@Seehund

The only thing that needs to in place to get AmigaOS4 ported is some cash for the development of drivers and adaptation of the second level boot loader, some documentation about how the hardware works, if you can’t provide this two things, then you can get AmigaOS4.

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@polka.

Quote:

Linux is still extremely versatile, but as a desktop OS it honestly doesn't feel faster to me than a bloated XP.

Hehe, particularly with KDE or GNOME (and every version crawls slower and slower and i work with those desktops every day)... if youre using Windowmanager or other minimalistic Desktops than Linux can feel quick but then its unpretty and not usable for the most users... but not so quick like Amithlon or OS4 on my µAOne Maybe Zeta could reach this but i havn't tried it this time.

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@Seehund

Quote:

Now imagine how fast your Winbox

How many times do we need to bring up this subject…
The PC is NOT ideal as HW platform for AmigaOS, it will break legacy code, or will become slow due to byte order conversion, but will add extra complexity to rewriting code from 68000 assembler to C in the wrong byte order format.

Quote:

or Mac would feel with AmigaOS...

But they are switching to Intel… and in some years time… there will be no mac PPC hardware, Mac hw do not come whit well documented information about the hw, and is poetically difficult to port to.

Quote:

(I presume that your Winbox and Mac are made after ca 1998, and thus are better and faster than an "AmigaOne", or your comparison would be kind of pointless. Well, OK, even more pointless.)

I don’t agree whit that the PPC in 1998 where faster then or as fast the Intel chips.

on PC whit WinUAE, 600 mhz your able to emualte 68020 25mhz whit JIT
on AmigaOne whit E-UAE, 800 mhz your able to emulate a 68020 33mhz whit out using JIT

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 01-Feb-2006 at 04:05 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 01-Feb-2006 at 03:56 PM.

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@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

The only thing that needs to in place to get AmigaOS4 ported is some cash for the development of drivers and adaptation of the second level boot loader, some documentation about how the hardware works, if you can’t provide this two things, then you can get AmigaOS4.

Nope, you need a license from AInc too.

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@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

but will add extra complexity to rewriting code from 68000 assembler to C

There is hardly any asm in OS4 anymore. Byte-order conversion is not such a big issue as you think, just look at where Linux runs on. It's at least solvable and with the huge power of today's (and yesterday's) PC's, it's not a speed issue at all, certainly compared to our G3's and G4's.

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@DaveAE

Well you can run PPC compiled Linux programs on Intel box, or Intel compiled binaries on Linux PPC, the issue as it sands to day is that we have lots of 3RD party software that need to recompiled to work on the wrong byte format (Intel), it’s going to break the reaming binary support. You end up being faced to run E-UAE for every thing surfing the net, painting a picture what ever.

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@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

NutsAboutAmiga wrote: @Seehund The only thing that needs to in place to get AmigaOS4 ported is some cash for the development of drivers and adaptation of the second level boot loader, ...

No hardware vendor that matters (which in the PPC case would be Apple, or even Genesi) will pay for AmigaOS, regardless of whether the cash envelope is labelled "licence fee" or "development fee".

If you're suggesting that the compulsory licensing/bundling scheme has finally been dropped (that really ought to have been front page news...), then why would any HW vendor pay for AOS development if they don't get some more or less exclusive rights to sell it? Because they're altruists?
And if they by paying get the right to sell AOS, then the scheme hasn't been dropped.
And if we're only allowed to buy AmigaOS when bundled with "hardware X" from a "special" vendor, then the situation hasn't improved compared to 1990.

"We" just can't make ourselves dependent on interest, money or altruism from independent hardware vendors. AOS needs hardware. Hardware doesn't need AOS.

Quote:

... some documentation about how the hardware works, if you can’t provide this two things, then you can [="can't"?] get AmigaOS4.

Documentation doesn't come any easier if you demand payment from hardware vendors. Either the already available documentation (and previous work and references) is sufficient, or it's not.

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@DaveAE

Quote:

There is hardly any asm in OS4 anymore

This is now, I don’t think Hyperion have time or rescores to pull yet and other rabbit out of the hat.

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@NutsAboutAmiga


Quote:

on PC whit WinUAE, 600 mhz your able to emualte 68020 25mhz whit JIT on AmigaOne whit E-UAE, 800 mhz your able to emulate a 68020 33mhz whit out using JIT

Man, check your UAE settings. On a 650 Mhz PIII WinUAE can emulate a cpu performance of about a hypothetical 68040 @ about 200 Mhz.

See my benchmark here: http://via.i-networx.de/bench_en.html

Last edited by Zylesea on 01-Feb-2006 at 04:17 PM.

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@Zylesea

Quote:

Man, check your UAE settings. On a 650 Mhz PIII WinUAE can emulate a cpu performance of about a hypothetical 68040 @ about 200 Mhz.

I found the approximant speed in this tread: about 550 mhz PC

http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=17343&forum=8&2

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 01-Feb-2006 at 04:31 PM.

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@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

NutsAboutAmiga wrote: @Seehund Quote: Now imagine how fast your Winbox How many times do we need to bring up this subject… The PC is NOT ideal as HW platform for AmigaOS, it will break legacy code, or will become slow due to byte order conversion, but will add extra complexity to rewriting code from 68000 assembler to C in the wrong byte order format.

I don't agree with that, but you missed my point.
Ikir seemed to be saying that the PV/Amy are "good enough" for AmigaOS by comparing them to the similarly "good enough" Terons. So I pointed out that "good" (and faster, and cheaper, and available) hardware would be even better than "good enough" (and more expensive and unavailable) hardware.
PPC, x86, MOS6502 or whatever wasn't the point.

Quote:

Quote: or Mac would feel with AmigaOS... But they are switching to Intel… and in some years time… there will be no mac PPC hardware,

Yup, losing the major PPC hardware platform is a bummer for a PPC OS. That's one of the reasons to why I think AOS -- at some time, sooner or later -- needs to also be running on x86. But there's a rather long thread about that already... :)

Still, the number of existing viable Macs exceed the total number of sold Terons, regardless of applied trademark, by a factor of several thousands. PPC Macs will probably still be produced and sold in numbers that any "special Amiga hardware" vendor can only dream about.

Quote:

Mac hw do not come whit well documented information about the hw, and is poetically difficult to port to.

If "poetically difficult" means "absolutely necessary, entirely possible, and probably easier than 'porting' to the 'AmigaOne'", then I agree. :)

Quote:

Quote: (I presume that your Winbox and Mac are made after ca 1998, and thus are better and faster than an "AmigaOne", or your comparison would be kind of pointless. Well, OK, even more pointless.) I don’t agree whit that the PPC in 1998 where faster then or as fast the Intel chips.

I wasn't comparing PPC with x86. I was comparing old technology (Terons) with newer technology (Ikir's presumably more modern Mac and "Winbox").

Quote:

on PC whit WinUAE, 600 mhz your able to emualte 68020 25mhz whit JIT on AmigaOne whit E-UAE, 800 mhz your able to emulate a 68020 33mhz whit out using JIT

That's all very good, but what's those (strange) numbers got to do with anything? Imagine what those stats would be on a modern Mac or x86 box. You just made another Ikir. :)

Last edited by Seehund on 01-Feb-2006 at 04:38 PM.

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@Seehund

Quote:

That's all very good, but what's those numbers got to do with anything? Imagine what those stats would be on a modern Mac or x86 box. You just made another Ikir. :)

no no, imagine an 800 mhz ppc running E-UAE whit JIT

Butt generally 68k JIT programs on OS4 will run faster then programs running on WinUAE

http://via.i-networx.de/bench_en.html

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 01-Feb-2006 at 04:52 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 01-Feb-2006 at 04:45 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 01-Feb-2006 at 04:44 PM.

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@all

Good grief! prmetime is just asking what piece of hardware he should buy. That would be the Amy '05 or PowerVixxen LT and not a whole discussion again on why or not OS4 should be ported to x86 hardware.

Coder

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@prmetime

... we hardly ever stay on topic here at Amigaworld.net

Stay tuned for Amy '05 or PowerVixxen LT ...

I have Amiga OS4 pre-release update #3 running on my micro AmigaOne (µA1-C). It has an IBM® PowerPC® 750GX microprocessor.

Micro AmigaOne production has been stalled ...

The AmigaOne family includes AmigaOne-SE, AmigaOne-XE, micro AmigaOne. Some boards were supplied with IBM 750 family of CPUs and some were supplied with Motorola MPC74xx family of CPUs.

Although I have never seen this myself, some beta testers have Amiga OS4 running on classic Amigas equipped with PPC accelerator cards. I don't know who, which Amiga models, or which accelerator boards ...


---
redfox

Last edited by redfox on 02-Feb-2006 at 01:24 AM.
Last edited by redfox on 02-Feb-2006 at 01:22 AM.

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

on PC whit WinUAE, 600 mhz your able to emualte 68020 25mhz whit JIT

Bull! On a PC with a 133MHz P5 (a laptop at that), you can emulate at about 030/25 to 030/40 speeds with JIT. Been there, done that, back in 2000.
On a 600MHz P3 or Athlon, Amithlon would get you roughly the equivalent of an 040 at 600MHz; WinUAE is slower, but not *that much* slower --- you should get at least 040/300 speeds. If you don't, you just may not actually be using the JIT.

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

Butt generally 68k JIT programs on OS4 will run faster then programs running on WinUAE

But hey, compared to WinUAE, OS4's chipset emulation positively stinks. eh?

(In other words --- you are comparing apples to porcupines; In one case, you are emulating the whole machine, including all known subtle timing nuances of its weird and wonderful chipset; In the other case, you are just emulating 68k instructions).

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

Butt generally 68k JIT programs on OS4 will run faster then programs running on WinUAE http://via.i-networx.de/bench_en.html

OK, call me stupid, but....

* There is no OS4 mentioned anywhere on that page
* Back in 2001, I ran Benoit in 1024x768 on Amithlon, and it took 0.30 seconds. That was on a slow 1.3GHz Athlon, so *something* is wrong if it takes 4.2s on a PIII/650, even under WinUAE.

Last edited by umisef on 01-Feb-2006 at 10:31 PM.

@umisef

All settings of WinUAE and its host are all given, the result is fully reproducable on the maschines. Dunno if there are still options in UAE to tweak with to get a further speedup. I estimated the average CPU performance on the Coppermine mobile celeron 650 to reach about a 68040 at 200 Mhz.

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Don't worry guys!

The final proof is here: Pegasos == AmigaONE. The Pegasos is available for
purchase in many online stores around the world. No need to wait for Troika,
PowerVixxen nor Olegil's project!

Don't worry!

@ironfist

I don’t get it, your looking for Pegasus and find Pegasus, butt AmigaOne are related, related is not the same as equal to, related just same as similar to or related as in the same family, in other word you are not equal to your sister even if you are related.

And no you’re not funny

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 02-Feb-2006 at 03:17 PM.

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