@whose + @elwood

Fair answers!

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@elwood and whose

Good points. I'd like to add that developers looking for a project to contribute to could look at JAmiga, Amizilla (Firefox), AWeb and the OpenOffice effort. JAmiga in particular could use more coders and you definitely don't need OS4 hardware to work on that one. Someone could, for example, work on a generic Applet plugin framework that browser developers could then use to write a Java Applet plugin for their browsers. An Applet plugin would make our browsers more usable as there are still enough sites out there that use Applets.

Hans

_________________
http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more. Home of the RadeonHD driver for Amiga OS 4.x project.
https://keasigmadelta.com/ - More of my work.

@elwood

Quote:

If I wasn't sure hardware is coming, I wouldn't waste my time talking here :-/

You are 100% sure of that?

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Sam

@-Sam-

Quote:

You are 100% sure of that?

That's the thing isn't it. I think the silence is doing more damage than anything else.

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@elwood

I think it's the "natural" solution for our (perhaps temporary) problem. This way it is even possible to develop "professional" software (speak: non-open-source, licensed and paid software), if people do not expect TOO much. Amiga market is a (very) low profit market ATM but I think it is still possible to raise it to a much higher level, if people learn to work together for this goal.

If they really want to do it, it's the wrong way to compare AmigaOS with Win/Lin endlessly and complain about the lack oft software and hardware IMHO. Hardware is not so easy to build, but for software, everybody who wants to take his part of the work is able to do it.

They, we, have the tools, let's use them.

I'm really eager to hear the comments of the people involved in the hardware question, if OS4 users could show them lots of Software for it. With raising demand for hardware (even more then today, although I think today there is already quite high demand for it) there would be a high pressure on them to provide hardware as fast as possible and in every possible way. But the first step is "AmigaOS only" software, open source software isn't strong enough (IMHO), and this software can only be developed by teams of people who know exactly what they really wish to have.

Greetz

@Gleng

Quote:

That's the thing isn't it. I think the silence is doing more damage than anything else.

Exactly. It is a situation that breeds little confidence.

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Sam

@-Sam-

It all comes down to: I didn't buy an A1 since I thought it was too expensive, too old... well... now you want one and you can't get one...

then you need to wait! What's been said is that AOS 4 will be launched once new hardware are available and AOS 4 is ready! .... don't want to wait? Well... who's to blame?

@elwood

Being deeply involved in the mozilla project, it is clear to me that no firefox on the amiga platform is a showstopper. The things I am ready to do in the opensource world are not the same as the ones in the proprietary world. Linux exists because its opensource nature makes people contribute to it (including myself) and they benefit back from it. AmigaOS isn't an opensource OS so there is very little incentive to work for free for it.

Actually, hyperion doesn't look interested in supporting these initiatives, if you want my opinion, when you have a dying platform with a crucial lack of basic mainstream applications, the very least would be to officially say that you support these initiativces and that the people that will have contributed to port these key applications to your platform would get AOS4 for free.

BTW, ODF is an ISO standard, I use it all the time since I live mostly in the Linux world, several of my clients in the French administration use this format as well, so yes, it's important to support open multiploatform standards, just as jpeg is supported.

@elwood

I will never surrender. I'm your Amigapope.

_________________
AmigaOne X1000 1,8 Ghz/2 GB Ram + Radeon 6670 2 GB + AmigaOS4.1
A4000T CyberstormPPC 604e-200Mhz/060/128MB+CybervisionPPC 8MB + AmigaOS4
and anymore other Amigas...

@elwood
Quote:

Every action for OS4 is something done not for the others, but for you. Don't wait, act now!

Just finished porting and fixing up lpd so I could print from my Mac to my A1. Hopefully others will find it useful as well. It was really hard to actually accomplish something positive and not take a cheap shot a Hyperion's contract which I know nothing about but I managed it.

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ExecSG Team Lead

@hotrod

Quote:

It all comes down to: I didn't buy an A1 since I thought it was too expensive, too old... well... now you want one and you can't get one...

It most certainly does not come down to that. As those that have an A1 are still in a similar position as there is no guarantee that the Amiga will continue for them either. Without new hardware it's all over.

There is no way on this earth I will buy an unfinished pre-release product. I want to wait for an official release which includes the hardware. I don't want all of the annoyances that come with beta releases. If this can be achieved then the Amiga will get the support it deserves.

Quote:

then you need to wait!

What other choice do we have? It's just that you do tend to wish it would all just end and stop dragging on year after year.

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Sam

@elwood

Quote:

Every action for OS4 is something done not for the others, but for you. Don't wait, act now!

I did just port the very old version of autoconf (2.13) ... I have no use of this (but was asked to get it to work)

_________________
Best regards,
hnl_dk - Henning Nielsen Lund [Denmark]

Please send no PM to me, email me if you want to contact me. See you somewhere else.

@ssolie
Quote:

Just finished porting and fixing up lpd so I could print from my Mac to my A1.

Why would you do that - is there some printer that OS4 supports that OS X doesn't? Conversely, why use the Mac at all?

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Here for the whimpering end

@jorkany
Quote:

Why would you do that - is there some printer that OS4 supports that OS X doesn't? Conversely, why use the Mac at all?

This is off topic. Please PM if you wish to discuss.

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ExecSG Team Lead

@Thread

There is no reason to get into a whole debate about leaving and staying. I for one have set a reallistic time line and I think that everyone should just cool down for a minuet and think things out.

If no Amiga hardware appears (I have a deadline till october) or is in the hand of several betata testers then for those who can't wait any longer have to make their decision and those who choose to stay stay.

In my opinion and this is my opinion I think something will materialize but will I be Happy with what I see is another question.

Either way Amiga will always hold a special place in my heart wether I stay or go.

@corwin

Quote:

AmigaOS isn't an opensource OS so there is very little incentive to work for free for it.

Huh? You can't work for an OS you like, just because it is commercial?
Anything you can do to make the OS live longer is good because it is good for you before being good for the OS owner.
It is just a matter of what *you* want.

_________________
Philippe 'Elwood' Ferrucci
Sam460 1.10 Ghz
AmigaOS 4 betatester
Amiga Translator Organisation

@elwood
Sure, where can I download/buy AOS4 to help it?
AOS4 is not available, my old classic amiga is now dead, what should I do ? Buy an expensive second hand machine with no guarantee that it will last untill new hardware is available ? Too late, I bought my laptop 8 months ago, my savings are now invested.

Everything I do is related to web technologies, the amiga browsers don't support the most basic web technologies. Should I abandon my opensource work on mozilla technologies which has an impact on tens of millions of users and can potentially impact almost everybody with a computer on earth so as to use this time to work on opensource project s for a closed-source OS used by a few hundred people at best and with no prospect of even a minimal growth in the future? Of course not.

As much as I like amigaOS, an OS is here to help me do my work, not the other way around.

@corwin

Unfortunately we have no idea when AOS4 will have new hardware available to run on. In the meantime you could get AmigaForever or UAE and AmiKit to emulate a classic machine. Get AmiDevCPP (just use google to find it) to set up a dev environment for AmigaOS on your laptop and develop Amiga software.

That's if you want to develop software for the Amiga. If not, find something else to do. Your work with Mozilla will eventually be of use to us as well when Firefox is finally ported.

Hans

_________________
http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more. Home of the RadeonHD driver for Amiga OS 4.x project.
https://keasigmadelta.com/ - More of my work.

@elwood

>> AmigaOS isn't an opensource OS so there is very little incentive to work for free for it.

> Huh? You can't work for an OS you like, just because it is commercial?

Of course you can write software for any commercial OS in your free time, but developers are less and less inclined to do so. The difference with open source efforts is that they are not in the hands of a few individuals which control of the course of your contribution, or even sink it out of stupidity. When I'm starting a large project today, I'm making sure that my effort isn't endangered by a third-party dependency or point of failure.

What makes things worse is that the Amiga programming interfaces are quite different from the world outside, which basically breaks down to the POSIX, Win32, Dot Net, Java and several scripting language domains -- of which only few are fully supported on the Amiga. Development-wise, everything Amiga (MorphOS, AROS too) is practically dead, because all enthusiasm is based on a prospect for the wellbeing and longevity of your efforts. It's difficult to get your behind up for a large project anyway, but for the Amiga and its derivatives it's close to hopeless at the moment.

If it's for a closed environment, then I prefer to code for money, so that I'm getting a compensation for the loss of control over my work. Of course that's just my point of view, other developers may still move any mountain for the Amiga any time they like...

_________________
Eagerly awaiting the X1000

@corwin

I seems clear to me that you prefer to work for Linux (or Mozilla) so I don't know why we discuss in the first place

_________________
Philippe 'Elwood' Ferrucci
Sam460 1.10 Ghz
AmigaOS 4 betatester
Amiga Translator Organisation