@Plaz

Quote:

Plaz wrote: I can understand why Amiga Inc and Hyperion would want to focus on these markets, but I can't follow the stategy of developing a desktop OS, while at the same time saying there is no market for it.

Hyperion said it was so they could fund the venture into the embedded market.

Quote:

And we hear anyone is free to license AOS, but why wasn't there reply from A.Inc to Acill's request for a port to Peg. Even a 'No' I could understand. A "No Reply" is confusing.

I think they're pretty much done with the desktop. You'd think that even if Amiga had a passive interest in the desktop, it would at least merit a reply.

_________________
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@T_Bone

Right. My theory is that, at the beginning, Hyperion were committed to the desktop. Then came the Amiga Inc collapse and buyout by KMOS, a company that has at its helm a real businessman (Garry Hare) as opposed to the hopeless idealists that were running Amiga Inc. As Garry said he would, he's probably set up a business strategy to make his new Amiga Inc profitable, including different ideas of how to target the digital media market he's got his eye on - remember his remark in an early interview of how he had a customer that was interested on AmigaOS? I bet the interest was for some sort of handheld device, Garry showed the Hyperion team projected sales and how this was their break into the big leagues, and they metaphorically tossed the AmigaOne version of OS4 over their shoulder (remember how the Friedens keep saying that it would be madness to support anything but AmigaOnes and classics in the initial release of OS4, yet they still devoted the resources for a port to a different board? that's how important they think the "mystery device" is). It would not surprise me at all if when the "mystery device" is finally unveiled, support for desktop Amigas dries up faster than you can say "DMA on the SE". That said, I can't say that I blame Hyperion - given the choice of diving in with the likes of Nokia or paddling in the kiddie pool with the rest of us, I'd go Nokia. What's going to suck a bit is that the OS4 dev kit will probably end up becoming a cross-compiler running on Windows...

Last edited by CodeSmith on 28-Jun-2005 at 06:30 AM.

@CodeSmith

I think you're right. This looks like the end of AmigaOS on the desktop.

@smithy

Quote:

I think you're right. This looks like the end of AmigaOS on the desktop.

Well, as long as Hyperion says their support (and "love") for the desktop will go on, we can be (somewhat) trustful... I think they deserved it and I hope they will deserve it for the future also...

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AmigaOS, the last hope...

@Zorro

Quote:

Zorro wrote: @smithy Quote: I think you're right. This looks like the end of AmigaOS on the desktop. Well, as long as Hyperion says their support (and "love") for the desktop will go on, we can be (somewhat) trustful...

Trust isn't the issue, I have no distrust of Hyperion, I just don't see them offering AmigaOS4 on reasonably available hardware, and from everything they've been saying, this won't change.

They don't consider desktop hardware availability a problem, as they don't see any market in this area, so the chances of them doing a port to new, available desktop hardware, is practically zero. They're hostile to even the suggestion. Without new desktop hardware, the current AmigaOne owners are the Last Mohicans. No matter how good AmigaOS4 is, you can't use it if you can't source hardware for it.

Eyetech's pessimism about Desktop motherboards didn't bother me, I'd figured Hyperion would just source new hardware, but it's clear now that Hyperion are just as pessimistic about the desktop as Eyetech. They've both written the desktop off. Amiga Inc doesn't even return emails inquiring about desktop licenses, so the indifference is shared by all the partners. The message is clear, from all involved, the future of AmigaOS is inside embedded devices, and not on the Desktop.

Last edited by T_Bone on 28-Jun-2005 at 12:10 PM.
Last edited by T_Bone on 28-Jun-2005 at 12:09 PM.
Last edited by T_Bone on 28-Jun-2005 at 12:08 PM.

_________________
"If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you." - Oscar Wilde

@nicholas

Quote:

@Rogue or EntilZha or HyperionMP or Ralph Schmidt or Neko or BBRV For what reason would a business that requires an embedded OS choose to pay licence fees for a proprietary operating system such as OS4/MorphOS, when they could use GNU/Linux or a BSD operating system for so much less TCO, or even an already established realtime proprietary OS such as VxWorks or QNX?

I still haven't seen an answer to this. This was the first question that came to mind when one of the principles (Garry?) started talking "embedded".

@thread
This is -the- most important question that AInc -needs- to answer (not necessarily to us). The embedded market is more cutthroat than the desktop market. The embedded market is -older- than the desktop. The original microprocessor, Intel's 4004, was designed to be put into a calculator. -Every- microprocessor since has been used in embedded devices in one way or another.

Yes, the embedded market is bigger, with the possibility of more income, but the question remains. Why would Scientific Atlanta, GM, Dieboldt, Texas Instruments, Phillips/Magnavox, Hughes Satellite, HP, Sony, etc. choose AmigaOS or AmigaAnywhere -over- Linux, VxWorks or QNX RTOS?

Check these sites:
Wind River (VxWorks)
QnX

Look at the "partners" page (WR calls it Alliances). Between the two of them, you see a veritable "who's who" of the embedded market.

Now compare with this site:
Amiga Inc.

Check the "partners" page. FIND the "partners" page. Compare the professionalism of the site with those above.

If a company needs an embedded solution, -why- would they choose Amiga? This is a serious question, one that Amiga Inc. must have already answered to their investors.

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Tony T.

People who generalize are always wrong.


1989 - 500 / 1991 - 3000 / 1997 - Genesis Flyer 1200T / 2003 - A1XE

@syrtran

Quote:

If a company needs an embedded solution, -why- would they choose Amiga?

They wouldn't, but that doesn't matter. Don't forget, Gary Hare already HAS a customer, one who has most likely funded development of the OS Amiga Inc. has taken in-house. Whatever device that OS runs on is probably proprietary and has no bearing on the Amiga community, so I have to wonder why people even care what the "mystery device" is. Gary has basically washed his hands of the Amiga community.

As for Hyperion, my guess is Gary put the bee in their bonnet that the embedded systems market is where the money is. For Gary (who already has a customer) that may be true. Unfortunately I think Hyperion took it to heart. Hey, if Hyperion can succeed, then *good luck* to them. However, I think it sucks that the Amiga community now gets the short end of the stick. It also kind of cheeses me off that Hyperion seems to feel that people should be just as happy to get OS4 as an embedded system instead of a desktop. I don't forsee too many people on this board buying an airport kiosk, though Internet-enabled and multimediacentric it may be.

Is it just me, or is anyone actually excited about the potential of buying OS4 as a sealed, hands-off embedded system?

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Here for the whimpering end

@nicholas

Quote:

Why do you think he's called T_Bone?

Surely you mean T_Boner?

Coder

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@jorkany

Quote:

Is it just me, or is anyone actually excited about the potential of buying OS4 as a sealed, hands-off embedded system?

It depends on what it is. I have a DVR box provided by my cable company. It has a hard drive for recording the digital video. It has a slot for a compact flash card. It has USB ports, Firewire ports, Ethernet ports, and VGA and DVI outputs. It has a PPC processor in it. If next years model was to come with Amiga OS installed, yes I would be excited.

_________________
Amiga user since 1985.

@thread

Hmm - I've just read this thread from the beginning (first time I've seen it) and am now bored
Did any questions get asked? No
Was it related to Helgis' original post? No
Did we find out anything interesting? Yes (the details about the classic PPC board numbers, but that's about it)
Are we any further forward? No

Nice weather we've got here, though. How about where you are?

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@Chunder

Quote:

Nice weather we've got here, though. How about where you are?

They predicted a flood for today but not seen anything yet.

Coder

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@Coder

The person above is currently underwater... oops, sorry, wrong thread

_________________

@gnarly

Quote:

The person above is currently underwater... oops, sorry, wrong thread

The only place with water action is the kitchen now where I am boiling water for a cup of tea.

Coder

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@Coder

OI! STOP IT! You shouldn't be using the kettle, you're supposed to be lowering your power bill

_________________

@gnarly

Nice derail - very slick!

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@DoodooHead

Quote:

It depends on what it is. I have a DVR box provided by my cable company. It has a hard drive for recording the digital video. It has a slot for a compact flash card. It has USB ports, Firewire ports, Ethernet ports, and VGA and DVI outputs. It has a PPC processor in it. If next years model was to come with Amiga OS installed, yes I would be excited.

Do you currently use your DVR for Internet connectivity and to play games and use other software, or does it primarly function as a video recorder? If you had a DVR with OS4, would it suffice as a replacement for your A1 (assuming you have an A1)? How upgradable is your DVR - can you change the video card, add extra RAM, etc?

Some of those things you CAN do with a DVR. However, it's a bit more difficult to do with cell phone, or with the OS in your car. You might be excited about getting a DVR with OS4 because you know what OS4 is, and you may also feel that the limited functionality of a DVR is sufficient for all your computing needs. However, some people who get a DVR want it for one thing - to record video. Maybe even MOST people. Do those people care what OS it uses, or do they care more about what scheduling features the DVR offers? Would storage capacity or OS4 be a bigger selling point for a DVR?

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Here for the whimpering end

@jorkany

The hardware manual for the box says it has a cable modem in it. It is not currently supported. I think the cable company would get upset with modding the box though as I'm only renting it. If I owned it I'd put in more Ram and a bigger hard disk.

If Amiga OS was to be on the next DVR box I get from my cable company I could run Amiga software and games on it. I would also be happy for Hyperion and the community as I'd know that some cash was coming in.

I see it as a PPC embedded device that has all the external interfaces on it necessary to be used as computer. It is an opportunity for Amiga OS as the cable company has not yet implemented all the software features and is shopping around for an OS to run on it. They are the ones who are trying to turn the DVR into a living room computer, not me. They are talking about keyboards, mice, joysticks and email and browsers running on a DVR.

Any embedded device with a PPC is fair game!

_________________
Amiga user since 1985.

@Chunder

Quote:

Chunder wrote: @thread Hmm - I've just read this thread from the beginning (first time I've seen it) and am now bored Did any questions get asked? No Was it related to Helgis' original post? No Did we find out anything interesting? Yes (the details about the classic PPC board numbers, but that's about it) Are we any further forward? No Nice weather we've got here, though. How about where you are?

I felt the questions were answered, wasn't necesarilly enthusiastic about the answers, but there it is.

At least they're not making crap up just to shut everyone up like Amiga Inc used to do.

_________________
"If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you." - Oscar Wilde

@Code Smith

In theory isn't developing an embedded OS = porting to other CPU's?
I'm going to a misty gray fantasy land with this, but I would guess that
licenses might have already been penned for porting to other "platforms"
and CPU's besides PPC. Cell is probably too new to concider, but
coldfire comes to mind
Rouge had made it clear they have an eye on Xscale too.

I do love a good mystery, but I just wish it could be clearer so I could
decide where to spend my money and time. (Did I say laptop already?....)

Plaz

@Plaz

I've just been over to some of the "blue" sites, and it's been a bit of an eye opener. I think that Eyetech and Hyperion (having access to more info than the rest of us) realized a few months ago that Genesi has a hardware roadmap they can't possibly match, and so they've decided to quietly concede victory on the desktop arena before Genesi releases their new stuff and the "missile gap" becomes painfully obvious. Genesi's cozying up to Freescale was the turning point IMHO - they now have access to much cheaper hardware than Eyetech, plus the Pegasos design is now the "industry standard" PPC board according to Freescale; for historical reasons OS4 will not be ported to Pegasos systems, so this means that OS4 on the desktop would have no choice but to run on non-standard hardware. All in all, a discrete withdrawal from the desktop space and into handhelds or PVRs seems the best way for Hyperion to handle the situation.

It's going to be interesting to see how things develop, but unless I hear something different from Hyperion, they just joined Amiga Inc in the "cool stuff I'm not really interested in" category.

Ah well, I guess we'll now for certain When It's Done (tm)