideoEditor...

- GetVideo(itself or in conjunction with ClipDonw) do all you nedd for flash video download and can be configured for every site...the author itself was pretty fast to add support for asked sites!

- for converting videos ffmpegGUI was all you need :) easy to use GUI with many preconfigured scripts

- no DVD authoring afaik

Hope that helps :)

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@ajs & $addam

Thanks for the info! ATM I don't have AOS4, only MOS 2.4, but I'll try everything that I can. ChrisH also mentioned Blender, and that really surprises me, but it's a good surprise.

I'm happy to know that all these options exist, and very likely that things will only get better in the future.

Last edited by EmperorLongo on 04-Mar-2010 at 11:17 PM.

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