Hi guys,
i'm looking for drivers released few moths ago. I know about Elbox vs. Ratte conflict and i've seen the proper thread on A1k forum has been removed (i had no possibility to read Ratte's statement, which is probably interesting too...). Anyway, i just want to test it so if any good soul has it and is able to send me open-pci radeon.card file, i'd be very thankful.

@arti040

All I can find for reference here on AW is:

Prometheus PCI goes opensource

and the associated news item:

OpenPCI Radeon driver

I've got to believe there's one person in those threads who can help.

I gather this has nothing to do with the fixed DMA mediator.

#6

_________________
This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

@arti040

There's a reason this driver isn't available anymore. Even if Elbox doesn't respect other people's (copy)rights, we should respect theirs.

@cgutjahr

it the code in question is actually their copyright not open source, this hasnt been exactly clarified.

@wawa
Quote:

this hasnt been exactly clarified

Ratte doesn't want to discuss this in English forums (he thinks his English is not good enough).

I'm not going to explain my take on the situation as long as Ratte is not here to explain himself. But I discussed the issue with him in several E-Mails - and as I said, there is a reason this driver is no longer available. And I believe it's a very good and solid reason.

@cgutjahr

I know there IS a reason, but personally i think, we have too much "respect" for everything in our community and too less sanity...

One guy prepared something for free, in his free time, spent hours of work only to make us smile, to give us a little joy, to push our hobby little bit forward and boom! Elbox came and shut all mouths. I don't understand. I just wanted to try, to test. To play with it a little. Nothing more :/

Last edited by arti040 on 29-Mar-2013 at 11:06 PM.
Last edited by arti040 on 29-Mar-2013 at 11:05 PM.

@arti040
Quote:

Elbox came and shut all mouths

Look, I honestly don't want to be the one defending Elbox, but that remark is just silly.

Elbox claimed that big parts of the OpenPCI driver code were stolen from their Radeon driver. I discussed the issue with Ratte, and I'm here telling you there's a good reason the driver is no longer available.

You can either decide not to believe me (you don't know me, so I'M not expecting you to take my statement for the absolute truth just like that) or accept that you should apply more discreet measures for getting your hands on that driver.

But publicly blaming Elbox for not letting you pirate their IP is just... silly.

@cgutjahr

Yea, and because of Ratte, who used their code, they didn't sell 1000 Mediators...
But to be serious now - i want you to know, I uderstand all this mess and in NORMAL situation i'd blame Ratte not Elbox - he's fault is quite clear here, but let's be honest - it's not those times and it is not that market anymore, right? Also, radeon.card for Mediator bus boards it's not killer feature anymore too (was it?), especially w/o Warp3D driver (next one curio).

I know PR related things are completely black-magic on Amiga market, but in situation presented above Elbox should praise Ratte's skills in public and give him one of theirs bus board, so he could use driver legally. That's my opinion. Now everybody lost. Everybody but not Elbox. They are happy, because they saved the asset... which actually, is not an asset anymore. To no one. Maybe besides loyal, true users, who still wants to play with Amiga.

Last edited by arti040 on 29-Mar-2013 at 11:40 PM.
Last edited by arti040 on 29-Mar-2013 at 11:39 PM.

@arti040

Quote:

They are happy, because they saved the asset... which actually, is not an asset anymore.

You just described all amiga companies there since the collapse of Commodore.

#6

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This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

@number6

Yea, i know. I could blast 4 or 5 more examples out of hand...

@number6

Quote:

You just described all amiga companies there since the collapse of Commodore.

well said..

@arti040

Quote:

Yea, i know. I could blast 4 or 5 more examples out of hand

If only my list was so short...

#6

_________________
This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

@cgutjahr

Quote:

I'm not going to explain my take on the situation as long as Ratte is not here to explain himself. But I discussed the issue with him in several E-Mails - and as I said, there is a reason this driver is no longer available. And I believe it's a very good and solid reason.

if you say so, i trust there is..

@arti040

cmon, if you are so eager, why not contact elbox and try to intermediate. you have no language barrier like ratte and krakow isnt so far from lodz..

Last edited by wawa on 29-Mar-2013 at 11:52 PM.

@wawa

To contact and what? Offer 4000 Euro for a driver? Btw: it's been 8 months since i asked about one thing from their store. Still waiting for an answer

@arti040

Quote:

They are happy, because they saved the asset... which actually, is not an asset anymore.

Who made you the judge on what's an asset and what not?

First example that comes to mind: AROS bounties. Go check what kind of bounty money was earned with some of the drivers for AROS. A Radeon driver for AROS 68k, that supports various bus boards and could also be used under AmigaOS3/OpenPCI? That's an asset, as far as I'm concerned.

Another example: Schoenfeld goes crazy and finally builds a 68060 based accellerator with a GFX chip on board. He's going to have to license a driver somewhere.

Third example: the UltimatePPC team comes up with a new solution and this time they spend some time on research before deciding on the specs. What't the only sensible solution as far as GFX chips are concerned? And who could offer a license for a tested and mature driver?

Actually, the more time I spend thinking about it, the more it looks like you don't have much of a clue about what's called an asset.

@arti040

no, try to convince them, its only good for them to give the sources free. if they dont and have right to do so, we have to accept that.

Looking at some interesting post be it right or wrong about performance I just have a few questions about busboard(s).

Does any of them do DMA and is working?
Does any of them have 66Mhz and is working?

Is there benchmarks for any of the above questions?

Last edited by delshay on 30-Mar-2013 at 03:08 AM.

_________________
The Machine: Bride Of The Pin•Bot by Williams Electronics

Elbox is the pot calling the kettle black. At least that's what Chris Hodges might say.

Quote:

delshay wrote: Looking at some interesting post be it right or wrong about performance I just have a couple a few questions about busboard(s). Does any of them do DMA and is working?

The Mediator has working DMA but it's between PCI bus boards and not through the Zorro slots. There is only about 7-8MB/s PIO through ZorroIII as I recall.

Quote:

delshay wrote: Does any of them have 66Mhz and is working?

No. Elbox advertised 66MHz PCI bus operation only with some fantasy vapor ware accelerator.

Quote:

Is there benchmarks for any of the above questions?

There are benchmarks and test programs that show the gfx bus speed. It's not very impressive though. PCIinfo or OpenPCIinfo type programs could probably tell you what PCI bus speed is being used as well as if installed PCI card are even capable of 66MHz. Many are not. The Mediator does provide the fastest Amiga classic gfx to date. My Voodoo 4 is faster in 2D than a Picasso 4 or Cybervision64 (despite having a slower gfx bus) . It outperformed some early 2D Radeon benchmarks that Ratte did as well. It's faster in 2D and 3D than any other Amiga classic solution that I've seen so far. The 3D is quite fast as long as there is gfx mem for all the textures and it doesn't have to swap across the slow gfx bus. I get ~25fps with QuakeGL on a 68060 after all the textures are in the gfx memory. The Voodoo 3 is approximately the same speed, even a little faster for some operations. 2D speed pretty much hit it's limits while 3D speed has continued to improve. An Amiga 3D driver for the Radeon would be interesting even if it didn't support T&L which no Voodoo ever did.

P96 1.2 68060@75MHz AmigaOS 3.9 Mediator3000T/4000T+Voodoo4 640x480x8:

RectFill()=27546 RectFill() Pattern=22952
WritePixel()=207772 WriteChunkyPixels()=636
WritePixelArray8()=628 WritePixelLine8()=31303
DrawEllipse()=10734 DrawCircle()=12544
Draw()=36049 Draw() Hor/Ver=41257
SrcollRaster() X=3108 ScrollRaster() Y=3178
Text()=15760 BltBitMap()=26164
BltBitMapRastPort()=17771 BitMapScaling()=75
OpenWindow()=181 MoveWindow()=1292
SizeWindow()=275 CON-Output=2019
ScreenToFront()=104

My CSMK3 has overclocked CPU and memory but not motherboard/Zorro or SCSI. Ratte's Radeon was faster at scrolling as I recall but most of the numbers above are better. Pretty respectable for a classic Amiga ;).

Last edited by matthey on 30-Mar-2013 at 03:52 AM.

@arti040

that is one of the reasons why I decided myself for supporting AROS. Free ROMs, a free OS. No company or developer is able to hinder progress anymore and the community can decide where it goes and help to develop. There were (and are) too many big EGOs in the community and I have the impression that (in too many cases) people were more eager to make lawsuits and attack each other than to talk with each other and work together. The only answer can be to take them the toys out of their hands or (to be more precise) to replace their toys with opensource.