@Mr_Capehill

/Humorous irony mode ON

Looking at your avatar, I find a resemblance between "Lord of the Rings" and all these silly "Peg vs. Amiga", "OS4 vs. MOS", etc. wars:

Gandalf ("the good") says the Balrog ("the evil") "You cannot pass!", the Balrog will drag Gandalf down, "The Community of the Boing!" will be losing members and disgregating while things are coming along, and finally, even if one of the sides wins, only very few members will remain, the other will leave Middle Earth looking for greener and more peaceful pastures... And some people are still fighting trying to find who is Gandalf and who is the Balrog... bah... At least we all know BBRV is Sauron

/Humorous irony mode OFF

Saluditos,

Ferrán.

_________________
Amiga user since 1988
AOS4 Betatester
Member of ATO Spain
A1 Cfg
OS4 SCR
A1200

@Wiffy

Quote:

I do not agree that the same meaning of 'approach' is an appropriate synonym of 'tact' either.

It is where I live.

Colloquial English in all it's variants is different than the Queens English.

_________________
Ya Husayn!

@Wiffy

I really don't understand what the fuss is all about.




This part here: "Acute sensitivity to what is proper and appropriate in dealing with others".

ie. Acill has decided to go down the route of proper discourse with the people involved. As far as I know, the only attempt that Genesi had made was the donation of a board to Hyperion via a rather unprofessional and almost (if not) condescending manner via web forums (IIRC). I don't know what that resulted in (obviously no port has transpired).

As for other companies, I wouldn't have a clue. I don't have access to such information, nor do I engage in such rumour mongering if that's what you're implying when you state this:
Quote:

2/ If you meant tactic, how do you know the tactic is any different from previous attempts?

I simply don't know of other attempts. I don't know how the ACK situation is going, nor of the Shark, nor of the BPPC nor of the CBPPC or of any other hardware. Unfortunately, such info is given out only to a select few.

As you can see, Acill's approach (tact, tack or any other FAQ) is to me showing an Quote:

"Acute sensitivity to what is proper and appropriate in dealing with others"

.

_________________

@Wiffy

Quote:

Wiffy wrote: Main Entry: tact Part of Speech: noun Definition: finesse, thoughtfulness Synonyms: acumen, acuteness, address, adroitness, amenity, aptness, care, common sense, consideration, control, courtesy, delicacy, delicatesse, diplomacy, discernment, discretion, discrimination, gallantry, good taste, head, horse sense, intelligence, judgment, penetration, perception, perspicacity, poise, policy, politicness, presence, prudence, refinement, repose, savoir-faire, sensitivity, skill, smoothness, suavity, subtlety, tactfulness, understanding, urbanity

Take a pick, any pick

_________________

@samface & wiffy

You are both right. Getting an OS4 license for the Pegasos from Amiga Inc has been tried several times before, and it simply won't happen. That is a fact. Many more or less naive people here keeps posting things like "oh, but it would simply be a matter of getting a license and paying what it costs", but nothing could be more far from the truth. Amiga Inc is simply not interested in having OS4 running on the Pegasos, no matter who the licensee is. And again - that is a fact!


@Acill

Getting Hyperion's approval, raising money, getting technical documentation etc would be *the easy* part. But nothing will happen without Amiga Inc's approval, so you should start in *that* end. Try contacting Amiga Inc. If you would get as far as actually being able to discuss any terms and conditions for a license *at even a hypothetical level*, you would have come *a lot* further than the others who have tried the same thing before you (which I would think would be quite incredible (no offense )). However, most likely you would get the same "thank you for your interest in our Amiga technology, but sorry, we are not interested in doing this" kind of answer, before even getting close to such discussions.



Someone of the Friedens mentioned an "undisclosed" hardware in another thread that they supposedly have OS4 running on already. Since they at least have disclosed *the existence* of another hardware entity (be it unknown to the public still), one must presume that it has all licensing issues ironed out already, and is ready to go in that sense. For OS4's sake, let's hope that this (whatever it is) will be something special, cheap enough, is backed by a strong/creative company/entrepreneurs with powers/competence/connections to really push it, and will become a real bestselling hit. That could be the only chance now, the only HW card left to play?

Last edited by takemehomegrandma on 06-May-2005 at 02:49 PM.

@Theodosius

Quote:

Theodosius wrote: @Wiffy I really don't understand what the fuss is all about.

What fuss?

Quote:

This part here: "Acute sensitivity to what is proper and appropriate in dealing with others". ie. Acill has decided to go down the route of proper discourse with the people involved. As far as I know, the only attempt that Genesi had made was the donation of a board to Hyperion via a rather unprofessional and almost (if not) condescending manner via web forums (IIRC). I don't know what that resulted in (obviously no port has transpired).

I see, no I was not referring to that.

Quote:

As for other companies, I wouldn't have a clue. I don't have access to such information, nor do I engage in such rumour mongering if that's what you're implying when you state this:

I'm not implying anything of the sort.

Quote:

As you can see, Acill's approach (tact, tack or any other FAQ) is to me showing an Quote: "Acute sensitivity to what is proper and appropriate in dealing with others"

Whatever you say divided by a common language barrier

@takemehomegrandma

Quote:

You are both right. Getting an OS4 license for the Pegasos from Amiga Inc has been tried several times before, and it simply won't happen. That is a fact. Many more or less naive people here keeps posting things like "oh, but it would simply be a matter of getting a license and paying what it costs", but nothing could be more far from the truth. Amiga Inc is simply not interested in having OS4 running on the Pegasos, no matter who the licensee is. And again - that is a fact!

Correct, and theres one more attempt which had the boot put into it from the other direction too. Neither party are really interested in any kind of technology crossover, despite what they say in public to date.

@Ferry

I just want to confirm that I don't like politics at all, and I don't want to give any messages via my avatars



I choose them only if they are funny or cool enough. Stay tuned

BB? What, I thought Bill Gates was the eye...didn't you hear about our quest to steal Windows source code and take them to Mount Doom?

@takemehomegrandma

Quote:

You are both right. Getting an OS4 license for the Pegasos from Amiga Inc has been tried several times before, and it simply won't happen.

Maybe, but that wasn't always the case. At one time Amiga Inc promoted the Pegasos board as a potential AmigaOS4 supported platform within an executive update. They also stated that since Thendic/Genesi's involvement there have been no serious attempts to start proper business communications with AI to get AmigaOS4 ported to the Pegasos hardware.

But IMO realisticly, AI will have to be extra careful ever doing business with anyone Thendic/Genesi related ever again. They already tried to do proper business with Thendic-France/BBRV with regard to an AmigaDE licence contract, which was mainly intended for Thendic's never materialized WinCE powered products and later when Thendic co-operated with bPlan with regard to the Pegasos, they used this contract to promote an AmigaOS4 port for the Pegasos (start/ pre-empt wrong outcome of a lawsuit).

@MikeB

Quote:

AI will have to be extra careful ever doing business with anyone Thendic/Genesi related ever again.

Quite the opposite, really.

@Wiffy

Quote:

Wiffy wrote: @takemehomegrandma Correct, and theres one more attempt which had the boot put into it from the other direction too.

That may be so, I no nothing about that. However, the Pegasos does not come with any EULA or anything such. But discussing that is pointless. Nothing will happen without Amiga Inc's approval anyway, and they won't approve it, so any obstacles or "boots put into it", from *any* direction, at *any* lower level (beneath Amiga Inc's top management) won't matter anyway, since the ultimate show stopper will be Amiga Inc.

@takemehomegrandma
Quote:

Amiga Inc is simply not interested in having OS4 running on the Pegasos, no matter who the licensee is. And again - that is a fact!

Amiga Inc. is simply not interested because there has never been a viable business case. And again - that is a fact! [heh]

_________________
ExecSG Team Lead

Remember when Sun threatened to stop supporting Solaris on x86 and the Solaris x86 community sent a group to Sun headquarters to discuss keeping Solaris current on x86 hardware (and of course it worked). Maybe a group of influential Amigans could be assembled to do the same. Go to both Genesi and Amiga Inc. to discuss OS4 on Pegasos and what is the best for Amiga market and community.

_________________

@hooligan

Quote:

Quite the opposite, really.

Maybe in your opinion, but the AmigaDE license agreement between Thendic-France and Amiga Inc had nothing to do with Hyperion, Eyetech nor had any relationship with the AmigaOS4 project/Team. So BBRV's statement: "The Hyperion/Eyetech OS 4.0 Agreement will be declared "null and void and of no force or effect." was IMO unprofessional flamebait and really quite amazing for any kind of business managers.

@ssolie

Quote:

Amiga Inc. is simply not interested because there has never been a viable business case. And again - that is a fact! [heh]

IMO you hit the nail right on the head. The first step would be to compile a clear business proposal, explaining exactly how Amiga Inc will benefit from such a deal (most importantly, how such an adventure would make them money for the short, medium and/or long run!).

The next step would be to involve Hyperion with regard to polling their interests, resources and possible time frames.

@hooligan

Quote:

AI will have to be extra careful ever doing business with anyone Thendic/Genesi related ever again.

Quote:

Quite the opposite, really.

Burn me once shame on you!

Burn me twice shame on me!

_________________
"The system no longer works " -- Young Anakin Skywalker

@Mr_Capehill

Oh, yes, you are right! Bill "Sauron" Gates III.

Perhaps both Bills are cousins or something, and it's a genetical characteristic they share.

Saluditos,

Ferrán.

_________________
Amiga user since 1988
AOS4 Betatester
Member of ATO Spain
A1 Cfg
OS4 SCR
A1200

@MikeB

Quote:

MikeB wrote: @takemehomegrandma Quote: You are both right. Getting an OS4 license for the Pegasos from Amiga Inc has been tried several times before, and it simply won't happen. Maybe, but that wasn't always the case. At one time Amiga Inc promoted the Pegasos board as a potential AmigaOS4 supported platform within an executive update.

That was back when MorphOS was "OS4", right? Oh, and BTW, back then the Pegasos was not only promoted as a potential AmigaOne - it was proclaimed *to be* one of the AmigaOne's. And how ever interesting that part of Amiga History is - it was a long time ago and lots of water has flowed under the bridges since then.

Quote:

They also stated that since Thendic/Genesi's involvement there have been no serious attempts to start proper business communications with AI to get AmigaOS4 ported to the Pegasos hardware.

They have stated so many things!

But maybe that was correct -- but only when it comes to Genesi/Thendic directly, not others!

Quote:

But IMO realisticly, AI will have to be extra careful ever doing business with anyone Thendic/Genesi related ever again.

No, it's obviously the other way around, but you will probably never agree with that!

Quote:

They already tried to do proper business with Thendic-France/BBRV with regard to an AmigaDE licence contract, which was mainly intended for Thendic's never materialized WinCE powered products and later when Thendic co-operated with bPlan with regard to the Pegasos, they used this contract to promote an AmigaOS4 port for the Pegasos (start/ pre-empt wrong outcome of a lawsuit).

Genesi have a proper lincense for the Amiga operating system that Amiga Inc tried to base their business upon back when "the Amiga is Dead, long live the Amiga", which also gives them the right to any and all of the Amiga trademarks for this product, the right to sublicense it to others, and **includes updates** of the OS. The validity of the license deal has been confirmed by a court of law (and Amiga Inc has since then failed to comply with the license (and this time also a court order) *a second* time). If you have an open mind and look at things from a "helicopter perspective", you could argue that the OS has evolved in an unexpected way from the point in time when the deal was signed between Amiga Inc and (now) Genesi, but it's a good thing the license also covers updates of the OS, right?

Of course, this would probably have to be "clarified" in a court of law. This could certainly be done (at least tried), and bbrv rather recently said on the bunny that they thought this would still be very possible to do, perhaps even more so since Amiga Inc's *second* breach of the deal.

But rest easy! I don't think they will bother (unless Hyperion asks them to(!)). While they certainly would welcome OS4 on the Pegasos, they don't really need it. OS4 is in greater need of the Pegasos, than the Pegasos is in need for OS4. For whatever business Genesi might engage in that will require an Amiga-like OS, they already have MorphOS.

And before you (or anyone else here) starts flaming me, this post, bbrv, Genesi, the contract, or the law suit itself, please take this under consideration: The bonds and ties between Amiga Inc, Hyperion and Eyetech is becoming more and more obvious, and many people (as you have seen posted on this very site, as well as the many off-site rumours) are now beginning to get the opinion that the way the "AmigaOne partnership threesome" was set up is now really holding things back, and Amiga Inc is choking the whole platform. Why? I don't know, perhaps because of incompetence, perhaps they are trying to get as much IP and other assets *back in-house* to push up the value and attractiveness of their corporate entity? I don't know. The future may be dim, to some more than others perhaps (depending on your behind-the-scenes knowledge), but *it might turn out to be* that asking Genesi to push this "clarification" of their proven valid deal in court, may become the only future way for Hyperion to capitalize on their OS investment in a serious way?

Some of you may think I am babbeling now, and maybe I am (), but wouldn't it be cool to at least keep this as an option? Burning bridges behind you may not be too good at all times, but burning bridges *ahead* of you would be plain stupid, so please keep the flames away!

@Ferry

Quote:

Ferry wrote: @Mr_Capehill Oh, yes, you are right! Bill "Sauron" Gates III. Perhaps both Bills are cousins or something, and it's a genetical characteristic they share.

BBRV is Gollum/Smeagol


(They even talk to themselves! And they are always trying to steal things that look beautiful and shiny)

Quote:

Interesting wrote: Burn me once shame on you! Burn me twice shame on me!

exactly right!!!

I wouldn't trust BBRV to make jello!

_________________
"In terms of worship, I worship the God of Irony.
That's the only God that I know exists." Terry Gilliam

@ssolie

Quote:

ssolie wrote: @takemehomegrandma Quote: Amiga Inc is simply not interested in having OS4 running on the Pegasos, no matter who the licensee is. And again - that is a fact! Amiga Inc. is simply not interested because there has never been a viable business case. And again - that is a fact! [heh]

(I am sad to say): Wrong!