Hi.

Today I came to realize there is a forum here on this site, that no-one reads, no-one posts to, and no-one can see on the front page. It's a completely redundant forum called "Alt Amiga", which primary function is to occupy space in the database, and it could be removed in an instant without being missed by anyone. Here is the background:

I spotted that OS-News had published a great article about MorphOS in their "OSNews Alternative OS Contest". Since I thought it was a cool thing that an Amiga-related operating system got highlighted this way, I thought I should post a link at "The Amiga Community Portal". Nothing special, just a link.

Since I suspected that (some) people might be offended if I posted it in an Amiga forum, I thought I should post it in "General Computing", what I thought was a neutral forum.

Obviously, someone else had already posted the link elsewhere. I had not seen that (I later came to understand why), so my post was a double post. It also was in "a wrong forum" (I later came to understand what that meant). Thread locked. OK, no problem.

So I went to the thread I was pointed at (the original thread, the one I hadn't seen). I posted a comment that I thought the article was a great one, well worth reading. Later when I visited the front page, I saw no trace of the article at all. I returned to the thread to ask why it wasn't visible, and when I did that I realized there is a forum I hadn't seen before, called "Alt Amiga". When I had read about the forum (and discovered that no posts there are visible on the front page for some reason) I returned to the thread, only to find out that the same moderator had locked *that thread too*! His motivation was that someone had already mentioned this link in an *off topic post* in *yet another* thread!

I thought - Eeeh? But OK, if the moderator fealt the need to lock down an *on topic* thread in a forum that obviously no-one reads (and hardly know about), and point the discussion to a completely off topic single post, I thought I should go there and make my comments instead. I went there, only to find out that the thread in question was locked down a few days ago already.

The moderator had for some reason removed every single option to make a comment on that fine MorphOS article, both on topic (in a forum that hardly no-one know exists, that is *meant* for MorphOS subjects), and as off-topic comments in his preferred thread.

(I would like to ask in a humble tone - what is going on here?)

But here is my point - I would like to lift the question for debate about the "Alt Amiga" forum.

I understand that someone created that forum in order to make this website live up to the "Amiga Community Portal" text at the top of the page. Finally a way of allowing discussions about *all* aspects of the Amiga community, in the spirit of "perestroika". While I firmly believe that no special "Alt" forums are needed at all in a "Community Portal", I can see (not agree though) the point behind it; that "someone" who created the forum fealt the need of adding segregation, to keep some separated from the others. But what it's really about became all to clear some minutes ago:

Think of the "OSNews Alternative OS Contest" as a general computing thing, where users of alternative OS's can submit their articles. Here is my point:

If I would have posted a link to a "Zeta" article, it would have been allowed in "General Computing" and be visible on the front page.

If I would have posted a link to a "QNX" article, it would have been allowed in "General Computing" and be visible on the front page.

If I would have posted a link to a "unOS" article, it would have been allowed in "General Computing" and be visible on the front page.

But when I post a link to a "MorphOS" article, the moderators response is "Duplicate thread in wrong catagory". The "right" category means that the post would be invisible to anyone not explicitly searching for it or browsing that forgotten forum deep down in some hole of the site.

I realize now that this is what it's all about. People are allowed to discuss general computing on this site completely open (and does that all the time and the discussions are visible to everyone, even completely off topic discussions like Bill Gates getting another fine), but only as long as it's *NOT* about MorphOS (or AROS for that matter). Completely alien technology is OK - Amiga related **of certain flavours** are not.

And since ...

1) Virtually no-one is *posting* to that forum (for obvious reasons)
2) Virtually no-one is *reading* that forum (for obvious reasons)
3) That forums purpose (perestroika in the community, allowing *all* Amiga OS's on this "Amiga Community Portal") is not even half-hearted, but clearly a *laugh in the face* of possibly *a majority* of the Amiga Community (for obvious reasons)

... I would like to rise the question whether this forum is needed at all, or if it's simply a waste of space in the database? I have come to the conclusion that it's mainly a tool for discrimination and "apartheid"; a way of censoring posts about certain Amiga related subjects (while allowing subjects that are not even slightly Amiga related on the front page), while moderators being able to tell (to themselves at least) that they are not censoring, but merely moving the subjects to the "correct forum".

And when discussions are not even being allowed there, then the joke is complete ...

Please delete that forum, it's no good. And if this site simply can't allow all aspects of the Amiga community, then *fine*, I'll have *no problem* respecting that (it's your site, and there are other sites with different focus for that matter), but don't *pretend* it's a "Community Portal" then, when you obviously value Bill Gates struggles higher than anything concerning MorphOS or AROS ...

Maybe a poll is in place? Like "Would you miss the Alt Amiga forum if it was removed, Yes/No?".

@takemehomegrandma
Funny, I had almost the same feeling and thought that it's worth posting.
Unfortunately we seem to have another "Duplicated Topic" Situaton. Too bad :(
If one thread has to go, please take mine, as TMHG posting is imho probably a bit better.

@Bladerunner

Quote:

If one thread has to go, please take mine

As you wish

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@takemehomegrandma

I completely agree. The original link to that article was posted deep into a flamefest thread that a lot of people would not bother reading and in a OS4 specific forum.

I think it is completely reasonable to post an article in the supposedly MorphOS-orientated alt Amiga forum and would entirely expect to see it there. On top of which it's newsworthy and interesting.

Some over-zealous moderating if you ask me...

@Bladerunner
I was trying to respond to your other thread regarding locking of morphos thread regarding that article at osnews. It was sadly it was locked before i managed to press reply..
I am not blue troll or even very interested in MorphOS at the moment, but i still agree with you there. I myself wish that also MorphOS threads also were shown on frontpage. It is not Amiga, but it is still highly related and no one can deny that. So is aros, uae, amithlon and so on and they all should in my opinion be freely discussed and also shown on the frontpage as long as the topic of the thread is clear about what the thread is about.

If there is a topic i am not very interested in, then i just simply ignore it and i believe that users like R-Team should be able to do the same. If the topic clearly states that the thread is about MorphOS, then why click it at all if you arent interested? The fact is that quite a few other users are interested in such threads. There are alot of threads showing on the frontpage that i have zero interest in, but you dont see me complaining about those.

To me this sadly seems like censorship due to moderators/admins with personal issues against the blue side.
I can understand that MorphOS related news aint posted as a news item, but i really believe it should be discussed freely on the forums.

Last edited by Tomas on 18-Jul-2006 at 12:21 AM.
Last edited by Tomas on 18-Jul-2006 at 12:20 AM.
Last edited by Tomas on 18-Jul-2006 at 12:19 AM.

@takemehomegrandma
Blah, blah, blah... you have an entire web site dedicated to your platform of choice already. Please go use it.

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@Tomas

Quote:

It was sadly it was locked before i managed to press reply..

I'm sorry I'm too fast

Quote:

To me this sadly seems like censorship because some mods/admins dont like the so called blue side.

No, that wasn't the case here.
I locked Bladerunners thread simply because it was a duplicate, and placed an explanation and link to this thread.

_________________
Site admins are people too..pooff!

Hi,

how many threads over this subject come now .. every half hour one ???
THIS site is OS4 [and if you are NOT stupid you know this mean !AmigaOS!
and NOT MOS/AROS] related !
If you are unhappy with this .. go away .. no ONE miss you.
If i will infos over MOS it have enough other places !

R-TEAM

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@Tomas

I could post in the General Computing forum, threads about Microsoft doing this, Microsoft doing that, Apple doing this, Apple doing that, and a couple of articles about Intel vs. AMD.

Theoreticly, If I do this in a very fast pace, I could completely *own* the front page with Apple and Windows threads.

But it's simply not possible to show a single MorphOS or AROS thread on the front page, no matter how interesting it is!

BTW, it would be interesting to know where the border goes (and why!). For example, AROS is not OK, MorphOS is not OK, but how about UAE? Amithlon?

Regarding my Thread beeing locked now, I am perfectly fine with that,
as this was indeed a duplicated Thread on the same topic within a few
minutes. And as I stated above, I thought TMHG Posting was a bit
better, so locking my thread instead was perfectly fine imho.
No problem with that.

@ssolie

Please read the posts you are replying to!

(Makes your comments less redundant!)

Quote:

And if this site simply can't allow all aspects of the Amiga community, then *fine*, I'll have *no problem* respecting that (it's your site, and there are other sites with different focus for that matter)

@takemehomegrandma

The Alt Amiga OS forum is not on the front page because that is not our site's primary focus. The main focus of this site is for the support of Amiga OS4, it's hardware, and it's users. There has already been a poll back when the staff decided to add the Alt Amiga OS forum. I was actually one of the advocates of adding it for those who want it. It was decided then to leave it off of the front page since it is not our primary focus.

As far as General Computing, I could partially agree with not being on the front page, except that it could also contain generic things such as news about video cards, hard drives, printers, etc. which could be OS4 related. That's why it was left to display on the front page.

We are not trying to be a support site for the alternate systems as they all have very good sites of their own. In stead, we just provide a place where those who are interested can also post the occasional bit about them, such as the article you posted. Those who are interested in the alternate systems will surely check that section as well, as they know it doesn't show on the front page.

@R-TEAM

I have to say the same thing to you as to ssolie: Please read the posts you are replying to, it makes your comments less redundant!

Also, please read the subject. And please understand that the "Alt Amiga" forum *is meant* for MorphOS threads, it's its purpose!

But it's ugly to treat it in that discriminating way, hence no-one is posting to it, and since there are no posts there, there are no-one reading it.

Hence -

1. Either upgrade MorphOS and AROS to the same status as "OS3.1, OS4.0, UAE, Amithlon" = AMIGA COMMUNITY, and remove the Alt Amiga in the process!

2. At least upgrade them to the same standard as Bill Gates and x86 threads (making room for them in the "General Computing" forum, visible on the front page), and remove the Alt Amiga in the process!

3. Make a clear statement that it's perfectly OK to discuss Apples move to x86 or whatever but no posts about MorphOS or AROS is welcome on this "Amiga Community Portal", and remove the Alt Amiga in the process!

@takemehomegrandma

Quote:

OK, but how about UAE? Amithlon?

Please have a look here:
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb
(forums link at top of AW front page)

Quote:

Amiga Emulation This is the place to discuss Amiga emulation such as UAE, E-UAE, Fellow, Amithlon and AmigaXL

Hope this helps.

#6

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@R-TEAM
And how many agressive Postings (including a new Thread) about how bad we evil
MorphOS User are do we have to read, coming from you?

Look, my main concern was about a Topic which actually
wasn't discussed allready, beeing locked in a section
which actually fitted perfectly well.

But I know you don't understand that because
MorphOS is the root of all evil anyway.

However *you* are in *no* positon to dictate
who should go or may stay, *you* are in *no*
position to dictate what should be discussed
and what shouldn't, atleast until I did miss your nomination
for a moderators job here! So please start to get reasonable.

Oh and btw, just a few weeks ago there where some complaints
*on* MorphZone coming from *Amiga World Net regulars*,
about how there are not enough news posted on AWN regarding MorphOS...
there you go...

Last edited by Bladerunner on 18-Jul-2006 at 12:54 AM.
Last edited by Bladerunner on 18-Jul-2006 at 12:52 AM.

@takemehomegrandma

Some people are a little sensitive about MOS/AROS stuff being posted here. Both MOS and AROS have their own dedicated forums and generally people don't go over there and post AOS4 news. Amiga.org is primarily for classic stuff but really is the "General Amiga Computing Forum". AW.net is the closest thing we have to an Amiga OS4 specific forum. Therefore it irks some people when someone insists on posting MOS news here all the time. The feeling is, "you guys have got morphzone and a.org to post on, why do you have to come here as well?", or, " You're coming over here to tell us MOS is better yet again. Why can't you just buzz off?"

I personally don't have a problem with the odd news item of major MOS/AROS stuff being posted here, although I've probably already read it on one of the other forums. Others though may feel that certain indiviuals/groups only post here to try to convince us that MOS/AROS is better and OS4 is going down the toilet.

Windows/Mac news is only posted if it's something huge. The same thing should be done with MOS/AROS news as well. The article you posted about could be considered a major item, and I agree that it looked pretty good.

Maybe the alt AmigaOS forum really should be canned and MOS/AROS stuff just be posted in general computing. The thing that probably got caused the most trouble was multiple topics about MOS stuff being posted within an hour. Obviously you didn't do that deliberately, but it still happened.

Hans

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@Bladerunner

Relax man. He's got some strong opinions. The truth is that you didn't mean to cause several threads about the MOS article to be started within an hour. It happened, some people got annoyed, the moderators have dealt with it by deleting the duplicates. Now everyone should just get over it and move on.

Hans

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@Herewegoagain

Please feel free to answer any of my arguments!

@Hans

Quote:

The feeling is, "you guys have got morphzone and a.org to post on, why do you have to come here as well?"

Well, again:

Quote:

And if this site simply can't allow all aspects of the Amiga community, then *fine*, I'll have *no problem* respecting that (it's your site, and there are other sites with different focus for that matter)

I *do* know about MorphZone.org, Amiga.org, Moobunny.org, Ann.lu, Amiga-News.de, etc. But seeing how a perfect valid thread was treated in a forum where it is supposed to be allowed (how it was hidden from the front page in the first place, and then locked away, and all discussions about the post effectively killed) makes me make the call for a clear policy *in any way*:

Quote:

1. Either upgrade MorphOS and AROS to the same status as "OS3.1, OS4.0, UAE, Amithlon" = AMIGA COMMUNITY, and remove the Alt Amiga in the process! 2. At least upgrade them to the same standard as Bill Gates and x86 threads (making room for them in the "General Computing" forum, visible on the front page), and remove the Alt Amiga in the process! 3. Make a clear statement that it's perfectly OK to discuss Apples move to x86 or whatever but no posts about MorphOS or AROS is welcome on this "Amiga Community Portal", and remove the Alt Amiga in the process!

I have been following the thread on the front page about Microsoft getting a fine from the EU commision. It was very interesting. But hardly as relevant to the Amiga community as the excellent MorphOS article on OSNews ...

@takemehomegrandma

Quote:

takemehomegrandma wrote: I have been following the thread on the front page about Microsoft getting a fine from the EU commision. It was very interesting. But hardly as relevant to the Amiga community as the excellent MorphOS article on OSNews ...

It is major computing news though. Anyway, hiding the alt AmigaOS forum was a decision made a while back when posting "but MOS is better because..." was more common. Some people were calling for MOS related topics to be banned at that stage. Maybe this could be relooked at now that things are a little more settled. BTW, it's not the only forum that doesn't appear on the front page though. The General chat doesn't appear either.

EDIT: Hidden topics do appear on the recent topics page.

I know that you have no problem following the rules. I was just pointing out why some people got annoyed with the duplicate MOS topic.

Hans

Last edited by Hans on 18-Jul-2006 at 01:19 AM.

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