@thread

Finaly someone independant tells the truth about the situation with the Amiga. Whats said here will be the opinion of the majority, the very people needed to make the Amiga a success again.
The business realy needs to be defined and there needs to be a high quality and reasonably priced product if there is to be any success, this is something we sadly don't have.
I have got an AmigaOne and OS4 because I'm a die hard fan, I have also got a PC with windows because I was increasingly finding things that the Amiga just can not do aswell anymore. Web browsing is one of the most important jobs a computer does in todays world almost everybody relys on it whether for business or pleasure but this is one of the Amigas weakest points.
I will stick hear until the bitter and inevitable end as will a lot of others but this is not enough. I wish that I could rid myself the need for a Windows box but can anyone say for sure that sometime in the not so distant future that I will be able to get a fast modern and reliable Amiga that will be able to do anything from browse the web (with no problems) to play the latest action packed 3D game.

@cHaOs667

Quote:

Many people have tried at those days BeOS for the fact of that its free but nearly nobody stayed at this OS. Why should he, if there is Windows, Linux and MacOS on this Architecture

But the same can be said for Linux, people have a working Windows or Mac system, try out this free wonder called Linux, many (most) think "yeah, this is ok, but why can't I get the sound to work?" or "how do I do this?" Can't do it*, and go back to nice safe Windows where they (mostly)know how things work. But some stay, this is how Linux has got a foothold in the home/desktop market.

How many people would have got into it if you had to buy specific hardware for it**?

Hmmm.. I don't know what I'm talking about, so just ignore me.

SR

PS I use OS4 as my main home system, I couldn't imagine using AROS as that, at all.

* I've done this a few times
** Well, regarding Linux detection of MY hardware, blah blah... (yes, my hardware, not yours please no Linux fanboys)

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Rage quited 29th May 2011

@cHaOs667

Quote:

Someone else stated earlier this thread that he wants to have one cheap model and one high-end... yeah dude, that are excactly my opinions. The 'cheap' models could be something like an console (PS3/Revolution maybe?) and the High-End Model could be like an CELL Powered Workstation with SAS an High-Bandwith Memory to fullfill the needs of geeks like us.

It be would unwise to compare current products with future products (e.g. PS3).

Anyway, it’s not technologically hard for AMD to produce an eight core K7 (minus L2 cache, 22 million for each K7 core) from 250 million transistor budget (with 1MB L2 shared cache). Unlike Cell, this eight K7 core will retain OOO (out-of-order) processing. This is already possible with 90nm process.

Unlike Cell, the K7 core is not compromised and the ISA is symmetric i.e. same ISA across the multi-cores.

A K8 core minus L2 cache has ~32 million transistors. It will need a budget of 264 million transistors i.e. needs 65nm process. Bandwidth requirement to feed such a processor may require either DDR-III or XDR (hence AMD’s recent licensing of Rumbus’s technology). AMD’s licensing DDR-III and XDR gives hints to what processor they are specifically targeting.

PS; Modern PCs will require a GPU for it to work with high performance graphic titles.

Last edited by Hammer on 11-Jan-2006 at 11:07 AM.

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Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB
Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

@Arnie

Yes I still use my Amiga too because I'm a die-hard fan. Although I only use it occasionally now because of things like lack of major tools like Mozilla.

What 'killer apps' do we have now to attract people to the platform?

I was considering purchasing the latest version of PageStream for Classic, but things like lack of memory protection etc. are moving me toward the Linux version. I don't want to make a sudden change and lose all of my work.

I will buy OS4 if it comes out for the Blizzard boards, but I'm not sure whether I'd invest in new hardware. One of the reasons I've stayed with the Amiga so long was because of the superior hardware (when PPC was better than modern x86) but if the shift goes to x86 I don't see the advantage...?

BTW by "superior hardware" I mean overall neatness of architecture

Think of AROS as a lifeline if OS4 goes wrong. Its also a resource for the developers of amigaOS.
Its not ready for the user yet.

The thing is that I really want an AmigaOS or similar again on my desktop. But Im not crazy enough to pay much more for the hardware than equal x86 sollution.
I already have x86-64 hardware so I wouldnt need to pay so much for my Amiga revolution if it were to be a port for my system.

I don´t think the piracy problem would be so big eather. Compare those lost sales with the people who is interested but wouldnt buy for a compleat system plus OS cost and you will see.
Also pirates would make amiga grow again.

Shure it would be great with OS4 on cell but can this community afford to wait 2 years without decent hardware? By then AROS will have a bigger community! The question is, can hyperion afford not to port to x86? It would bring the cash in for further development. And increase the community.
And if Genesi succeed in what they´re trying to achive THEN a port to the Pegasos HAL would be great. But right now the x86-64 is the only future proof sollution.

And also, Hyperion stated that it would take about 3 weeks to port OS4 to a different system. The problem seems to be the 68k emulation would not work on x86.
But when binary support is out of question AOS could finally get memory protection and the software would soon be there do to increasing number of users compared to PPC.

@dolen

Different *PPC* system.

It´s written in C so it would be as easy as porting AROS to a different cpu. Aros runs on 68k, x86 , soon x86-64, ppc.

Would be interesting with a word from Hyperion about this though.

@dolen

Not everything is in C. There is some ASM in the kernel and what about HAL? Emulators uses ASM too and who knows what else...

And how eager the OS4 devs would be to change the platform, perhaps buy a new dev environment? New crosscompilers should be done, SDK...

Plus of course they only have a licence to do the PPC version.

Hyperion has told their opinion about x86 a million times already. Doubt it has changed meanwhile.

@treblesix

Sorry, not wanting to offend Dave, but this is totally missing the point.

_________________
Seriously, if you want to contact me do not bother sending me a PM here. Write me a mail

@myself

Looks like there's a version of PageStream for OS4 - oops missed that one

@Rogue

Quote:

Rogue wrote: @treblesix Sorry, not wanting to offend Dave, but this is totally missing the point.

surely the larger the user base, the better it is for you.
More money, more developers, faster through-put.

I'd buy OS4 to run on my PC any day for sure, as long as i could surf, edit docs and edit video with it.

_________________
Dark Lord Design Wicked Solutions For Damned Problems

@Rogue

Quote:

Rogue wrote: @treblesix Sorry, not wanting to offend Dave, but this is totally missing the point.

In what ways? Would be interesting to have a point-by-point reply by you.

_________________
“It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary
system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.”
~~ Henry Ford

Quote:

-Sam- wrote: @Framiga Quote: they are coming! After a lifetime of telling everyone Intel processors are crap - suddenly they're all good!

Apple was referring to Netburst design not Yonah.

_________________
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB
Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

@thread

I think there has to be a business case for OS4 to "take off". After all, would the A500 have taken off if all the big games companies had decided only to support the Atari ST? And you can be sure that they were mainly in it for the money when it all boils down to it, not because the Amiga architecture was superior (although the games designers would have had the technial interest of course...)

@falemagn

Rogue has better things to do than replying here. Well, IMHO of course

_________________
Philippe 'Elwood' Ferrucci
Sam460 1.10 Ghz
AmigaOS 4 betatester
Amiga Translator Organisation

@CodeSmith
Quote:

@olegil Fabio just read my first sentence and immediately went into 'us vs them' mode, then after sputing off he wasn't about to change what he said. Well, I don't care. I personally think it was very funny to see an Italian and a Portuguese complaining about "foreign English speakers"

There was a pun intended of course, but as you already had guessed I'm also a "foreign English speaker", therefore it was also targueted at me... what I wouldn't exactly say that I was complaining... but we are so sensitive.

BtW, you heard this impersonal tense before had not? Maybe the 2nd plural form, it's not one fault that you had the same word for different porposes (we do have too in Portuguese)

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Indigo 3D Lounge, my second home.
The Illusion of Choice | Am*ga

@elwood

Quote:

Rogue has better things to do than replying here. Well, IMHO of course

Yes, finishing Update 4!!

edt: Damn, now i had posted again in this thread... argh..

Last edited by cHaOs667 on 11-Jan-2006 at 02:38 PM.

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Ei gude wie!
I love my AMIGA Collection...
2x A500 (1x 1MB) OS1.3
1x A600 (40MB HDD) OS2.05 (broken joyport)
1x A1200 (68030/50, 32 MB Fast RAM) OS3.1
1x A4000D 040/40 (48 MB Fast), OS3.9, Fastlane Z3, CV64, Deneb, Indi AGA
1x CD³²
1x µAOn

@elwood

Quote:

elwood wrote: @falemagn Rogue has better things to do than replying here. Well, IMHO of course

Apparently he disagrees with you on that, as you just replied to me, who replied to him, who replied to treblesix

_________________
“It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary
system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.”
~~ Henry Ford

@falemagn

that could get very confusing if u keep that up!

_________________
Dark Lord Design Wicked Solutions For Damned Problems

@-Sam-

It's the Reality Distortion Field (RDF)TM
all over again.

Jobs big news at Macworld is that a dual
core Intel chip is 2-3 times faster than a
single core G5, and 4-5x faster than a one
core G4. Why isn't anyone asking why he
is comparing a dual core X86 architecture
to single core PPCs? It's not as though they
can't be compared to the recently introduced
dual core and quad core G5 Powermacs. I
suspect that any advantage would not have
been as evident when comparing dual core
Intel chips to dual core PPC chips (but I
guess that ship has sailed)

I think the real advantage Apple gains is with
dual core laptop proccessors that can run
at lower power/less heat.

Last edited by Maczilla on 11-Jan-2006 at 03:33 PM.