@Atheist

Quote:

This should be written up in PC World by John Dvorak, showing why the companies that MAKE PPC chips only have THEMSELVES to blame for the absolute failure of the product line.

1. PLEASE, no John Dvorak. The guy is a clown, laughed at by many for his 'predictions' and intepretations constantly.

2. PPC hasn't failed. It's in MANY devices, from network routers, RAID cards, Remote management cards, servers, consoles...just not popular on the desktop.

Quote:

When Apple was buying every spare chip around, they couldn't keep up with demand, even though a second company started producing them.

Maybe a partial truth...do you believe every manufacturers reasons for delay? Still believe Alan 'waiting on CPUs' so A1s will show up 'any day now?' Regardless of intentions, reasons given are not always the truth...or may change over time.

Quote:

Also, two separate companies were producing a bewildering array of chips, and also basically producing the SAME chips as each other, splitting the SMALL market on top of that.

Actually, and many were used, again, just not in the desktop. Are you now an expert in whether or not an alectronic device may or may not contain a PPC chip, simply because your own 'economy' doesn't allow for chips to be designed specifically for YOUR wants? :roll


Quote:

ibm in particular CONSTANTLY makes announcements of products that never appear, because someone else releases the product they announce 5 months before them, for $200 or more, less.

Uhh...ok. Proof? As in links to something I'd BELIEVE, preferably?
IBM made the first blades and invesnted the market.
IBM has indeed, produced both the Cell, and the special CPUs for the XBox360.
IBM has offered many reference products as part of their R&D. They also work behind the scenes with _serious_ companies, to design or help troubleshoot issues in specific applications.
IBM has dumped a LOT of time and resources into improvements in open source projects, including apache and Eclipse to name just two important ones off the top of my head.

Stop blaming IBM because they're a large company that actually wants to make MONEY, instead of revolving around 'Atheist's world.'

_________________
Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

@Atheist
Quote:

I love Amiga World now. An anti-AOS4.0 person can start a thread, and then another anti-AOS4.0 person can start talking about the virtues of products that should be purchased that can't run AOS4.0. And anti-AOS4.0 perspectives can be continued ad naseum with impunity by certain sombodies. It's time for a new website that actually caters for users of AOS4.0, strictly, because it seems that all the portals on the internet have become genesi.com. Does bb pay the bills here?

*biiig yawn*

Wow. Atheist playing AtheistWorld.net again, how....surprising.
genesi.com? Hardly. Oh, and do YOU pay the bills here?
There's more open discussion, some even based in that place you rarely seem to visit, reality? Yep. Sorry, feel free to take a 'happy pill' if you feel the need. Trolls of any color, size, shape are still trolls, and YOU are very much included in the definition with your ongoing actions.
You seem to believe that no matter how many times you are told, you can troll, bait, flame, and attack others, now even AW itself, and violate the TOS of the site at will. You can not.
Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Last edited by wegster on 27-Apr-2006 at 07:09 AM.

_________________
Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

@Atheist

>Don't worry, I'm buying the 1.7 GHz CPU card just to piss 12 people off

If you buy me one as well it will piss them off even more :)

@wegster

Imho Atheist is not completely wrong.

_________________
ikir

@ikir

Quote:

ikir wrote: @wegster Imho Atheist is not completely wrong.

Ignoring the use of the Abuse Report system, and breaking the TOS of the site repeatedly and consistently, is wrong. He's welcome to his opinion(s), but not to attack others. He's been warned enough times, time and again. If someone (anyone) is incapable of discussing things without every 3rd post including baiting, trolling, or attacking someone, then they may want to think about if they are really 'helping' resolve a problem, or are causing more problems themselves. And yes, in some cases, even ifa 'problem' exists outside of themself.

_________________
Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

@wegster

Quote:

PLEASE, no John Dvorak. The guy is a clown, laughed at by many for his 'predictions' and intepretations constantly.

Aaaaaaawwww, c'mon! He said on TV (I saw it ) that the MorphOS will be next ass-kicking OS for masses.

_________________
OpenWindows Initiative. Port PS3 hardware to bananas. For free. Join today and receive expired $50 cupon from AI!

@opi

Then he must be really crazy!

_________________
/Harry

[SOLD] µA1-C - 750GX 800MHz - 512MB - Antec Aria case

Avatar by HNL_DK!

@ikir

Not completely wrong about what?

IMHO everyone is entitled to their own opinions and have the right to express
them as long as no personal attacks are made. Even here on AW.net.
It actually makes AW.net a better place.

_________________
/Harry

[SOLD] µA1-C - 750GX 800MHz - 512MB - Antec Aria case

Avatar by HNL_DK!

@ikir

I will have to reinforce what Wegster said to you in his reply. I can only speak for myself here:

Atheist, I have told you time enough, that you HAVE TO LAY OFF this streak that you have as though you were on some moral crusade to *defend* (from what? a differing opinion?) OS4 from the vaporious *trollish menace* as you have characterised it often enough. And this I have done both publically and privately. It seems as though my exhortations are falling not only on deaf ears but are not even approaching the brick wall, for such is your behaviour when it comes to this issue. Making wild, malevolent accusations and issuing conspiratorial theories from whence one does now know from where they are in a position to surface will only get you into trouble.

As I have stated to you in my pleas for you to tone it down on many an occassion that you remain on this site as a POSITIVE CONTRIBUTOR to the site as you have been for 3 years now, you repeatedly choose to ignore my exhortations.

To this end, consider yourself formally warned. A repeat (ie. one more time) of such utter disrespectful attitudes towards this site and of other members will result in a suspension.

Do I wish to enact such a warning? No. Do the other staff wish to? No. But know this, that the onus is on you now my friend.

Again I belittle and humble myself to you: take heed and please listen to me. My private correspondence with you a while ago obviously was not taken seriously, so I do this publically.

The path you wish to take is entirely yours.

_________________

Quote:

ikir wrote: Imho Atheist is not completely wrong.

It just might take one troll to point at the other troll and say 'he did it' to send them both to the penaulty box. Five for fighting!

ps: Anyone else here watching the NHL playoffs?

_________________
Men who have girlies in their avatars are Girliemen!

Hi Rob,





Hi ikir,

Thank you.



Quote:

Samwel wrote, @ikir Not completely wrong about what? IMHO everyone is entitled to their own opinions and have the right to express them as long as no personal attacks are made. Even here on AW.net. It actually makes AW.net a better place.

Hi Samwel,

Yeah everybody, quit being so hostile to John C. Dvorak. After all, he gave you the ability to express yourself through your (his) keyboard.



Quote:

Bodie_CI5 wrote: @ikir I will have to reinforce what Wegster said to you in his reply. I can only speak for myself here: Atheist, I have told you time enough, that you HAVE TO LAY OFF this streak that you have as though you were on some moral crusade to *defend* (from what? a differing opinion?) OS4 from the vaporious *trollish menace* as you have characterised it often enough.

Hi Bodie_CI5,

It's acceptable that a member, who vociferoulsy hates anything AOS4.0, states openly "Buy this, and you are being screwed", to a new product, that NEEDS to recover R&D costs, is a LOW production run and MANY PEOPLE need or want is A-OK????

Being against THAT is crusading?


Well, I'm a crusader then.


Quote:

And this I have done both publically and privately. It seems as though my exhortations are falling not only on deaf ears but are not even approaching the brick wall, for such is your behaviour when it comes to this issue. Making wild, malevolent accusations and issuing conspiratorial theories from whence one does now know from where they are in a position to surface will only get you into trouble.

Now I feel like I'm being burned on a stake for being a witch.

There most certainly IS a conspiracy....

And yet only 2 people behind it have been thrown out, but are most likely back on with new alias'.

Quote:

As I have stated to you in my pleas for you to tone it down on many an occassion that you remain on this site as a POSITIVE CONTRIBUTOR to the site as you have been for 3 years now, you repeatedly choose to ignore my exhortations.

I don't "act", I "react" to threats, continuous threats from interlopers.

I don't label people, they do that on their own, then the label can be applied by those who see it.
Quote:

To this end, consider yourself formally warned. A repeat (ie. one more time) of such utter disrespectful attitudes towards this site and of other members will result in a suspension.

I am immensly grateful to what this site has to offer, but it seems to have changed.

Quote:

Do I wish to enact such a warning? No. Do the other staff wish to? No. But know this, that the onus is on you now my friend. Again I belittle and humble myself to you: take heed and please listen to me. My private correspondence with you a while ago obviously was not taken seriously, so I do this publically. The path you wish to take is entirely yours.

Thank you to wegster, and Bodie_CI5, you are very rational people and way more than fair.


I'll try and keep "AtheistWorld.Net" in my head.

Quote:

Seehund wrote: @Mark Quote: Mark wrote: The PPC market is far from dead (that is generic PPC rather than G4 specifically). Each Xbox 360 has 2 (not sure if its one dual core or two physical processors) PPC chips in it (G5's I believe), and they are selling millions of those, the new Nintendo box is going to have at least 1 PPC chip, a high volume of mid to high range printers have PPC chips in them, a large number of network devices (routers etc) have PPC chips in them. I would hardly call this a small market. Unless AmigaOS is going to be sold for XBox 360s, Nintendos, routers or dishwashers, then I don't think the existence of those special, custom and/or low-performance PPC and/or PPC-derivative powered products will outweigh the loss of the number one consumer computer PPC CPU buyer Apple. There may very well be a bazillion devices with PPC or PPC-like CPUs out there, this per se doesn't help us or anyone else hoping for "cheap" PPC computers. And AmigaOS won't be sold for XBoxes et c., so...

This calls for a "Oh my GOD!!!! I agree with you!"



(That was a constructive post. Sort of. Accurate, and bad for AOS.)

Quote:

Seehund wrote: @hnl_dk Quote: hnl_dk wrote: @ikir [quote] ikir wrote: @hnl_dk WOW Yes, and then think about how fast it will be against 7441/7445 or even my 750FX

Then think about that the numbers come from a press release issued by a company that sells 7448-based upgrades to Mac users, and add liberal amounts of salt. :)

Real world benchmarks from AmigaOS and AmigaOS apps running on upgraded Terons will be interesting, if/when the products appear.[/quote]

That's the second time in three days you mention "Teron". What is that?

Quote:

wegster wrote: @Atheist Quote: When Apple was buying every spare chip around, they couldn't keep up with demand, even though a second company started producing them. Maybe a partial truth...do you believe every manufacturers reasons for delay? Still believe Alan 'waiting on CPUs' so A1s will show up 'any day now?' Regardless of intentions, reasons given are not always the truth...or may change over time.

Hi wegster,

I don't know, and Alan isn't telling, and I'm not going to make something up....

We wait.


Quote:

Quote: ibm in particular CONSTANTLY makes announcements of products that never appear, because someone else releases the product they announce 5 months before them, for $200 or more, less. Uhh...ok. Proof? As in links to something I'd BELIEVE, preferably?

Well, Apple had to wait, much longer than they had hoped for to get the new G5's that were 2.0 and higher GHz.... I remember them saying "Expect new model by spring", that was 6 months in the future then, but it wasn't available until like August, by which time AMD and intel had CPUs that were almost 1.2 GHz faster.

And now they're not using them at all. Speaks volumes???

But maybe someday Apple will make fridges, blenders, wristwatches and electric shavers, and need moto____ and ib_m's help.

Quote:

IBM made the first blades and invesnted the market. IBM has indeed, produced both the Cell, and the special CPUs for the XBox360. IBM has offered many reference products as part of their R&D.

But do they have support chipsets for PCI-E (8 slots), DDR2 (upto 8 GigaBytes), and USB2.0, firewire, and 2 * 1 Gig-Ethernet? Reasonably priced?


Quote:

They also work behind the scenes with _serious_ companies, to design or help troubleshoot issues in specific applications. IBM has dumped a LOT of time and resources into improvements in open source projects, including apache and Eclipse to name just two important ones off the top of my head. Stop blaming IBM because they're a large company that actually wants to make MONEY, instead of revolving around 'Atheist's world.'

They want to make MONEY?


Well, "pssstt, come closer kid, I heard E. F. Hutton say that there are 125,000,000 desktop computers sold a year. And then there's wheat futures...."

@wegster

Quote:

2. PPC hasn't failed. It's in MANY devices, from network routers, RAID cards, Remote management cards, servers, consoles...just not popular on the desktop.

This point depends on how you define 'failed'. Is PPC a commercial failure? No, clearly not. It makes Freescale and IBM a fair amount of money and seems set to keep doing so for some years to come.

If PPC a failure in terms of meeting the original goals set for the architecture? Yes, very much so. The whole idea behind the PPC project was to produce a new architecture that would offer a significant performance advantage over x86, boosting Apple's position on the desktop and IBM's in the server market. Switching processor familes is a painful process, something not to be done unless the return is exepcted to be very large.

But PPC hasn't been remotely performance competitive with x86 since the 604e. It isn't price competitive either (to say the least) and the platform architecture is jurassic compared to modern x86 systems.

So it's valid to call PPC both a success and a failure, depending on how you look at it

_________________
Who do you serve, and who do you trust? - Galen

@Atheist

Quote:

Well, Apple had to wait, much longer than they had hoped for to get the new G5's that were 2.0 and higher GHz.... I remember them saying "Expect new model by spring", that was 6 months in the future then, but it wasn't available until like August, by which time AMD and intel had CPUs that were almost 1.2 GHz faster. And now they're not using them at all. Speaks volumes???

Nope, it barely speaks in a whisper, even. Statements Jobs may make 'for the public' may or may not have anything to do with reality, let alone be 'cleared' through IBM or anyone else. Jobs was never a 'technical guy,' but he's got 'appeal' in marketing and is fairly charismatic..people _want_ to believe him. I haven't met him, but my half-sister worked for him for some time during the NeXT years. I won't impart the exact words used to describe him, but we'll just leave it at 'many 4 letter words,' and none of them are 'nice.'

Quote:

But do they have support chipsets for PCI-E (8 slots), DDR2 (upto 8 GigaBytes), and USB2.0, firewire, and 2 * 1 Gig-Ethernet? Reasonably priced?

DDR@, yes. And I've used IBM systems with 64GB installed, and with 4-8 1 Gig NICs. PCI-E isn't really server focused quite yet, but for the rest of your laundry list:
http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/bladecenter/js21/index.html

Or POWER5 workstations:
http://www-03.ibm.com/servers/intellistation/power/

And as IBM sold their desktop division to Lenova, why would they _possibly_ want to make desktop boards? Again, 'reality' vs 'one person thinks they should' (you).

IBM doesn't make all of their components, either. Like C=, there's a point at which it makes sense to make your own for some things, and not for others. For some servers, the boards are produced by third parties, but go through qualification and approval by IBM before the system is accepted. Others are entirely IBM designed, but use commodity chips. Again, it's about working smart and making money, not going broke to make a few people happy. A 'market' of several thousand is not, and never is likely to be, nor should be, of any interest to IBM.

_________________
Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

Quote:

wegster wrote: @Atheist Again, it's about working smart and making money, not going broke to make a few people happy. A 'market' of several thousand is not, and never is likely to be, nor should be, of any interest to IBM.

Hi wegster,


Well, everyone wants to open "Worldwide McDonalds Corporation" class company in a day, but they HAVE to start with a restaurant in the middle of the block with a 15 person seating capacity.


It would be tragic if Alan Redhouse isn't part of that, as it was he who got the boing ball rolling (and Amiga Inc. too).

@Atheist

Quote:

Atheist wrote: Quote: wegster wrote: @Atheist Again, it's about working smart and making money, not going broke to make a few people happy. A 'market' of several thousand is not, and never is likely to be, nor should be, of any interest to IBM. Hi wegster, Well, everyone wants to open "Worldwide McDonalds Corporation" class company in a day, but they HAVE to start with a restaurant in the middle of the block with a 15 person seating capacity. It would be tragic if Alan Redhouse isn't part of that, as it was he who got the boing ball rolling (and Amiga Inc. too).

Err, ok. Not sure what that has to do with IBM, but are you now finally done blaming IBM because they have more sense and money than others?

_________________
Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

@Atheist

>That's the second time in three days you mention "Teron". What is that?

Teron is the name for the motherboard that Mai logic designed, which Eyetech rebranded as the AmigaOne.

Some people prefer to use the word Teron, I believe this is supposed to derogatory.

http://www.mai.com/products/mainboard.htm

Last edited by Rob on 28-Apr-2006 at 02:37 AM.

@ealm
Not a very fair test really. The G4 in the PB was a single core
proccessor. The Intel part in all the MBPs is a dual core chip.
A better comparrison would be to compare the single core
Mac Mini G4 1.42 GHz to the Mac Mini Intel Core Solo/1.5.

http://www.macworld.com/2006/03/reviews/macmini/index.php

It's clear that that in some tests the G4 based Mini bested
the Mac Mini Core Solo/1.5 GHz, and that's in spite of the
two Minis having very different bus speeds. It's a mixed
bag, of course, as the Photoshop CS2 test had to run under
Rosetta on the Intel Mini. The others involved Intel native
apps, however. The only somewhat impressive test for
the Intel Core Solo Mini was the C4D render test (and that
might be chalked up to the much faster system bus).

(Okay, a bit redundant in light of other replies, but I had
not read far enough ahead yet )

Last edited by Maczilla on 28-Apr-2006 at 05:16 AM.
Last edited by Maczilla on 28-Apr-2006 at 05:02 AM.