In light of the fact that it seems several have a gripe with each other in the Genesi interested in AOS thread, put it here. May be locked at any time, but until then, you think you're being 'slighted' or your views 'distorted,' and feel so strongly you have to let the world know, here's a place to do it.

Note- there are still limits. Flame away as you must, but there are some things that will simply go beyond the possible realm of even poor taste, and I'd prefer we don't see it.

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Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

@wegster

BILL BUCK IS UGLY AND HIS MOMMA DRESSES HIM FUNNY!!!

Ahh, much better

@wegster

Gee, have I missed a flame war?

Guess I will have to read that thread.

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Moxee
AmigaOne X1000
AmigaOne XE G4
I'd agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong.

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"If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you." - Oscar Wilde

@wegster

I dislike BBRV very much.

They have lied so much. BBRV supporters will always jump in and say, well, Amiga Inc lied about this or that etc. And I always think AND? What has that got to do with BBRV lieing? How does that excuse them?

BBRV have done so much dishonest stuff I would never trust them just like I will never trust the old (current??) employees of Amiga Inc that lied all the time.

I always felt kind of bad for MorphOS supporters because they really love there OS and it was tied to the PEG board, but it seemed BBRV spent more time, energy, and money trying to get AmigaOS4 and the Amiga name on the PEG and sort of screwed MorphOS people and didn't pay them. At least with AInc's not paying people they were trying to move Amiga somewhere, maybe the wrong somewhere, but they were trying and were just to stupid, not malicious like BBRV.

It was like BBRV were really saying we prefer AmigaOS4 and Amiga more than we do MorphOS. The whole thing was all very ironic I thought. The Blue side with there non-stop were further along and have more apps, but their leader the whole time reaching and grabbing for AmigaOS. Very strange it all was.

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A3000D (16mhz, 2MB Chip, 4MB Fast, SCSI (300+MB), SuperGen Genlock, Kick 3.1)
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Back in my day, we didn't have water. We only had Oxygen & Hydrogen, & we'd just shove 'em together

@AmigaHeretic
Quote:

They have lied so much.

I can't really respond without hearing specifics -- and this flame zone is for making claims without being specific, which is nice for you -- but I think you're blowing things out of proportion.

Keep in mind every entreupeneur emphasizes the positive aspects of his/her business/project/personality and plays down the negatives. Keep in mind also that PR is the business of projecting the shiniest image of the company involved, sometimes at the expense of utter truth.

Quote:

They have lied so much. BBRV supporters will always jump in and say, well, Amiga Inc lied about this or that etc. And I always think AND? What has that got to do with BBRV lieing? How does that excuse them?

It doesn't. But I suppose it makes people who rejected BBRV for being dishonest yet embraced Amiga, Inc. despite dishonesty look pretty hypocritical. If you say you want nothing to do with either outfit, then fine. That's consistent.

Quote:

BBRV have done so much dishonest stuff I would never trust them

That's up to you, but a lot of people do trust them and work with them just fine (see power.org). They paid me (and my daughter -- primary translator) to do the pegasosppc.jp site for example; I can't say the whole process was smooth as a baby's butt because money was only coming into Genesi in spurts. But we kept a dialog going and understood each other's position, so nobody was misled or disappointed. They were up front about acknowledging the dev payment problems in the past and proposed a method to me to avoid a recurrence -- which shows me they're on the right track management-wise.

Quote:

not malicious like BBRV

On the whole, I think BBRV are fairly level-headed, though they project a tone that some people, especially "competitors" or "adversaries" must react to as overbearing. They went public with reactions more often than I would have, which isn't good for their image. But at least they communicate.

Quote:

It was like BBRV were really saying we prefer AmigaOS4 and Amiga more than we do MorphOS.

Nah. Maybe it seemed that way to Amiga fans, but I don't agree. It doesn't seem to be a problem for BBRV to juggle several balls at once. It doesn't mean one ball is dropped for another.

Quote:

Very strange it all was.

Yep, very strange on all sides.

-- gary_c

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@gary_c

But I suppose it makes people who rejected BBRV for being dishonest yet embraced Amiga, Inc. despite dishonesty look pretty hypocritical

And the other way around offcourse.

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Everything you say will be misquoted and used against you..
~

@AmigaHeretic

Quote:

I dislike BBRV very much.

I agree. For that reason, I will never buy any product associated in any ways to BBRV !

I still remember the first time I heard of BBRV was on OSNews.com.
Someone was asking "simple" questions about AOS4, And BBRV replies were at first pure trolling before they went on insulting everyone who defended A1/AOS4, even talking about "pirating AOS4 to rnu on the Peg" !!!
I never heard anyone from AInc/Eyetech/Hyperion talking about pirating Morphos to run on an AmigaOne...

Jerry

_________________
- AOS has been ported to ex-86 ! It's called AROS and WinUAE... Or E-UAE on Linux !

- A1XE-G4 up and runing with:
512MB Ram / 200GB and 80GB HardDisks on Sii0680.
AOS4 Final Update / AmiZilla 0.1 Alpha

@Jerryuk007

BBRV only said it was likely that someone would hack AOS4 to run on a Peg; they weren't advocating it.

Well, I got moderated on this site as a TOS violater just for saying that I'd seen a listing of AOS4 on eDonkey, not advocating that people pirate it or anything else, so I guess I understand how easy it is to overreact on some topics.

As for those insults, it probably cuts both ways. I think sometimes BBRV went overboard, and on the other hand sometimes I wonder how people can get so wound up and go on the offensive against them with such hatred. No doubt some of the claims that BBRV are insulting are valid, other times I think people just interpret what BBRV in as dark a way as possible.

Example: BBRV once referred to "the morons in that thread". Some people -- adversaries -- saw that as BBRV saying everyone in the thread was a moron. I believe the intention was "of the people in the thread, the morons...." (And if you don't think sometimes people do act like morons, I've got to wonder what forums you've been reading for the last several years.) The phrase can be read either way, but it -- like other statements in a hot discussion -- inevitably comes across the way the reader is predisposed to read it.

-- gary_c

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@gary_c

Quote:

BBRV only said it was likely that someone would hack AOS4 to run on a Peg; they weren't advocating it.

Very funny. I think his/her/their/its words where "One of you guys will make it happen", which, I'm sorry, sounds a LOT like advocating to me. If he/she/them/it had said "I'm afraid it will be inevitable that someone hacks AmigaOS 4 and pirates it" I would have seen your point, but not this way.

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Seriously, if you want to contact me do not bother sending me a PM here. Write me a mail

@AmigaHeretic

Quote:

AmigaHeretic wrote: @wegster I dislike BBRV very much. They have lied so much. BBRV supporters will always jump in and say, well, Amiga Inc lied about this or that etc. And I always think AND? What has that got to do with BBRV lieing? How does that excuse them?

I am a Pegasos and MorphOS user and I can say the same.

BB may have not payed developers as if it is a matter of his wish (or his last word on the quality of work done)...

He abandoned Amiga side (MorphOS) to get good renevues from Linux side...

But to be honest, at least he didn't made any bad stuff to customers like the infamous "T-shirt affair" scandal from Amiga Inc.

Bill Buck is not a saint, not a prophet, and he is not pure evil.

He is just an enterpreneur, and he thinks as a business man.

All his idea is to get proper cash...

But it is up to us, and up to programmers to let the Amiga platform and the market to stay alive, raise the interest of new customers and attract capitals from business people.

Even from business people like BB&RV!!!

And at least BB&RV proofs any day it passes that he had the good ideas to catch the market, and keep alive the platforms that Genesi produces. So he could have good ideas to keep alive the Amiga side of Pegasos, as a "citadel of defence" for Genesi products, and he could get interest in MorphOS and keep it alive on the market because it is an OS almost complete and aimed at Multimedia that BB can control

(and in these days, to have an OS of reference which you can control, it is better than suffer depending from Windows M$ management, or depending by the choices the crazy committe controlling Linux, or depending by the dictatorial orders by Apple.)

Listen to me.
BB&RV know that Amiga side could be a gold mine, because AmigaOS and MorphOS are for real and almost stable and reliable, even thru beta versions while other OSes are still in development from ages, and are not reliable (take a look at SkyOS for example).

Just start a correspondance of interests.

We want Amiga side being developed. He wants new customers and satisfied users.

We all should meet the interests of any of the side camps Amiga, MorphOS, BB&RV to encounter in the middle their respective targets.

Last edited by Raffaele on 09-May-2006 at 09:21 AM.
Last edited by Raffaele on 09-May-2006 at 09:19 AM.
Last edited by Raffaele on 09-May-2006 at 09:18 AM.
Last edited by Raffaele on 09-May-2006 at 09:17 AM.

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"When the Amiga came out, everyone [at Apple] was scared as hell." (J.L. Gassée, former CEO of Apple France and chief of devs of Mac II-fx, interviewed by Amazing Computing, Nov 1996).

Hi gary_c,


Sorry but it was worded quite clearly that it was something that was hopefully forthcoming to happen (AOS4.x crack to peg x).


Let's face it (admit it gary_c), the steady and overwhelming at times harassment and vitriol is from the pro genesi users BUT it's just a matter of pure fact that both sides are running on pop bottle refunds because bb can't even pay for the completion of mos, and he's still courting AOS4.x!!


Amiga Inc. paid alot for the IP.

They aren't (using common sense here) going to settle for $4.50 US per copy on requested AOS4.x bundled pegs. Not gonna wash on the however many mils they spent buying it.


Hyperion Entertainment, I commend them immensely for staying with us (some are fruitloops /me?) and putting up with the what, 50 different scandals, and through it all put out a "triple A" product!


So, to all the MAI/Articia, T-Shirt/coupon, Fleecied (sheep), auction, (e)address, unsound MB, AOS-->x86, look under every rock 4 Alan, more crap I can't remember and last but not least DEad, ENOUGH ALREADY!!!!!!

Hey, it WAS worth talking about, but not 1 topic a month on every messageboard out there in cyberspacedum, and EVEN a dedicate to hate site (WP.N) as well to bootup!



Whew!

I don't hate BBRV. But If he can free Amiga from the clutches of Amiga Inc then GO FOR IT SOLDIER.

OS4 I don't hate it at all. Other than the fact that it's completely dead in water. ARM CPUs should have been the way.

I hate the people who took the Amiga brand and used it for into something else that is irrelevant just like the Acorn brand is going to be prostituted in a few month (new Windows PC Laptops branded Acorn). Look forward to seeing more empty press releases in the near future.

Last edited by ronaldst on 09-May-2006 at 11:27 AM.

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- Ronald

All beer tastes bad.

Quote:

wegster wrote: In light of the fact that it seems several have a gripe with each other in the Genesi interested in AOS thread, put it here. May be locked at any time, but until then, you think you're being 'slighted' or your views 'distorted,' and feel so strongly you have to let the world know, here's a place to do it. Note- there are still limits. Flame away as you must, but there are some things that will simply go beyond the possible realm of even poor taste, and I'd prefer we don't see it.

Another moderation-lite thread eh?

Maybe it should have been a poll with multiple selection allowed, "Hate BBRV, don't hate Ainc" etc..

Perhaps we could have a similar poll, to find out people's true opinions of Helgis & myself!

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SEX SUX

Sex doesn't prove to me that sex doesn't suck.

@RoqueFort

Moderation lite, but stay on topic.

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@Rogue

Quote:

Very funny.

Well, if you say so, but I was trying to be sincere.

Quote:

I think his/her/their/its words where "One of you guys will make it happen", which, I'm sorry, sounds a LOT like advocating to me.

As I said in another post, people in a contentious discussion are predisposed to interpreting things in ways that reinforce their own views. The particular verb tense used in the quote you gave doesn't necessarily indicate advocacy, by any means.

If I say, "my wife will go to the store tomorrow and buy new clothes" the meaning is simply that and nothing more. There is no basis to assume I am advocating that my wife go shopping tomorrow. I may, in fact, be pro- or anti-shopping; that is impossible to infer from my statement. Similarly, BBRV's statement is in itself neutral. You can infer that they advocated pirating AOS4, but that is only an inference, i.e., your subjective interpretation. I'm a professional English-language nitpicker, so I may know a bit about these things. If you think my analysis is faulty, please indicate specifically.

@Atheist2
Quote:

Sorry but it was worded quite clearly that it was something that was hopefully forthcoming to happen (AOS4.x crack to peg x).

Sorry but, as I just explained, you're wrong. To state or predict that something will happen is not to say that one wishes it to happen. If it did, every politician or sociologist predicting a rise in crime (due to, say, demographic or economic factors) would be subject to the charge of advocating crime. Does that make any sense? Of course not. Why, then, does it make sense to say that BBRV stating that hacking/pirating AOS4 will happen means that BBRV want that to happen? If you have a logical (i.e., not simply emotional or circumstantial) argument for that point of view, let me hear it.

Quote:

Let's face it (admit it gary_c), the steady and overwhelming at times harassment and vitriol is from the pro genesi users BUT it's just a matter of pure fact that both sides are running on pop bottle refunds because bb can't even pay for the completion of mos, and he's still courting AOS4.x!!

I'm not aware of any "steady and overwhelming at times harassment and vitriol" from any side, "pro genesi side users" or otherwise. I'm sure we can all recall the hot and heavy threads at, say, ANN.lu, that had both "sides" dishing it out as good as they got it, so I don't think it's accurate to say one side was/is worse than the other.

True, none of these companies is rolling in money, but in that connection I'd like to ask you which companies seem to have their heads on their shoulders and are at least trying to make a go of it. Now, isn't it a shame that those that are can't cooperate for reasons not of their own making, and those that aren't won't get out of the way and let it happen?

-- gary_c

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zukakakina.com - themes.tikiwiki.org

@gary_c

Quote:

Why, then, does it make sense to say that BBRV stating that hacking/pirating AOS4 will happen means that BBRV want that to happen?

Is it really all BBRV said ?
-- I couldn't find the thread on osnews.com... It seems to have been (re-)moved...

But from amiga.org:
Quote:

"P.S. As we have said many times, eventually if there is an OS4 it WILL one day run perfectly on the Pegasos without a dongle. BUT, we won't do that and will not need to support the effort, one of you smart gals or guys will sort this out

The last part taken from a quote of a post from BBRV (I couldn't get the original post yet as amiga.org is more often down that up) seems IMHO a wish !

Jerry

_________________
- AOS has been ported to ex-86 ! It's called AROS and WinUAE... Or E-UAE on Linux !

- A1XE-G4 up and runing with:
512MB Ram / 200GB and 80GB HardDisks on Sii0680.
AOS4 Final Update / AmiZilla 0.1 Alpha

@Jerryuk007

Quote:

The last part taken from a quote of a post from BBRV (I couldn't get the original post yet as amiga.org is more often down that up) seems IMHO a wish !

You've got a point. I agree that it sounds like BBRV would've been pleased if it happened. But taking another step and saying BBRV were actually advocating it is something else, and I'd say that would be reading meanings into the words that aren't there.

-- gary_c

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zukakakina.com - themes.tikiwiki.org

@gary_c

I just found the Original Post...

Quote:

P.S. As we have said many times, eventually if there is an OS4 it WILL one day run perfectly on the Pegasos without a dongle. BUT, we won't do that and will not need to support the effort, one of you smart gals or guys will sort this out. Of course, you could start discussing this on ...

The first quote discourage the piracy of AOS4 indeed...
The second post certainly doesn't. YES, it doesn't advocate it. IMO, to be able to advocate it "better" they (BBRV) sould have needed to be developers (they are not, are they ?).

IIRC, the thread I read (around the same date ?) on OSNEWS.com was more direct, and though still didn't advocate it, was clearly encouraging it... and insulting everyone defending AOS4... These were REAL insults not insinuations, and started by BBRV. This was the first time I read anything about and from BBRV !
// Take this last paragraph with a pinch of salt as I can't find the thread in question, so my memory could be defficient. //

Jerry

_________________
- AOS has been ported to ex-86 ! It's called AROS and WinUAE... Or E-UAE on Linux !

- A1XE-G4 up and runing with:
512MB Ram / 200GB and 80GB HardDisks on Sii0680.
AOS4 Final Update / AmiZilla 0.1 Alpha

AWN is Genesi fanboy site.

::

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