Hi,

Just wanted to share an idea. I think that any platform that want to be mainstream has to be able to run Windows. Apple made the Mac platform moving entirely on x86.
I was just thinking that we could imagine an expansion board that could bring Windows, Linux x86 compatibility to X1000 while enhancing Amiga capabilities.
I explain, the board would consist of a x86 CPU (eventually memory as well to have fast access to ram)connected to the Xorro port of the X1000 and Xena/Xcore would manage the I/O of the board so that all the boards and features on the Amiga side (graphics card, sound card, ethernet, usb port...) would be used by Windows when starting the machine in "PC" mode. I think the Emplant board in old amiga days was working this way although the 68k CPU was share with the Amiga.
On Amiga side, the x86 CPU could be used as a powerful coprocessor like the PPC boards for Amiga classic.
I like the idea of the Amiga being Windows compatible while keeping the PPC architecture as its basis and using x86 power in a slave way

What do you think?

@Seblam

Nice idea to use x86 musclepower, much better then adding XMOS CPus to cluster. Would buy it but there would need to be a software that would JIT PowerPC instructions to x86 to make it co-processor or other mechanism how to use x86 at all.

Some AMD CPU without GFX or even some high end cheap x86 like VIA
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VIA_Technologies#Processors
Could be used.

Now Rosetta is no longer part of MacOS X
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosetta_(software)
Maybe we could licence it?

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@vox

I was thinking about state of the art i5 or i7 so as to have a powerful PC and a killer coprocessor on Amiga side

@Seblam

Also I have brought this kind of (re-invented bridgeboard) idea up a few times.

You can use any mini size x86 board as an accelerator inside Amiga case. Alreasy there are things like screamernet to use the x86 to accelerate rendering. RDesktop to use win apps, WinUAE, etc... (the old siamese system is not usable any more, but perhaps cluster uk delivers siamese NG one day)
Connection via 1Gbit ethernet should be enough.

With that kind of setup one could start to make more SW to utilize the foreign CPU. (examples: compile cluster, other render clusters, DVD/blueray encoding cluster, blueray decoding streamer, etc.)

Another grazy way might be to set xena to handle keyboard/mouse simulation towards the x86 board. And for faster than 1Gb ethernet connection one could make PCIe x86 card (or adapt one of the existing)

(note that PA6T-xena bus might be able to handle DMA to both directions etc, but only up to some 30MB/sec. 1GB ethernet can be faster and with jumbo frames the overhead might not be too big.)

I think for x86 HW there now exist some interesting single board computers, beside "normal" mini-itx boards. And I think I even saw a i7 SOC cpu on a PCIe card ...my old thread

Last edited by KimmoK on 05-Aug-2012 at 07:01 PM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 05-Aug-2012 at 06:58 PM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 05-Aug-2012 at 06:55 PM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 05-Aug-2012 at 06:54 PM.

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@Seblam

Quote:

I explain, the board would consist of a x86 CPU (eventually memory as well to have fast access to ram)connected to the Xorro port of the X1000 and Xena/Xcore ... What do you think?

Xena and Xorro would be a cumbersome and slow way and it would block a x86 CPU from full Ram access.

AFAIK the A1X1K has a PCIe slot with much higher bandwith and a defined protocoll that sgould accept standard PCIe CPU cards like this:
http://www.ieiworld.com/product_groups/industrial/content.aspx?gid=00001000010000000001&cid=08141333914287007902&id=08142308605814597144#.UB7H7UjvVaQ

But without fitting drivers and cross system application this card would make less sense than a standard x86 PC couplled with the A1X1K via Ethernet .

But maybe buying a standard x86 system and adding a PPC card would be cheaper but you have to ask Hyperion for system support first.

_________________
AmigaONE. Haha. Just because you can put label on it does not make it Amiga.

I borrowed this comments from here (#27 & #28):
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=38873&forum=2&start=20&order=0

@Arko

I was thinking that Xorro had same bandwith as normal PCIe but with direct access to Xena??
But you're right for the drivers, still the same problem

@KimmoK

Interesting will have a more detail look on the thread

@Seblam

Quote:

I was thinking about state of the art i5 or i7 so as to have a powerful PC and a killer coprocessor on Amiga side

Nah, some cheap chip with decent speed x2 fater then PA Semi would do the thing
Or do both low end and high end.

Also using PCI-E x1 slot which is unused on OS 4 systems, would ease up the thing. Especially if it shares resources in style of old Zorro PC cards, or adds 100% PC compatibility

Last edited by vox on 05-Aug-2012 at 08:39 PM.

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YT http://www.youtube.com/user/rasvoja

@vox

Quote:

Nah, some cheap chip with decent speed x2 fater then PA Semi would do the thing

Today, It will be realy hard to find such slow x86 CPU (except Atom). Common i5 CPUs are roughly 8-10 times faster than PA6T in single core operations.

@pavlor

Quote:

Today, It will be realy hard to find such slow x86 CPU (except Atom). Common i5 CPUs are roughly 8-10 times faster than PA6T in single core operations.

OK I meant some VIA design or low end AMD would do the magic, especially if it brings x64 compatibility like old Zorro cards.

Off course, some i7 four cores model + could be offered, but some of us don`t make thousands of euros, but hundreds.

_________________
OS 3.x AROS and MOS supporter, fi di good, nothing fi di unprofessionalism. Learn it harder way!
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YT http://www.youtube.com/user/rasvoja

@vox

Quote:

Off course, some i7 four cores model + could be offered, but some of us don`t make thousands of euros, but hundreds

Even Core 2 in 5 years old computer of my father is 4 times faster than PA6T in single core operations. Performance gap between x86 and "desktop" PowerPC CPUs is realy wide.

I think it would make alot more sense to have a PPC PCIe card for x86 machines.

@pavlor

Quote:

Even Core 2 in 5 years old computer of my father is 4 times faster than PA6T in single core operations. Performance gap between x86 and "desktop" PowerPC CPUs is realy wide.

I do believe you are comparing 2006 laptop series G5 CPU with later Intel ones. Even mentioned Core2Duo might be younger then PA Semi.

To really see performance gap testing against high end desktop dual core G5 {PPC MacPro). Sony`s Cell or similar newer 64 bit PPC would be needed, with both tests not using MMX/SEE and Altivec, or both tests using them.

Nevermind, x86 acccelerator as well as x64 compatibility would be nice. And it doesnt have to be fastest CPU in universe, just some x86, like last VIA models.

_________________
OS 3.x AROS and MOS supporter, fi di good, nothing fi di unprofessionalism. Learn it harder way!
SinclairQL and WII U lover :D
YT http://www.youtube.com/user/rasvoja

@Pendergast

Quote:

I think it would make alot more sense to have a PPC PCIe card for x86 machines.

Again PCI-E x1 since PCI-E 16x is needed for GFX.

Yes, if someone can make G4 class card with 1GB RAM or ability to use system RAM and Radeon HD alongside MorphOS and AmigaOS 4.2 licenced, would be happy to buy it,
http://www.varisys.co.uk/vs145.html

Varisys already has the card, but none of the teams (AROS, AmigaOS 4, MorphOS) hasn`t even mentioned it.

If you think of the smartest solution,
MOS and OS4 team should licence and port http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosetta_(software)

and start working on x64 native version of AmigaOS 5 that can ran old
MorphOS and AmigaOS 4 apps just like with Petunia JIT

_________________
OS 3.x AROS and MOS supporter, fi di good, nothing fi di unprofessionalism. Learn it harder way!
SinclairQL and WII U lover :D
YT http://www.youtube.com/user/rasvoja

@vox

Quote:

I do believe you are comparing 2006 laptop series G5 CPU with later Intel ones. Even mentioned Core2Duo might be younger then PA Semi.

Core 2 Q6600 was released by Intel in January 2007, even before PA6T (February 2007/Q4 2007 according to Wikipedia).

Quote:

To really see performance gap testing against high end desktop dual core G5 {PPC MacPro). Sony`s Cell or similar newer 64 bit PPC would be needed

As you wish:

PPU in Cell scores 423 SpecInt2000 (single core performance according to IBM).
Core 2 Q6600 scores 2500 SpecInt2000 (single core performance).
Most powerful G5 CPU (970MP) scores 1587 SpecInt2000 (single core performance).

Single core performance of common i5/i7 CPUs is more than 2 times better (in sense Y=2*X) than Core 2 Q6600.

@pavlor

>PPU in Cell scores 423 SpecInt2000 (single core performance according to IBM).
>Core 2 Q6600 scores 2500 SpecInt2000 (single core performance).
>Most powerful G5 CPU (970MP) scores 1587 SpecInt2000 (single core performance).

The G5 was 3Ghz chip, I assume.

And for PA6T:
"greater than 750 SPECint®2000 and 1500 SPECfp®2000 performance." per core at 1.8Ghz?
(from one of PA semi's customer's info pdf)

>Single core performance of common i5/i7 CPUs is more than 2 times better (in sense Y=2*X) than Core 2 Q6600.

I wonder if that is mainly because of hyperthreading of i5/i7?

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@KimmoK

Quote:

The G5 was 3Ghz chip, I assume.

970MP 2.5 GHz (2 cores, 1 MB L2 cache per core).

Quote:

And for PA6T:

My estimation - around 550 SpecInt2000 for PA6T 1.8 GHz; according to benchmark results posted by X1000 owners.

Quote:

I wonder if that is mainly because of hyperthreading of i5/i7?

Single core, single thread. Eg. CPU emulation in DosBox is on Core i5 of my brother 2 times faster than on Core 2 of my father.