I've noticed that in recent months (possibly longer) that the moderators seem to rarely intervene, when there's someone (there have been several) who decides to go over-the-top & make a lot of almost-but-not-quite troll-esque posts in a big thread:

The sort of posts which taken individually are not worth making a Report over, and may not even appear too unusual. It is only when you look at the vast quantity of posts, all repeating the same theme in slightly different ways, all pushing a slightly annoying/upsetting viewpoint (usually anti-OS4), that it is clear the poster should be given a warning.


So my question is this: Is this an unfortunate but unavoidable side-effect an intentional relaxing of the moderation rules? Or is it simply due to a lack of time on the part of the moderators, so that they don't notice it is happening?

If the latter, then the moderators telling us to solve it by hitting the Report button isn't going to work very well, because of the fact that each individual post isn't obvious trolling, and it would still require the moderator to read 10s of pages of a thread before reaching a conclusion.

_________________
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@ChrisH

IMO there has been a surprisingly low number of AR's in the two threads that has generated so much traffic. I know I came in very late in one of those threads where it really went over board.

Quote:

Is this an unfortunate but unavoidable side-effect an intentional relaxing of the moderation rules? Or is it simply due to a lack of time on the part of the moderators, so that they don't notice it is happening?

A little bit of both, I'd say, though again I would point at the quite small number of reports and say we probably noticed to late what was going on.

_________________
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@ChrisH

My two cents on this.

_________________
Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
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@ChrisH

Quote:

So my question is this: Is this an unfortunate but unavoidable side-effect an intentional relaxing of the moderation rules? Or is it simply due to a lack of time on the part of the moderators, so that they don't notice it is happening?

In my opinion we need more young, active moderators. One mod disappeared about a year ago and we have not been able to locate him. Another one has not been on the site in many months. A couple of mods are in school which takes up a lot of their time. I believe I am the only one who has the time because I am retired, but I am faced with being a slow reader because of age related eye sight problems which will only slow me down with time.

Quote:

If the latter, then the moderators telling us to solve it by hitting the Report button isn't going to work very well, because of the fact that each individual post isn't obvious trolling, and it would still require the moderator to read 10s of pages of a thread before reaching a conclusion.

If people do not use the AR button we may never know there is a problem. The mods simply cannot be in every thread. You can also send a PM to a mod and give your opinion of a thread. For me, yes it would be difficult to catch up with 10 pages if I have not already been reading that thread.. I usually try to stick to the shorter threads.

I wish we could have many more mods to cover this big site.

_________________
Moxee
AmigaOne X1000
AmigaOne XE G4
I'd agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong.

@Moxee Quote:

You can also send a PM to a mod and give your opinion of a thread.

Something that would help is a list of all the moderators. If there already is one, then it should be more prominently displayed/named.

It might also help to put the more active moderators at the top of the list.

_________________
Author of the PortablE programming language.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

Perhaps there should be another drive for more moderators. I have no idea who. Certainly not me (no time these days).

On a side note, this is another unfortunate side-effect of splitting our efforts (by having several different Amiga sites that cover similar things).

_________________
Author of the PortablE programming language.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

@ChrisH

Quote:

ChrisH wrote: @Moxee Quote: You can also send a PM to a mod and give your opinion of a thread. Something that would help is a list of all the moderators. If there already is one, then it should be more prominently displayed/named. It might also help to put the more active moderators at the top of the list.

Not totally up to date:

http://www.amigaworld.net/aboutus/

As for the more active these days I'd say:

_Steve_
Seer
zerohero
Zardoz
Moxee
me

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Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

@ChrisH

Quote:

Quote: You can also send a PM to a mod and give your opinion of a thread. Something that would help is a list of all the moderators. If there already is one, then it should be more prominently displayed/named.

The link is About Us which is listed in the left hand column menu under Information.

Quote:

It might also help to put the more active moderators at the top of the list.

That would be a nice feature. Could go by frequency of log in I guess. I don't know if that can be done though. _steve_ is probably the one to ask.

_________________
Moxee
AmigaOne X1000
AmigaOne XE G4
I'd agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong.

@Moxee

Quote:

Moxee wrote: If people do not use the AR button we may never know there is a problem. The mods simply cannot be in every thread. You can also send a PM to a mod and give your opinion of a thread. For me, yes it would be difficult to catch up with 10 pages if I have not already been reading that thread.. I usually try to stick to the shorter threads.

One of the weaknesses with the AR button is that it pertains to only one post. We've started having the occasional case of people not violating the TOS with a single post, but when you look at their posts as a group, they constitute sustained abuse.

Having to bring in more moderators is akin to having to bringing in more police. Needing more of them is rather sad.

Hans

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@Hans

Quote:

Hans wrote: @Moxee One of the weaknesses with the AR button is that it pertains to only one post. We've started having the occasional case of people not violating the TOS with a single post, but when you look at their posts as a group, they constitute sustained abuse.

I think this is where we have to rely on users sending one or more of us a PM explaining what they see as a problem when looking at multiple posts as a whole. The issue of course is that takes more work on the part of users. But Its hard to get around that. Staff itself is manned by volunteers.

Also the sad reality of that which we can't escape is that people will have to be more patient with such cases. When something is shades of grey its always going to take more care in thought to come to a determination. And also to be fair to all involved a consensus decision on some level is probably more appropriate in such circumstances, and with the global nature of our staff it can take time until a couple of us can confer.

_________________
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Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

@Hans

Quote:

Having to bring in more moderators is akin to having to bringing in more police. Needing more of them is rather sad.

Very sad indeed.

BUT,

We went most of the year without much of any problem. Then fall arrives and all of a sudden some people are acting out their frustrations.

_________________
Moxee
AmigaOne X1000
AmigaOne XE G4
I'd agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong.

@ChrisH

Quote:

The sort of posts which taken individually are not worth making a Report over, and may not even appear too unusual. It is only when you look at the vast quantity of posts, all repeating the same theme in slightly different ways, all pushing a slightly annoying/upsetting viewpoint (usually anti-OS4), that it is clear the poster should be given a warning.

I have a similar feeling about the forum being invaded by anti-AmigaOS3.x users who say AmigaOS3.x is crap and buy an OS4 machine (and what happens if the user does not like the idea of OS4? even thought some OS4 users think it's wonderful some classic users prefer classic OS too). Some OS4 users think that AmigaOS3/MorphOS/AROS are rubbish and treat their users like that. And some OS4 users blindly deny any negative aspect of OS4 (the benchmarks were interesting, not for the results but for the replies of OS4 users who didn't want to know that and prefered that any MorphOS reference was erased)

Some OS4 users should understand that amigaworld.net is used by AmigaOS3.x users, OS4 users, MorphOS users and AROS users. And moderation in amigaworld is quite good, not like inquisitive amigans.net where any comment remotely not positive about OS4 is censored.

For OS4 people who don't want to see anything negative and doesn't mind being censored if they say anything remotely negative, amigans.net is a good place to stay. The irony here is that amigans.net claim to support classics too but the technologies some OS4 developers think are evil or mean competition for OS4 are forbidden to talk about.

Well, I feel people have freedom on amigaworld and amiga.org and it should continue that way.

Last edited by Crumb on 06-Oct-2009 at 08:24 AM.
Last edited by Crumb on 06-Oct-2009 at 08:23 AM.

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@Crumb

Quote:

invaded by anti-AmigaOS3.x users who say AmigaOS3.x is crap and buy an OS4 machine

The only thing you’re trying to do is to diminish the work put in to AmigaOS4,
because you are clearly some one that promotes open source, you have for years tried diminish work I have done, and others in the community because they are OS4 developers or users, and because OS4 developers and AmigaOS4 = Close source and there for is evil.

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@Crumb

Quote:

Well, I feel people have freedom on amigaworld and amiga.org and it should continue that way.

You mistake freedom with anarchy. Slandering and badmouthing is not freedom. Regardless of who's the victim, be it OS 3 users, OS 4 users, or MOS users.

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@Moxee

Quote:

Then fall arrives and all of a sudden some people are acting out their frustrations.

The crap that bernd_afa is allowed to do on the Timberwolf thread is not frustration, it is simply defamation. It amazes me to no end that he is allowed to do this for 23 pages worth of thread without even a single action being taken by a moderator.

This has been blown WAY out of proportion, and I am am thinking about actively boycotting this site because of that. I don't care about the usual "MOS is better than OS 4 and here is a constructed benchmark to show it", or the usual "AROS is better because it runs on x86", but the campaign that bernd_afa is doing is simply no longer freedom of speech.

If you don't think that this requires the action of a moderator, then by all means, suspend my account, because I am surely not going to visit this site anymore if that is the case.

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@Rogue

I don't think bernd_afa is insulting anyone and find him same as me; don't follow the trademarks, use what is best.

But i see other people like exec.pl and another guy who user the word 'stupid' describing some mos user. Didn't see anyone complained about it.

Commenting moderators work in public is breaking the rules.

_________________
May the force be with you...

@thread

Hello! My opinion is that the site is well moderated. Saying this, I mean that users shouldn't be enforced to follow the TOS in every single line the write. It is understandable that some times, someone WILL break the TOS, because he is in a bad mood, because he has has a completely different point of view because... users are not bots.

We are all human beings, sometimes we act rational and some others irrational. It is normal that sometimes a post will be angry or full or irony or full of admire for ones work.

Just calm down everyone, take a deep breath, boot up and enjoy the system of your selection :)

_________________

@Srbin

Quote:

I don't think bernd_afa is insulting anyone and find him same as me; don't follow the trademarks, use what is best.

Oh you don't say.. now I am shocked and amazed. It may be because you share his opinion, because I see you post similar colored stuff yourself. But I am sorry to say, this has zero to do with "following the trademarks", but it has everything to do with the number of "The Friedens" being mentioned in Bernd's post.

Quote:

Commenting moderators work in public is breaking the rules.

Right, thanks for pointing this out. I invite you to press the "report" button for telling the truth. I know it's uncomfortable.

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I just wonder why everybody can't be just a little bit cooler around here (and Amigadom in general)?
I mean, this thread is about that, and we have the same people starting #### already again (thanks, Crumb).

There are a couple of different Amiga-flavours around, why can't we just respect each other? You won't change anything if you badmouth somebody elses toy, it just shows you are not a grown-up person.

And it damages the little that remained of Amiga in 2009.

"Mama said, if you don't have something good to say about something, just don't say anything at all."

More people listening to their Mum on this topic would really give this scene a big boost of positivity it badly needs.
There are just too many discussions here, where I say to myself "maybe I should avoid this place alltogether, and keep to those few places, where people have a positive mindset about the Amiga, being creative about it , not destructive".

Imagine newcomers reading all of this kind of stuff, and you really wonder "Why we cannot retain new users", or attract them at all?

Why is it, that the smaller the breadcrumbs, the bigger the asshats get fighting over them?

i think the moderators here carry out their duties pretty well and sensible! but then im obviously one of these ranting os3 users ;D. am i not? bernds way of posting might well be considered offensive, that is truth, but even if i do not agree with each and every of his statements he also is sometimes making a valid point.

the notion to restrict criticism calling it anarchy we all know well from the present and the past. please do not blackmail us users like that. that is exactly the point that if there was more openness and information, and i mean not just announcements like this about firefox, but maybe some sort of roadmap or just regular pr, there would be much more confidence in what hyperion is doing. exactly the policy of "hiding in the basement" and working on something, none is allowed to know what, creates these tensions that lead to these sort of postings. and aw is not only place where it happens so i dont think the moderators are to blame.