@AmigaMac

Quote:

Huh??? I think it would be hard to go x86 and not be pulled into supporting multiple mobos/chipsets. We'll see how Apple fairs on this, and yes, they'll be quite the experiment for this sort of thing.

Apple will do what they've always done...

They will produce their own x86 hardware, labelled as a Mac and sold as a MAc and not as a PPC or x86 board..

Mark

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IceStar Media Ltd.

@Mark

Quote:

Mark wrote: @AmigaMac Quote: Huh??? I think it would be hard to go x86 and not be pulled into supporting multiple mobos/chipsets. We'll see how Apple fairs on this, and yes, they'll be quite the experiment for this sort of thing. Apple will do what they've always done... They will produce their own x86 hardware, labelled as a Mac and sold as a MAc and not as a PPC or x86 board.. Mark

Amiga Inc could do the same if they wanted. But they won't so the conversation is futile.

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Ya Husayn!

@Orgin

Quote:

If you're talking about x86 and petunia, then wether petunia was ready or not has nothing to do with it since it is strictly ppc based and does not run on x86 ready or not. For x86 an other Jit solution would have to be found.

Sure, but what makes you think that finding and implementing a ppc solution was somehow harder than finding and implementing an x86 solution?

Besides, there was already an Amithlon-like solution, at that time: it was Amithlon itself. But we all know how that went, and I don't recall hyperion being overly enthusiast about that particular Amithlon-like solution, back then. We could speculate ad infinitum about the reasons for that.

_________________
“It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary
system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.”
~~ Henry Ford

@Hyperionmp

Quote:

I rest my case.

The guy you're replying to is right. There were other takers, everyone knows that, you do too. What's this, an attempt at changing history?

_________________
“It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary
system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.”
~~ Henry Ford

@Georg

>No. Hyperionmp is talking about an Amithlon-like aproach on PPC (A1). Ie. basically have all of the 3.9 OS still 68k running with a 68k JIT on PPC.

Ahh okey, then ignore my reply.

/Björn

@Hyperionmp

Quote:

If you believe we intend to produce something like Windows XP or indeed LongHorn, wake up and smell the coffee. We don't have the money nor the intention to do so.

Could you please clarify that statement? Are you saying you'll never - for whatever reason - be better than Windows XP? Is that a declaration of your ethernal inferiority against competition?

If so, then why would anyone want to buy your product? What can I do, or will be able to do, with your product that I can't or will not be able to do with another one's product?

I can understand you don't need to be like windows xp in the embedded market, but aren't we talking about desktop market here? So, what's your official take on the desktop issue?

_________________
“It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary
system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.”
~~ Henry Ford

Silly me, I thought Amiga (Inc/OS) could do things the Amiga way, and structure things to where we had a Virtual (or not) Processor Library sitting in System, and draw from the proper resources, depending on what the underlying hardware was. (not just that, mind you, but Datatypes and whatever else was necessary). Of course, it's true, this idea would play out best on an exokernel-based OS, but I've given up on persuading Amiga Inc. on doing anything. They float or sink on their own (competence/incompetence), whatever applies.

What a fantasy I lived in, to think x86-64 is the bigger market and that more money could have been made there. I didn't realize the millions to be had from such miniscule markets and manifestations.

OS4 ported to x86-64? There are but a few people at Hyperion, working on OS4 on PPC--we shouldn't ask the impossible. After all, OS4 for PPC isn't even finished yet and out the door.

@EntilZha
I can't understand why there is always a few VERY vocal x86 advocates that jump on any thread related to CPU choice. This thread is about the CELL, not x86.
I agree with your choice of the PPC CPU, and enjoy using my AmigaOne as my MAIN computer. Thank you.

@T_Bone
Did you notice the word "CHOICE" above, without it what is the point of living.
Imagine only having one type of anything, and using arguments like "well its the best and cheapest you know".
Without choice and competition, no market will move forward. At present the wintel market is dead BORING and not exciting.
I still remember the early days of computing, and how EXCITING those times were, with MANY different machines and operating systems.

On a personal level, do you even use or have an Amiga now?
Are you a S/W or H/W developer on any platform, or a user like most?

I myself have an A4000, AmigaOne, plus two linux laptops for my wife.
I occasionally use the linux laptops to print out a ".doc" in openoffice if a customer forgets to e-mail an attachment as a pdf.

I have no need for windoze.

@All
I believe the CELL will be a perfect match for the Amiga.

Cheers,
Tim

@T_Bone



Quote:

T_Power wrote: On a personal level, do you even use or have an Amiga now?

Because you're not a "True Amigan" (c) (r) (tm) if you don't!

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Ya Husayn!

@falemagn

Quote:

falemagn wrote: @Hyperionmp Quote: I rest my case. The guy you're replying to is right. There were other takers, everyone knows that, you do too. What's this, an attempt at changing history?

Thanks very much for your support, faleman!



I was already starting to doubt my own memory...

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Ciao

Dandy
__________________________________________
If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him.
He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him!
(Albert Einstein)

@nicholas
Quote:

Because you're not a "True Amigan" (c) (r) (tm) if you don't!

Simple, if you don't even use an Amiga, what are you doing here besides spreading FUD, and annoying people who enjoy the platform.

Cheers,
Tim

@falemagn

"Could you please clarify that statement? Are you saying you'll never - for whatever reason - be better than Windows XP?"

He didn't say that, but sure will clarify it.

"Are you saying you'll never - for whatever reason - be better than Windows XP? Is that a declaration of your ethernal inferiority against competition?"

I believe that there is no competition because this 2 products are moving on 2 different levels. You can put OSX and Windows on the same level and please note that with all the economic and innovation power of Apple the market share did not really increase. Amiga has only 1000s of users left, against millions of MS. There is and will be no competition. Like the Hyperions stated more times, they have other targets.

"If so, then why would anyone want to buy your product? What can I do, or will be able to do, with your product that I can't or will not be able to do with another one's product?"

Because you have a PPC Amiga and want to use your apps under the new System with increase of speed and new features?

Only my thoughts.

cheers
naz

@Hyperionmp

Quote:

If you believe we intend to produce something like Windows XP or indeed LongHorn, wake up and smell the coffee. We don't have the money nor the intention to do so.

I understand that, hence my concern as to what happens to OS4 desktop when Hyperion moves on to concentrate on it's embedded systems software.

If Hyperion succeeds in the embedded systems market then that is great for Hyperion, but where does that leave the OS4 desktop user? I think most people who want OS4 want an Amiga computer - not Windows, and not an Internet-enabled multimediacentric refrigerator that just happens to have OS4 embedded in it. It sounds as if OS4 desktop was just a stepping stone to get Hyperion into the embedded systems market. Does Hyperion plan to support OS4 desktop in the future if/when embedded systems takes off for them? Even if that support is not seen as profitable?

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Here for the whimpering end

@EntilZha
Quote:

And I'm not going into things like the embedded market, in wich x86 has no meaning whatsoever.

Totally wrong. To give a few examples, last week I was in Italy. Tren-Italia (the Italian railway company) have automated ticket machines in every train station. It's a touch-screen system where you choose your destination. It even gives you a seat layout of the type of train you'll get so you can pick your seat, warnings about closed lines, etc... so in short it's reasonable complex system. Imagine my surprise when a maintanence guy opened up the machine and I saw a PC with a "Intel Inside" sticker on it.

Here in Newcastle we have electronic city guides for tourists. They're big kiosk things with touch screens that tell tourists how to get to the local sights. Once again, they use a version of Windows XP to run the software on.

Check out this link: and there are plenty other examples of companies selling cheap x86 hardware to the China and India markets for embedded use.

Quote:

Be failed

Because they abandoned their desktop users and focused on the promised land of the embedded market with BeIA.

Everybody seems to think the streets of the embedded market are paved with gold. But plenty companies have spectactularly failed (including the previous incarnation of Amiga Inc).

Quote:

Yes, they would. Because everybody would use Windows, anyway. The idea of having Amiga developers compete against Windows is ridiculous

Why is it ridiculous? Please tell me why? I don't consider myself a lesser-being when stood next to a Windows developer. What IS ridiculous is the hardware policies that are preventing us Amiga developers from competing. You are moving the competition away the software (where alternative OSes are thriving on x86 and software is competing) to the hardware, where the AmigaOne has been thouroughly trounced by the PC, even amongst Amiga fans, where AROS gets more popular, the classic is still more populous amongst active users than OS4 + MOS combined. You've gone head to head against Dell, Hewlett Packard, Sony, etc... and lost spectacularly... nobody even noticed you were there. It's time to move to the software where there is a fighting chance. PC World have a well-stocked alternative computing section with BSDs, Linux software (and previously BeOS) on the shelves on the high street. That's where the OS needs to turn up.

But yes you say, it doesn't matter because the embedded market is where the gold is at. In which case, why are you here at amigaworld.net at all? Is the shining you see really gold lying on the streets, or is the sun shining on the bones of all the dead companies who believed the hype and embraced the next big fad.

@Rogue

In comment #43 you said all that I needed to hear. You said there will be hardware available to run it on when the OS is released. I have shown my A1XE running OS 4.0 Pre-release to my friends and they are sold on it. I know 5 people who want to buy it when it's done. The only concern here was the hardware shortage. I have been asked many times, "Will there be any hardware to run it on when it is done?". All I could say was that the developers were still developing it. They must know something about this that we don't know.

_________________
Amiga user since 1985.

@smithy

Quote:

Totally wrong. To give a few examples, last week I was in Italy. Tren-Italia (the Italian railway company) have automated ticket machines in every train station. It's a touch-screen system where you choose your destination. It even gives you a seat layout of the type of train you'll get so you can pick your seat, warnings about closed lines, etc... so in short it's reasonable complex system. Imagine my surprise when a maintanence guy opened up the machine and I saw a PC with a "Intel Inside" sticker on it.

Just for your information, those systems use OS2/Warp, and have done so for the past 10 years or so

_________________
“It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary
system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.”
~~ Henry Ford

@jahc

Quote:

jahc wrote: @Helgis Why are you so concerned about what future CPU we should use, when right now what Amiga really needs is some good software? i.e. a browser and office suite?

It's not the CPU specifically that's holding Amiga back, it's lack of reasonable hardware. As long as no reasonable hardware is available, that means there's no reasonable way to get OS4. As long as there's no reasonable way to get OS4, there's no reasonable way to convince developers that they should be developing for OS4.

The lack of reasonable hardware is bottlenecking the platform on all fronts.

_________________
"If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you." - Oscar Wilde

As this thread mentions the cell, wouldn't it be a good idea if someone distributes the unused CPU-power of the PS3? For instance a scientist or company pays 1 EUR per 10^15 FLOP/s and a PS3-owner gets 30 cent.

@jahc
Quote:

@Helgis Why are you so concerned about what future CPU we should use, when right now what Amiga really needs is some good software? i.e. a browser and office suite?

An embedded OS doesn't need an office suite or a web browser. A deep fat fryer or a parking meter has no need to browse the web or write letters to Granny.

@Hyperionmp

Quote:

Hyperionmp wrote: @T_Bone Again, comparing Amithlon to Amiga OS 4.0 is a massive insult to the dozens of developers who have spent (snip)

Amithlon is your straw man. Like I said before if you think this is about Amithlon vs. OS4, you're dancing away from the point, tripping over the ropes, falling out of the ring, and knocking over a few people in the front row. They picked you up, brushed off some dust, and you danced out the fire exit. The guy you were boxing is still in the ring wondering why you glommed on to Amithlon in a hardware discussion.

It's about reasonable hardware.

Quote:

OS 3.9 is very primitive compared to OS 4.0.

You've left the fire exit, you're dancing down the alley and into the street.

It's about reasonable hardware.

_________________
"If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you." - Oscar Wilde