Hi i could need help to write an open letter to both parts of the sweet Amiga-cake.

I have a solution to run PPC code in a ratio of 1/3(depending on configuration) nearly, including sound and Video.
What i would need is driver support inside the emulated OS.
I talked some time ago with Team Morphos about this but at this time we talked about qemu-patches( emulating a PEG) which is just too slow. And this time i can offer a solution to have personalized Keys controlled via the BIOS. .... i came up with this "new" idea as i worked on AROSbios...

A athlon64 3400+ reaches the speed of a SAM733. I can run Linux(PPC) as proof of concept.

My english is too bad to make a friendly non atacking anti-ppc statement ; ) I like PPC but we now in our heard that x86 is the way. I donÄt wan't to take damage on the X1000 but as soon we have a solution for a "slow" transition the better it is. Also A-EON could make in 2years a try - why not ; ) I'm working since i started the ARES project on the Ares2 aka "missing-link" the idea is to have a mix of old legacy ports and modern x86 Hardware. You can think of Catweazel-onboard if you like..... if there is interest i'm open for all.

Don't worry i love AROS and with Broadway i choose it as main OS for the AresOne... i will move to AROS64 asap.
Well IcAROS is the main os too ; ) customer is king!

Best regards,
Pascal

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@phoenixkonsole
you mean "you" know x86 is the way.
In the era of heterogeneous computing "the way" is GP-GPU and other forms of multiprocessing.

What Hyperion needs is to get access to such software infrastructures and in a couple of year put an X500 on the market that takes adavantage of them (low price hi-performance).

The X1000 is the bridge that leads there.

"x86 Amiga" is Aros (and its fantastic icaros distro) in this regard we only need to see how far and well it develops nothing more, nothing less...

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@phoenixkonsole

ahh... the Berniethlon2 ... kind of.

Also I think that NGAmigaOS on top of PPC emulation on top of x86 CPU should be one option to explore.
Amithlon once proved that it could give good results in terms of performance.

Later if PPC dies we could have a way forward anyway.

Last edited by KimmoK on 13-Jul-2010 at 10:38 AM.

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// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
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@phoenixkonsole

Quote:

have a solution to run PPC code in a ratio of 1/3

Impressive! Can you give us some benchmark results (eg. Blender, ffmpeg, lame etc.)?

@DAX

: ) ahh! How could i? Why using cheap already existing stuff if i can go for the next overprieced, not good supported because of low ressources, wrong idea....

You are right! Absolutely!

Just an offer.... and why should we let pass 2 -5years until "your" vision comes true?
By the way the emulation itself uses openCL already in parts

Last edited by phoenixkonsole on 13-Jul-2010 at 10:18 AM.

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@phoenixkonsole

You remind me of an idea I had today. FWIW. I was thinking if there was an Amiga answer to WINE. Such as APIE. Amiga Programming Interface Emulator. Okay I just made that up.

A software layer that emulates AmigaOS, Exec, Intution, etc. But might run on Windows or Mac even. Possibly Linux. The main code would need to be emulated but the "APIE" layer would translate OS calls to the native OS as expected. Only things like a window might look like a real Windows program. I don't know how these things work. APIE could just convert Reaction tags to GTK and use that as the GUI.

Now, as you might imagine, a more perfect way of doing this is using AROS as the host OS! Then the APIE layer would be more direct in the conversion, alowing it to simple translate to AROS.

So, what do you think? Do you like the idea of APIE? Hehe.

I like PowerPC too, but the X1000 scares me. And without UBoot how can I continue work on my A1 Linux installers? Ok the A1 needs replacing. I don't coinsider the Sam to be a replacemnt for my A1 as the Sam OS4 misses components (where is UBoot Prefs?) and doesn't have a proper PowerPC CPU. Not even a G4. Which is obsolete! But I'd still like a G4.

@DAX

Quote:

What Hyperion needs is to get access to such software infrastructures and in a couple of year put an X500 on the market that takes adavantage of them (low price hi-performance).

If his statement is true (1/3 of native speed), then Core i5 based X500 would be faster than even X1000! (And muuuch cheaper...)

@phoenixkonsole

I think instead of an open letter you should just join #morphos and have chat with the morphos developers. While I think such an approach will not be the most wanted option of all I also think they (at least some) will seriously discuss things with you.
The speed of a SAM7333 on an Atlon3400+ sounds not too shabby, but also not too overwhelming (there is plenty cheap G4 hardware). But it sounds like it would be pretty useable and then *I* would consider it useful and worth to get considered.
Posting that on amiga.org or morphzone.org may also be useful.

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@Phoenixkonsole

1/3 Speed ration is not so bad a on a fast x86.
What emulation are you talking about ?
PearPC ?

I like the Idea, but I dont have much hope that you get support from OS4 Developers.
It simply does'nt fit in their "Bussiness model" to run OS4 on anything else than self-made PowerPC Hardware.

MorphOS might be different as they sell their OS without Hardware anyway.

I think the only way to run OS4 and MorphOS on x86, would be to emulate a Pegasos 2 with Ati Graphics, but the Questions is, is it worth the effort ?


@DAX
Why do you have a problem with people that wants to run OS4 on actual Hardware ?
And what does this Thread has to do with GP-GPU ?

@Heinz

#morphos is a good advice thanks...

It is not PearPC and not qemu (too slow). ...... a hint: normally it emulates a very popular(not expensive) gaming system.

http://www.dolphin-emu.com/news.php

Last edited by phoenixkonsole on 13-Jul-2010 at 11:21 AM.

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@Zylesea

Quote:

Zylesea wrote: The speed of a SAM7333 on an Atlon3400+ sounds not too shabby, but also not too overwhelming (there is plenty cheap G4 hardware).

there is plenty more cheaper x86 hardware

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@A1200

I have to say that the emulation utilizes Dualcore and OpenCL... for example my AresOne was and is dualcore.... the new can be up to 6 core....

http://aros-exec.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?post_id=43943#forumpost43943

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@all

I think some of you are missing the point. An Athlon64 3400+ is not exactly top of the line x64 hardware. I myself am running a Athlon64 6000+ and that is atleast 1.5 years old...perhaps older.

That probably means my emulation would exceed a G4.

AMD has quad and hex core processors now. Mines is a lowly 'dual-core'.

@phoenixkonsole

Quote:

phoenixkonsole wrote: @Heinz #morphos is a good advice thanks... It is not PearPC and not qemu (too slow). ...... a hint: normally it emulates a very popular(not expensive) gaming system. http://www.dolphin-emu.com/news.php

LOL! Yes, a Wii emulating OS4. Oh the irony!
I proposed Wii ports of OS4 and MOS just to put it in the hands of hundreds of thousands of curious homebrew programmers and hackers. People wanting more could have 'upgraded' to 'real' hardware.

The Wii homebrew scene is quite large. Imagine giving those people a whole OS with all it's tools to play with. If their SDL and other APIs were ported to Amiga, it could be marketed to them as an HD-capable Wii.

@Lou

No you can't sell it as HD capable WII (legal problems, you would need to use some dumps of core-software from Nintendo) but the emulation is far better than the original permormance.

MOS on softmoded or even as official Virtualconsole-title would be an idea, as AROS or AmigaOS too btw.

That's the Task which i'm asking for....... porting AmigaOS / MorphOS to the "enhanced" Nintendo WII emulation. With a encrypted keyfile in Bios you can still control on which system mos /aos will run

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@phoenixkonsole

I cannot speak for the whole MorphOS Team, but personally I think emulating PowerPC to get MorphOS running on x86 is pointless. The OS will never benefit directly from the extra cores, so why bother?

@phoenixkonsole
If i was an Aros developer I would be offended by all this monstrous disregard to what they are doing, specially after they recently demonstrated how determined they are in delivering a top notch Amiga on x86 experience.

Hyperion on the other hand caters for a different crowd those that see Amiga as a fully boxed personal computer that achieves fast results using AmigaOS on computers specifically designed for it and that represent an alternative to the rest (what Amiga has always been in practice).

Win/Win situation there... (both lovers of x86 and custom machine paradigms are well catered).

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@jacadcaps

It could be muuuuch faster than Mac Mini?

@phoenixkonsole

Quote:

A athlon64 3400+ reaches the speed of a SAM733. I can run Linux(PPC) as proof of concept.

You can? On Dolphin? When did Dolphin gain MMU emulation?

@pavlor
I think the MOS community should be the least interested they already chose to get their OS on cheap used HW (you can get a 1.2Ghz G4 eMac for 80 eur these days), and quite frankly they still have many additional ultra cheap Apple machines to exploit.

So what would the advantage be? I bet MOS on a G5 would be faster than any emulation even on an i7 (of course it would be different if it was running natively on an i7).

Last edited by DAX on 13-Jul-2010 at 12:14 PM.

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SamFlex Complete 800Mhz System + AmigaOS 4.1 Update 4
Amiga 2000 DKB 2MB ChipRam GVP G-Force040 Picasso 2 OS3.9 BB2
AmigaCD 32