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      /  JPEG Backdrop won't load
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spudmiga 
JPEG Backdrop won't load
Posted on 14-Nov-2015 23:31:33
#1 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 12-Dec-2002
Posts: 855
From: England, United Kingdom

Hello Amigans,

A problem has been bugging me for several weeks, and after many a hour head scratching and tinkering I can't get to the bottom of it.

My set up is rather simple; a stock A1200 (which I aim to do something about when funds permit) running 3.1 from a CF Card.

I have got an Indivision so have a nice 1024x768 Workbench running in 16 colours, however I would like to change the backdrop from the grey to something more exciting.

I have been using the MagicWB patterns for a while, which load fine and quick being IFF's, but I wanted to try something else, though nimble enough for my current setup.

I have some gif files which load no problem, but the file sizes are bigger than jpeg.

Try as I may, I can't get any JPEG backdrops to load.

I have deleted JPEG datatypes, re-installed, tried different JPEG datatypes, to no avail.

Does 3.1 even support JPEG backdrops? I am sure it does I used to use them on my old setup.

It's getting irritating though now.
As I say, IFF's, GIF's, no problem. If I try to load a JPEG I get an error "can't load boing.jpg".



I tried renaming the files .jpeg instead of .jpg but made no difference.

Anyone want to help me?
I am sure it's a daft and easy problem to fix but it's irritating

P.S. have already tried WarpDT-JPEG version May 2015 and updating pictures.library to v43 but had to roll back to v40 after it stopped even loading .IFF backdrops! So I am back at v40.

Someone help please

Kind regards,
Spud.

Last edited by spudisgood on 14-Nov-2015 at 11:45 PM.

_________________
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A1200 020/28MHz + 64Mb / 4Gb CF / OS 3.1.4.1 / 1438S
A500+ / 2Mb
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petrol 
Re: JPEG Backdrop won't load
Posted on 15-Nov-2015 0:08:05
#2 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 25-Jun-2004
Posts: 411
From: France

@spudisgood

Did you reboot after the datatype installation?
Is multiview load the picture?

Regards,

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cgutjahr 
Re: JPEG Backdrop won't load
Posted on 15-Nov-2015 0:20:24
#3 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 969
From: Unknown

@spudisgood

Quote:

Does 3.1 even support JPEG backdrops?

3.1 loads whatever your datatypes can handle.

Indivision gives you nice resolutions - but it doesn't give you more chip RAM. That might be the reason for your problem: You might simply not have enough chip RAM left for loading the entire JPEG picture.

You shouldn't use JPEG pictures on a 16 color Workbench anyway: In that case, the OS has to do the color reduction on the fly - and the results are ugly. Plus it slows down the whole loading process even more.

Load your JPEG into a paint program of your choice, reduce it to 16 colours (or twelve colours, since you need four for the GUI) and save it as IFF. problem (hopefully) solved.

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spudmiga 
Re: JPEG Backdrop won't load
Posted on 15-Nov-2015 0:39:43
#4 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 12-Dec-2002
Posts: 855
From: England, United Kingdom

@petrol

Quote:

petrol wrote:
@spudisgood

Did you reboot after the datatype installation?
Is multiview load the picture?

Regards,


YES to both.

It's just the WBPattern prefs that seems to have the problem!

_________________
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Night Operations

A1200 020/28MHz + 64Mb / 4Gb CF / OS 3.1.4.1 / 1438S
A500+ / 2Mb
A600

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spudmiga 
Re: JPEG Backdrop won't load
Posted on 15-Nov-2015 0:44:13
#5 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 12-Dec-2002
Posts: 855
From: England, United Kingdom

@cgutjahr

I know about the chip RAM problem all too well, which is why the JPEG files I'm trying are only small, this one in particular I'm trying is only 5k! My IFF backdrops are 20k and load fine with no problems, so I can't see memory being a problem?

My bigger GIF files can be up to 80k and also load fine (eventually).

I have the full pallete installed, unfortunately I only have Personal Paint 7 installed and it won't run on my setup and Deluxe Paint III which only supports ILBM format so cannot convert any JPEGs to 16 colours.

I might just take the plunge to 3.9 once I get an accelerator and some extra memory, it's getting on my nerves lol.

Spud.

_________________
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A1200 020/28MHz + 64Mb / 4Gb CF / OS 3.1.4.1 / 1438S
A500+ / 2Mb
A600

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cgutjahr 
Re: JPEG Backdrop won't load
Posted on 15-Nov-2015 1:16:26
#6 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 969
From: Unknown

@spudisgood

Quote:

this one in particular I'm trying is only 5k! My IFF backdrops are 20k

File size doesn't matter since the JPEG format is compressed.

Your JPEG picture is 1024x768 in truecolor - i.e. it contains lots of color information you don't need since you're only using 16 colors. 1024x768x3 (3 bytes of color information per pixel) that's 2304 KB if I'm not mistaken - i.e. definitely too big for the amount of chip RAM you have.

I'm not sure how (or rather, where) a datatype extracts your JPEG picture, but I'd say that's the cause of your problem.

Quote:

so cannot convert any JPEGs to 16 colours.

You could try CLI based converters on the Amiga - NetPBM should work, but that's sort of complicated. Why not use the PC?

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spudmiga 
Re: JPEG Backdrop won't load
Posted on 15-Nov-2015 8:12:13
#7 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 12-Dec-2002
Posts: 855
From: England, United Kingdom

@cgutjahr

Quote:

cgutjahr wrote:

File size doesn't matter since the JPEG format is compressed.

Your JPEG picture is 1024x768 in truecolor - i.e. it contains lots of color information you don't need since you're only using 16 colors. 1024x768x3 (3 bytes of color information per pixel) that's 2304 KB if I'm not mistaken - i.e. definitely too big for the amount of chip RAM you have.



That's interesting, thanks - so basically all of these people who have AGA backdrops are not using JPEG files at all - or they have converted them first.
Would upping the colours to 32 have much impact?

Quote:


You could try CLI based converters on the Amiga - NetPBM should work, but that's sort of complicated. Why not use the PC?



I don't have a PeeCee
I will look into NetPBM, thanks for the info!

Kind regards,
Spud.

_________________
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Night Operations

A1200 020/28MHz + 64Mb / 4Gb CF / OS 3.1.4.1 / 1438S
A500+ / 2Mb
A600

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pavlor 
Re: JPEG Backdrop won't load
Posted on 15-Nov-2015 8:25:19
#8 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9642
From: Unknown

@spudisgood

I fear cgutjahr is right. Convert your pictures to IFF with lower colour depth. If you don´t use fixed palette for 16 colour WB, even converted picture may look wrong.

Edit: You don´t have any Fast RAM? That is great problem for viewing of bigger pitures (even if you can patch WB to use Fast RAM for this purpose) - 1024x768 24 bit picture requires more RAM than 2 MB you have with stock A1200!

Last edited by pavlor on 15-Nov-2015 at 08:29 AM.
Last edited by pavlor on 15-Nov-2015 at 08:27 AM.

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itix 
Re: JPEG Backdrop won't load
Posted on 15-Nov-2015 9:07:17
#9 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world

@cgutjahr

Quote:

Your JPEG picture is 1024x768 in truecolor - i.e. it contains lots of color information you don't need since you're only using 16 colors. 1024x768x3 (3 bytes of color information per pixel) that's 2304 KB if I'm not mistaken - i.e. definitely too big for the amount of chip RAM you have.


It would load fine if he had some fast ram available (chip ram is only used for displaying). But decoding JPEG on a stock Amiga 1200 is sloooooooooow.....

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Severin 
Re: JPEG Backdrop won't load
Posted on 15-Nov-2015 13:14:26
#10 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Aug-2003
Posts: 2740
From: Gloucestershire UK

@spudisgood

You MUST put some fastram in there if you want to do anything remotely pretty

I also suggest you get a harddrive for it, try asking on freecycle for 'ancient laptops'

As for the picture... ppaint would give you the best results but it's not going to work on your machine. if you want me to convert it for you I'll be happy to see what I can do. email the jpg to spudgun at x1k dottyco dottyuk


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cgutjahr 
Re: JPEG Backdrop won't load
Posted on 15-Nov-2015 14:44:09
#11 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 969
From: Unknown

@ispudisgood:

Wow, I totally missed that you have no fast RAM... That's insane:

1. Fast RAM will make your machine faster, since the CPU has exclusive access to it while it has to share access to chip RAM with the custom chips.

2. If you plan on running anything from harddisk, having no fast RAM will be a problem.

And one more thing: The Indivision will use the 20 year old AGA chipset that was meant to handle resolutions like hires or 640x480 at most to produce a 1024x768 resolution. That will always be sloooow and eat up a lot of chip RAM. It might look nice on screenshots, but its practical use is extremely limited.

Not to mention that all games and many, many applications you are going to try will completely ignore your nice 1024x768 screen mode insist on using hires or lores screen modes. IMHO: make sure your Indivision/Monitor combination displays hires/lores properly, and forget about anything beyond that. Especially with just a 68020 CPU.

Personally, I don't like these wannabe setups anyway. 1024x768 is horribly outdated these days. Having an Amiga emulate a modern desktop will always make it look like a cheap copy that pales in comparison to 'real' computers.

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Deniil715 
Re: JPEG Backdrop won't load
Posted on 16-Nov-2015 8:47:08
#12 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-May-2003
Posts: 4237
From: Sweden

@spudisgood

Quote:
I know about the chip RAM problem all too well, which is why the JPEG files I'm trying are only small, this one in particular I'm trying is only 5k! My IFF backdrops are 20k and load fine with no problems, so I can't see memory being a problem?


That's the compressed size. It tells nothing about the uncompressed size. Jpeg compress everything way harder than anything else. But if you jpeg is 5k, I'd say its pretty small and designed to repeat as a pattern, right, not fill the background as one image, right?

Anyway. Try to load the picture in Multiview. If that doesn't work (might give you a better error message as well) your datatype have a problem, or you're out of memory.
Edit: Noticed it does work in Multiview.

PPaint 7 should start if you edit some settings such that it is aware of only having chip RAM I think. But getting an accelerator and some more RAM would make your Amiga experience a lot nicer

Last edited by Deniil715 on 16-Nov-2015 at 08:56 AM.

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> Amiga Classic and OS4 developer for OnyxSoft.

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pavlor 
Re: JPEG Backdrop won't load
Posted on 16-Nov-2015 23:31:45
#13 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9642
From: Unknown

@spudisgood

If you like MagicWB icons style (I see you have them), you can set only 8 colour palette and use some of many backdrops for MagicWB. It may look like this:



I prefer rather more colourful icons (GlowIcons images) with less colours for backdrops (MagicWB). However, 1024x768 resolution will eat more Chip RAM than 640x400/512 I have on my A1200. To get most of your A1200 I recommend some CPU card with Fast RAM (best for WHDLoad or any experiments you would try for your entertainment). You don´t need OS3.5/3.9 for nice looking Workbench, OS3.0/3.1 can be patched by utils like NewIcons for colourful icons support, result may look like this:

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spudmiga 
Re: JPEG Backdrop won't load
Posted on 20-Nov-2015 14:21:34
#14 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 12-Dec-2002
Posts: 855
From: England, United Kingdom

@pavlor

Thanks for the response people!

I have given up on the JPEG idea, just sticking to simple 16 colour Magic WB / IFF bg with locked pallette. It is enough for me to run programs that only need 1mb from the CF card.

I am working on getting an accelerator when funds permit, I will keep the Amiga to basic use until I can afford a more powerful set up.

Kind regards,
Spud.

_________________
Founder of NWAG - North West Amiga Group

Night Operations

A1200 020/28MHz + 64Mb / 4Gb CF / OS 3.1.4.1 / 1438S
A500+ / 2Mb
A600

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spudmiga 
Re: JPEG Backdrop won't load
Posted on 20-Nov-2015 14:23:05
#15 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 12-Dec-2002
Posts: 855
From: England, United Kingdom

@cgutjahr

Quote:

cgutjahr wrote:


Personally, I don't like these wannabe setups anyway. 1024x768 is horribly outdated these days. Having an Amiga emulate a modern desktop will always make it look like a cheap copy that pales in comparison to 'real' computers.


I have to disagree!

1024 x 768 through my new Benq 17" monitor looks fantastic, even with the basic colour scheme

_________________
Founder of NWAG - North West Amiga Group

Night Operations

A1200 020/28MHz + 64Mb / 4Gb CF / OS 3.1.4.1 / 1438S
A500+ / 2Mb
A600

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spudmiga 
Re: JPEG Backdrop won't load
Posted on 20-Nov-2015 14:26:26
#16 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 12-Dec-2002
Posts: 855
From: England, United Kingdom

@Severin

Quote:

Severin wrote:
@spudisgood



I also suggest you get a harddrive for it, try asking on freecycle for 'ancient laptops'



I have a 4gb CF card installed which is ample for my needs, and after getting used to it being nice and quet and fast I don't want to go back to a hard drive

Quote:
. email the jpg to spudgun at x1k dottyco dottyuk


Thanks for the offer! But I am no longer persuing the JPEG backdrop, not worth the hassle until I get myself an accelerator and more memory.

Kind regards,
Spud.

_________________
Founder of NWAG - North West Amiga Group

Night Operations

A1200 020/28MHz + 64Mb / 4Gb CF / OS 3.1.4.1 / 1438S
A500+ / 2Mb
A600

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Severin 
Re: JPEG Backdrop won't load
Posted on 20-Nov-2015 17:44:36
#17 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Aug-2003
Posts: 2740
From: Gloucestershire UK

@spudisgood

Quote:
I have a 4gb CF card installed which is ample for my needs, and after getting used to it being nice and quet and fast I don't want to go back to a hard drive


Just remeber, if you get more than 4mb of fast ram you will lose the PCMCIA slot as the additional ram maps to the PCMCIA addresses... If you want to run the bigger amiga games using whdload for example you really need 8mb of fastram to make it all run smoothly or so I've heard, I had an A4000 so stuck 16mb on the mobo and later got 040 and 060 accelerators and put 128mb on them, added a picasso-iv, lovely system, now I'm using an X1000 and have a Sam Flex as backup.

To be honest real amiga hardware is not worth the expense and hassle anymore. use a cheap windows machine if you can stand to have one in the house (I Can't) and run winuae or look round for a used Sam Flex and stick OS4.1FE on it.

Edit: Send me the file anyway, it'll be interesting to see what I can get it down to and still look ok.

Last edited by Severin on 20-Nov-2015 at 05:45 PM.

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pavlor 
Re: JPEG Backdrop won't load
Posted on 20-Nov-2015 17:55:21
#18 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9642
From: Unknown

@Severin

Quote:
Just remeber, if you get more than 4mb of fast ram you will lose the PCMCIA slot as the additional ram maps to the PCMCIA addresses...


Many CPU cards are PCMCIA friendly - eg. Blizzard1230IV I have in my A1200.

Quote:
To be honest real amiga hardware is not worth the expense and hassle anymore.


Some of us don´t share your opinion...


To be fair, 68030 + Fast RAM is probably sweet spot of A1200 expansion - to play most games and try good old applications. It probably doesn´t make sense to waste money for 68040/68060 etc. (big money in this case!).

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