Hello all. While shopping at a surplus store (S.W.A.P. in Madison, WI), I found several flatscreen monitors, with a standard aspect ratio. (The only ones I can find new are widescreens, which should work with creative use of P96mode, but AGA stuff is going to appear too stretched for my tastes) Another thing I noticed with some of them, they have dual inputs. One is VGA, the other is DVI. Assuming the monitor can switch between the 2 inputs, is DVI capable of 15 KHZ horizontal and 50/60HZ vertical? And if so, would I be able to wire up a 23-pin RGB to DVI adapter, hence losing the desktop clutter of both my VGA switchbox and external scandoubler? (I'm using an NTSC Amiga, though most the video games I play are in PAL, hence the ancient VGA switchbox and scandoubler that I'm using, as seen in my brag page)

If this would work, I would be incredibly happy to ditch the 80lb 20" CRT, ancient switchbox, and use the scandoubler on my other Amiga.

Last edited by kvasir on 07-Nov-2009 at 07:00 PM.

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Could be wrong, but I doubt you'd be able to wire up an RGB to DVI adapter yourself. They're totally different standards.

DVI can carry analog video too, so your typical Component to DVI adapter isn't actually converting anything. It's still analog, but it'll work.

To be sure it's digital, you'd need to find a Component to HDMI converter (of course you'd need to convert the Amiga RGB to Component), then use an HDMI to DVI cable to be absolutely sure you're getting a digital signal into the monitor.

Although, keep in mind, the Amigas output is analog anyway. So I don't see the point in converting to a digital signal :)

As for whether DVI is compatible with 15khz, I don't see why not, i'd bet on it that it's yes. It'd be up to the monitor which digital signals it accepts. 15khz over the analog signal via DVI should work.

@MickJT

Thanks for that, I'll have to visit my favorite solder-jockey site (Pinouts.ru) and see about rigging an adapter for the analog feed. If it syncs to NTSC/PAL I'll be happy, otherwise, I'll just run it through the scandoubler (which can be hidden out of the way)

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@kvasir

Wow! You sure done an excellent job on your website.....Some day I'll be as good as you in Amiga configuration...still learning...
Ciao!
Tony
radio amateur wa9yoz

@wa9yoz

TY! The most fun part of Amiga ownership (imho) is learning how to upgrade and tweak it. Learned alot this last semester having upgraded my 1200 from a console to a tower. Though admittedly, the 1200 had lost a bit of charm in the modernization. So I'm setting up my console unit tonight, with nothing more than an external scandoubler, an IDE drive, a PCMCIA ethernet card, and the extra '030 32MB card I have lying around. Also, digging around the Amigas guts has taught me more stuff about 'puters in general than the A+ certification course I'm taking. (And doing the classwork which requires a windows screenshot at home is really entertaining when that t screenshot is achieved with VNC+cybergrab, so the instructor can see the whole Amiga Workbench )

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@kvasir

man that's a seriously cool web page ya got there

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@kvasir

Quote:

The only ones I can find new are widescreens, which should work with creative use of P96mode

How is that more "creative" than creating any 4x3 screenmode? Perhaps presets can be missing, but other than giving width and height, P96 probably shouldn't care too much about the size.

I have a 20.1" 1600x1200 Dell monitor with DVI, VGA, Composite and Svideo inputs. And as it's obviously capable of video frequencies, I tried it with VGA aswell. And indeed, it displays PAL aswell (using 23pin to VGA adapter at Amiga end)

But generally, most flatscreens aren't capable of displaying video frequencies. Many cannot even handle 320x240...

Quote:

but AGA stuff is going to appear too stretched for my tastes

How does that differ from 4x3 monitors? Or are you referring to some really cheap models, which can only "scale to fullscreen, no matter what the pixel aspect ratio is"? I guess most better monitors can scale with aspect ratio (in which case you will get black bars left and right "wasting" that area of display, but nowadays you might get widescreen for cheaper than "as high" 4x3, talking about new models)

@Jupp3

My mother-in-law got a widescreen lcd display, and it stretched the image to fill the screen. Granted, she uses WinXP, and the GFX card didn't support it. Mine should do OK with p96 (creative use just means I'm not used to using monitor software this way, as my high end GFX cards only work on Win machines which aren't anywhere near as flexible. Really cool that P96 allows it, though). The scaling prob would only be an issue with AGA, unless the monitor has a "sideways letterbox" option, or defaults to such.

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@kvasir

Nice screen shots on your site Nate. Makes me want to set up one of my Amigas to run Windows and MacOS again, like I had running over 10 years ago on an A2000 w/GoldenGate Bridgeboard, but I could only barely manage Windows 3.1 back then. Will PC Task run Windows98? I don't think I have an install CD for Win95 anymore.

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Amiga! The computer that inspired so many, to accomplish so much, but has ended up in the hands of . . . . . . . . . .

@Jupp3

Quote:

I have a 20.1" 1600x1200 Dell monitor with DVI, VGA, Composite and Svideo inputs. And as it's obviously capable of video frequencies, I tried it with VGA aswell. And indeed, it displays PAL aswell (using 23pin to VGA adapter at Amiga end) But generally, most flatscreens aren't capable of displaying video frequencies. Many cannot even handle 320x240...

I think I have the same Dell monitor that you described above, but I never thought to try hooking it up to any of my Amigas. I will have to try it now, thanks!

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Amiga! The computer that inspired so many, to accomplish so much, but has ended up in the hands of . . . . . . . . . .

@amigadave

thx! Pc-Task will unfortunately only run W95, which I have OSR2 installed. I've not tried a 98 install though, I probably should try some time. (In case the docs were lying. ) Though Win 3.11 WFW works incredibly fast, W95 is really sluggish. I imagine 98 would be even slower.

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@MickJT

Quote:

Although, keep in mind, the Amigas output is analog anyway. So I don't see the point in converting to a digital signal :)

It shouldn't need to be converted. The OCS Amiga already did output digital on the RGB in 12-bit. I don't know with AGA but it should be outputting a 24-bit digital

So, it should be posible to take the digital out and just about connect it directly to the digital pins on the DVI plug.

@Jupp3

Quote:

I have a 20.1" 1600x1200 Dell monitor with DVI, VGA, Composite and Svideo inputs.

Is this just a monitor or LCD TV as well?

Good it can do PAL through VGA. My ViewSonic LCD TV only accepts the Amiga through VGA if it's interlaced. Some Phillips are also said to have this rare desirable feature.

OK, finally bought a second-hand LCD. Its an NEC AccuSync LCD72VX () display, and has an image clarity I've rarely seen on an Amiga before. I REALLY like it! Unfortunately, this thing is picky as hell over its Hsync and Vsync rates, and the resolution I've been using isn't supported. (1152x900x24bit) The closest res that is supported is 1152x870, which I'm willing to live with. It'll support 1280x1024, but my SVGA card will only use that in 16-bits. The following table was screengrabbed off the PDF spec sheet:

I've been using this chart to configure Picasso96Mode for the supported resolutions, which right now I'm using 1024x768x16 bit overscanned to 1152x900 until I get things tweaked just right. Then I'll go to 1152x870x24 bit. I have a few other issues with it, though.

1) 24-bit modes don't work right, I can get the h and v sync rates correct, but the screen flickeres and has a lot of garbage. Looks like HAM fringing on crack, with screen areas "copied" to where they shouldn't be.
Fixed, using the EDIT button I was able to tweak the settings until it stabalized

2) There's a bit of "burnt image" from the stores demo output, but this is mild and not a big deal. I thought this sort of thing only happened on phosphor-based CRT's.
Also fixed, looks like the "burn-in" is temporary, and will fade out with proper use of a screensaver

3) All my screenmodes configured in proggies that open their own need to be remapped. (Most of these are in NewMode, but other proggies are having trouble too, including my screensaver...)
Fixed, or at least in the process of being fixed.

4) New screenmodes added via Picasso96Mode don't work, either guru or lock my system. Probably a case of RTFM, though its kinda annoying just the same.

5) The DVI input is DVI-D, preventing me from wiring an RGB to DVI adapter. (Well, I could wire one, it just wouldn't work). Also, it won't do 15khz, so I still need the external scandoubler. (The scandoubler is designed for 16 bit RGB values, AGA uses 24 bits, resulting in a rather ugly "green shift", though the RGB values on the monitor can be adjusted to fix this a bit) Until I get an SVGA card capable of DVI-D output, I'll need to live with the clunky old VGA switch that I have.

6) This has cleared alot of desktop space, making me realize there's another model just like this at the store I got it from, and I can slap another SVGA card into my 1200T. (which I have another PCI card) My wife has since hidden the checkbook/debit cards shortly after informing her of this "problem".

Last edited by kvasir on 08-Nov-2009 at 06:49 AM.
Last edited by kvasir on 07-Nov-2009 at 06:59 PM.
Last edited by kvasir on 07-Nov-2009 at 06:25 PM.

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@kvasir

Quote:

The DVI input is DVI-D, preventing me from wiring an RGB to DVI adapter.

Not that it would be compatible but what would happen if you wired the Amiga RGB digital out to the DVI-D?

About the 15khz modes, does it refuse all modes this low, or will it display 15khz interlaced?

@Hypex

Quote:

Hypex wrote: @kvasir Quote: The DVI input is DVI-D, preventing me from wiring an RGB to DVI adapter. Not that it would be compatible but what would happen if you wired the Amiga RGB digital out to the DVI-D? About the 15khz modes, does it refuse all modes this low, or will it display 15khz interlaced?

I'm not sure if it would take the Amiga's digital feed, and if it could, it would only work in multiscan/dblpal/dbntsc/etc..., as I get the signal out of range error when it drops that low. (I've swapped the scandoubler out with a regular rgb to vga adapter and shot NTSC to it, though I didn't check interlace at all). With this setup, even if the digital feed is compatible, the scandoubler only works with the analog video lines, and it would get stripped out there. Perhaps with an Amiga specific scandoubler, it might work. (This thing was designed for an Atari)

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