@Seer

Quote:

Amiga.org seems to have recovered from the "war" that close to destroyed it. So I quess some regulars here have returned there ?

I think you are right about Amiga.org doing better than it did before. I am happy to see that's the case, IMO the more quality options people have the better.

I am more worried about those who have said goodbye to all Amiga websites, I know a few I sadly don't see around anymore. I guess that to do with multiple different factors and aspects, flamewars being just one of them.

For instance I would love to see Kees Witteveen back at Amiga.org, he had some good efforts going for the website.

I think it's a lot better than it used to be but I have to agree that it's perhaps become a little too free and there's a lot of arguments nowadays.

However many of the threads which start the arguments are valid and should be discussed, things like x86, PS3, licensing.

And I certainly think things like the Amiga V's Gary H case should be discussed as it reveals what is really going on in the background - yet more mismanagement.

Amiga inc. are in my opinion the worst thing which has ever happened to the Amiga and these details further confirm it. Does anyone really think that these sorts of things should be hidden?

...and before anyone calls me a blue troll I actually class myself as agnostic*. I only follow the progress of the Amiga and the like, there have been multiple failures on all sides, none of the 3 groups (OS4, MorphOS, AROS) are even close to producing the type of modern OS I'd want.

I also don't think many of the agitators are "blue" either, many however are "anti-red".


*I am without colour, I'm black and I'm proud

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Whyzzat?

@MikeB

I am more worried about those who have said goodbye to all Amiga websites, I know a few I sadly don't see around anymore.

Perhaps they will come back when there's something to come back to. At the moment we have "nothing". Perhaps we'll never see them again.

I think that is the biggest problem, there is nothing. Nothing real and concrete, just the same "please wait". Does it look better ? Sure, but it did look better before as well. Whatever happened inbetween, well it doesn't matter. There was nothing some years ago, there is still nothing today.

So what's left ? A lot of people with nothing to do but wait ? Something might come soon again ? Or another disappoinment..

For instance I would love to see Kees Witteveen back at Amiga.org, he had some good efforts going for the website.

He still seems to log on from time to time on A.org. Might give him a PM. Always seemed like a normal cheesehead.

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Everything you say will be misquoted and used against you..
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@Mikey_C

One might see this poll as thinly veiled attempt to gather ammunition to impose stricter moderation and/or personal views...these polls are repeated far too often to not have some suspicion about this (granted not always by the same person), in spite of the disclaimer. I am naturally questioning of everything though..it's a way to learn :D

I think the change in the site represents the level of frustration many users have with current events, you really don't have to look hard to see it.

The site's content changes over time (as it should) - it's a Community Portal after all and will therefore refelect the moods and interests of it's members.

Last edited by JKD on 13-Oct-2006 at 05:33 PM.
Last edited by JKD on 13-Oct-2006 at 05:32 PM.
Last edited by JKD on 13-Oct-2006 at 05:30 PM.

@MikeB

I think the flame wars turn alot of people off, especially people new to the Amiga. From the outside it just looks like a mess of people all arguing amongst each other. It's only because i'm stubborn and i feel passionate about the Amiga that I stay around, but otherwise i would leave, or just not talk on the forums. I would not welcome a friend to come down here and join in on the discussions as I wouldn't want them to be subjected to what goes on here.

I also don't believe the poll gives a good representation to what the views of everyone are. I believe there are alot of people that just dont want to get involved with all of this and rather just come here for the news and then leave. From lookng at the number of voters on this poll to the number of reads you get on one of the more centrally interesting news items on the front page (i'm guessing the number is unique reads) you can see alot of people havent voted.

I think the only way you'll get a better idea is to attach a permenant poll on the front page and have more specific options like.

Do you feel AmigaWorld Forums are a friendly place?
Do you come here just for news?

Or something like that.

I know quite alot of people that has tuned away from AW and turned to smaller, local forums. Every other thread, the same old thing has been rehashed, debated, picked apart and turned over. The topic is different, the message is the same. I find this quite annoying myself, and I do ignore alot of threads here. I, and many with me, used to post quite alot more some year/years ago. I doubt they would participate in this poll today, as they visit this site once a month, at best.

I find the "sarcasm" if it is to be called that, quite boring and that it fuels the inherent fights that ensues. More open discussion? Sure, I'm all for it. But I'm very much against people trying to evade the TOS by disguising their words, often keeping themselves on the fringe border of the rules.

Last edited by GuruMeditation on 13-Oct-2006 at 06:15 PM.

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It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena." Theodore Roosevelt, speech in Paris, 1910

@Mikey_C


I voted same/same because it is..


Please keep the site "anything Amiga related" , it's no good going
100% OS4 because in doesn't exist in retail form and nobody CAN buy
it .


I don't like all the flame fests, but what can you do??


The title says it all.....

**** AmigaWorld.net (Amiga Community Portal) ****


Have fun..

Wol.

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It is my conviction that killing under the cloak of war is nothing but an act of murder.~Albert Einstein

@Mikey_C

I've only been here for a couple of years and havn't noticed any real changes though there does seem to be a lot more doom and gloom spreading around than helpfull advice. When a person does ask for help response is often low in comparison to the usual OS4 v MorphOS, PPC v X86 or is the latest hardware design for real threads all of which seem to have the same words thrown back and forth.
I wish some of the bickering between some of the more vocal members would stop, I'm not against a good debate but just using it to insult each other is geting us nowhere. I think everybody here should put aside there differences and work together for the common cause which is to keep the Amiga community alive and as a result Amigaworld would be a far better place.
There I've had my little moan and will go back to being mostly ignored now.

Here's my take on it...my two cents or 1.35 eurocents or whatever:

I don't have a vested interest in an "AmigaOS 4.0" platform. The A1 nee Teron boards were - and many remain that are - pretty borked from the get go. Amiga's business model, for whatever it's worth, their partnership with Eyetech , and a lot of other things were completely screwed in the head. There's a whole slew of people (well, in terms of the Amiga user base a "whole slew"; in general computing terms, a tiny insignificant few) who willfully ignored those problems, claimed that the A1 would take over ZEE WORLD! and that anyone who questioned the direction and progress of the whole "rebirth" of the Amiga had some sort of "agenda". We know who they are. They know who they are - whether they'll admit it to themselves or not.

With that said, for whatever it might be worth, there are folks who wanted and still want a forum to talk about the Amiga/AmigaOne and whatever pertains to that. As screwy as the whole Amiga/AmigaOne situation was and mostly still is, there are people who rightly so didn't subscribe to Bill Buck's "solution" - the Pegasus, Morph-OS, etc. ad infinitum. You can rail about what a "real Amiga" is, talk about it back and forth, argue about who has the "true spirit" and on and on, but at the end of the day, the people who licenced the name, the trademarks and to a lesser extent the technology from the copyright holders are the ones who have "the Amiga" to their own. And the people who are enthusiastic about that platform, no matter what the self-admitted (and many of them do admit to being) "blue trolls", have a right to say "This is our webforum, thanks."

I run a forum for Advanced D&D 1st edition. I don't play 2nd edition, I don't play Wizards of the Coast's d20 edition of D&D. I play 1st edition. Warts and all, it is what I prefer. It is what my (admittedly small) userbase prefers. I don't tolerate 3e discussion on my forums, I don't publish the latest d20 product news on my front page. OMG I AM A FASCIST!, by the standards laid down by some of the "blue trolls" 'round here. Because I have a narrow area of focus, and want to stay on that area of focus.

The simple reality is that whenever something is discussed 'round here, be it the new Amiga systems debuted in Italy recently, or anything else, for every one positive comment there's about one and a half negative ones. Now I'm not so naieve as to look at things like the Samantha board and think that it is going to take the computing world by storm, or even restore the userbase to the level it was in, say, 2000 (six years after the C= crash). But dammit, there are people here on this forum who really couldn't give a crap about "OMG WHY DON'T YOU JUST PROT TO PEGASUS" from the "blue trolls" or "winky winky nod nod WE HAVE PLANS!" from Mr. Buck himself. Or "bbrv" "itself", since they're apparently one entity.

Can you "blue trolls" grasp that dichotomy? I may not like any of the current A1 technology offers, but I damn sure respect the rights of those who do and want a place to discuss it.

Let's get hypothetical here for a second: if everyone interested in the A1 and the path it's on now buggered off this board and left it to the butterfly crowd, and opened a nice little phpbb forum somewhere and called it amigalandworld.net or whatever, what would the majority of you do? Proclaim "V I C T O L Y" and pwn3d this forum? Or would you follow them there and bother them over there, demanding that they give you a "voice in the community" as well?

Look, you people already have a place. There's plenty of Morph-OS/Pegasus forums. Why can't you piss off and go post on them? Why?

Because you're a lot of trolls, that's why. I mean that in the purest sense of the word: you're trolling for responses, trying to get a rise out of people. When was the last time the "bbrv" entity posted anything of real substance here? Never. Since the (very poor) decision was made to "loosen up", the few posts "they've" made have been a bunch of cryptic nonsense and advertising for "it's" blog. Line in the water, trying to hook people and reel them in, the lot of you.

Why can't you just go back to your forums, be happy with your obviously advanced hardware and software, and leave well enough alone?

I mean if you people really get off on abuse, hell, I'll hit whatever morph forums you people use and start in about the relatively weak PC I have that completely overpowers the Pegasus 1 and 2 boards - because it does, in every way imaginable, hardware and software. Would you like that? Is that something you'd enjoy? Answer me, any of you.

I say, if you're not here to talk about THE A M I G A, then shove off. Not "your perception" of it, not "a clone" not the "REAL SPIRITUAL SUCCESSOR". But what is. What is, and what is in the pipeline. And that ain't a license for the Pegasus board(s).

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The problem with AmigaOS on PPC isn't that PPC is big-endian. The problem with AmigaOS on PPC is that PPC is dead-endian.

@Mikey_C

Quote:

Most of those signed up because we were a PRO Amiga OS site.

I think everyone thinks and expects that AW.Net still is an AmigaOS centric site.

The hardware situation and all has given rise to a lot of frustration and multiple threads discussing (ad nauseum!) different hardware ideas.

I think you are looking at the old AW.Net through rose tinted spectacles - it worked then because;

a:) Amiga Inc were still reasonably regarded and people were expecting OS and Hardware shipments within a reasonable timeframe

b:) The 'war' mentality between the camps gave like minded people a refuge here - and times of strife and 'backs against the wall' make a good community.

I think if you try and turn back AW.Net to a cult with no interest in the 'outside' it will be a disaster for AW and not much good for the whole Amiga community either.

I'm not sure what you mean anyway;
Do you mean no discussion or news about anything not OS4 related. Ie - Minimig, classic H/W, classic games, Individual computers, AROS etc Even Amigakit don't sell either A1 or OS4! Would you ban Amigakit?

Or do you just mean MOS and BBRV?

@GuruMeditation

Quote:

I know quite alot of people that has tuned away from AW and turned to smaller, local forums. Every other thread, the same old thing has been rehashed, debated, picked apart and turned over.

I think this has more to do with the present situation than with the AW editorial policy.
I am sure that things are really starting to look better - when hardware starts shipping things will be happier here!

@TheDungeonDelver

A very good post you've made there, read it trough till the end and enjoyed it.

However, most of what you've written is based on the misconception that people from the "blue world" are here to piss everyone else off.

I say that's a misconception for a couple of factors.

First of all, the "please port AOS4 to the pegasos" request most often, if not always, comes from people who genuinely, if naively, want AOS4 to be ported to a cheap, affordable and, most important of all, buyable hardware.

There are also talks about porting AOS4 to the PS3, or to x86, and I'm curious to know which group those people belong, in your view.

The other factor is that what some people are against aren't MOS or AROS per se, but rather the people who happen to posses or use one or both of those systems, for the reason that, in their view, those people are here to stir up troubles, even if they almost never talk about either of those systems.

The most blatant example of the above is the thread about Garry Hare: some of the people here are against such discussions, period. MOS or AROS have got nothing to do with that, it's just an issue of being able to freely discuss the very precise topic this site is about : Amiga. In its purest form, even!

For some reasons, those people prefer not to hear about anything Amiga-related that to their eyes looks bad, but of course are very willing to take for granted any "good news", without ever questioning anything.

That's really all... look around yourself, please: how much talk there's about MOS here? About AROS? Give me a percentage! How much is too much? Should it be totally forbidden to even mention MOS or AROS? What if someone owns both an AOS4 and a MOS machine? Aren't they allowed to make comparison?

I always said it, and I'll keep saying it till these discussions will see an end: either change the TOS to explicitely disallow discussions about anything else than AOS4, or shut up.

Yes, really, shut up! And I'm not saying it to you specifically, but to everyone who is not able to tolerate anything that doesn't agree with their narrow view of the situation.

Do you realize that the ones who make the most noise about these futile issues are the ones who make them appear bigger than they really are? They are the ones who make the most damage to this site, not the people who occasionally mention AROS, MOS or the Pegasos.

_________________
“It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary
system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.”
~~ Henry Ford

@GuruMeditation
Quote:

But I'm very much against people trying to evade the TOS by disguising their words, often keeping themselves on the fringe border of the rules.

Don't forget about the small group that like to evade the TOS by poking at AW.net once in a while and then cowering away to other web sites from which they point back and laugh at AW.net members from afar. Real classy behaviour.

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ExecSG Team Lead

@ssolie

Quote:

Don't forget about the small group that like to evade the TOS by poking at AW.net once in a while and then cowering away to other web sites from which they point back and laugh at AW.net members from afar. Real classy behaviour.

I don't know.

I find it pretty hilarious some times. Occasionally Moobunny feels like watching Big Brother!

Some people are pretty obsessive!

@TheDungeonDelver

Very well put and eloquent. Bravo.

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...wait... what?

@falemagn

Quote:

falemagn wrote: @TheDungeonDelver A very good post you've made there, read it trough till the end and enjoyed it.

Thank you.

Quote:

However, most of what you've written is based on the misconception that people from the "blue world" are here to piss everyone else off.

From what I've seen lately, falemagn, that seems to be the case. It honestly, really does. And no, I'm not including you in that statement.

Quote:

I say that's a misconception for a couple of factors. First of all, the "please port AOS4 to the pegasos" request most often, if not always, comes from people who genuinely, if naively, want AOS4 to be ported to a cheap, affordable and, most important of all, buyable hardware. There are also talks about porting AOS4 to the PS3, or to x86, and I'm curious to know which group those people belong, in your view.

Ah, now we come to a point: there is context that should be addressed. I myself wouldn't mind seeing AOS go x86. Or to a cheaper solution. But this is the thing: I don't approach it thusly: "All A1 solutions suck, you're wasting your time, this is stupid, your stupid for wanting it on the hardware you have, port it now, there's no excuse, Hyperion could do it in a day..." etc.

As I said I'm not crazy about the hardware offerings, but I do recognize that that is what is out there right now. My attitude is not "You're stupid for buying/supporting that". It is "I would prefer to see something else supported, too." And there are people who are speculating about ports - no matter how pie-in-the-sky that speculation is - who feel that way. Then there are people who are just trying to create a lot of noise for every signal, if you will.

Quote:

The other factor is that what some people are against aren't MOS or AROS per se, but rather the people who happen to posses or use one or both of those systems, for the reason that, in their view, those people are here to stir up troubles, even if they almost never talk about either of those systems. The most blatant example of the above is the thread about Garry Hare: some of the people here are against such discussions, period. MOS or AROS have got nothing to do with that, it's just an issue of being able to freely discuss the very precise topic this site is about : Amiga. In its purest form, even!

Again, its a matter of context and that's something that people have sadly overlooked. Saying "I prefer a Pegasus" system isn't a bannable offense around here. Nor should it be. "HAHAHA YOU LOSERS AND YOUR TERON BOARDS!" should be.

Quote:

For some reasons, those people prefer not to hear about anything Amiga-related that to their eyes looks bad, but of course are very willing to take for granted any "good news", without ever questioning anything. That's really all... look around yourself, please: how much talk there's about MOS here? About AROS? Give me a percentage! How much is too much? Should it be totally forbidden to even mention MOS or AROS? What if someone owns both an AOS4 and a MOS machine? Aren't they allowed to make comparison?

See above. Context, context, context!

Quote:

I always said it, and I'll keep saying it till these discussions will see an end: either change the TOS to explicitely disallow discussions about anything else than AOS4, or shut up. Yes, really, shut up! And I'm not saying it to you specifically, but to everyone who is not able to tolerate anything that doesn't agree with their narrow view of the situation. Do you realize that the ones who make the most noise about these futile issues are the ones who make them appear bigger than they really are? They are the ones who make the most damage to this site, not the people who occasionally mention AROS, MOS or the Pegasos.

I respectfully don't agree with that last statement. Someone once told me that internet special interest represents 3%-5% of any area of interest on the subject (although this was back in the days of Usenet, so double or treble that figure if you feel so compelled), but that only about 10% of those "looking" actually participate. So while the "vocal minority" might not seem like a lot, they might well represent a larger group than it seems.

And they have a right to, sir.

Thank you again for your considered response (it was much more civil than I expected I'd get in general! )

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The problem with AmigaOS on PPC isn't that PPC is big-endian. The problem with AmigaOS on PPC is that PPC is dead-endian.

@falemagn/others

It's not the "no MOS/Peg" allowed persee.

It's when a thread about a "possible" PPC mobo (like Sam or PowerVixen) that "trolls" need to bring up the Peg solution.

There's no need to bring up the Peg when the topic is a not yet available mobo. I'm pretty certain most AW posters have no problem when somebody brings up a MOS question. Or a MOS / AOS4 comparison thread.

Does that mean that the Peg may not be mentioned in said kind of threads. That depends, mostly on how it is connected to the main topic. Sometimes it is fitting, sometimes it's not. Most red trolls however will always say it is not.

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Everything you say will be misquoted and used against you..
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@Colin_Camper

Quote:

I think this has more to do with the present situation than with the AW editorial policy. I am sure that things are really starting to look better - when hardware starts shipping things will be happier here!

Well written

I think people are getting bored.

There hasn't been any new members asking questions about how to get OS4 going for about a year, since there hasn't been any hardware to try OS4 on.
Those who got A1's when they were available are seasoned now, and does know the hardware well enough by now, and don't need to ask as many questions anymore.

So the current situation can't be compared with the situation one year ago.

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Site admins are people too..pooff!

@Seer
Quote:

Most red trolls however will always say it is not.

Slightly off topic but what do you consider to be "red troll" behaviour? I'm talking about behaviour only here. For example, barging into an AROS thread and yelling how great OS4 is to run on... well... whatever hardware is sort of available? There must be some specific behaviours that turn one into a "red troll" versus some other type of troll.

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ExecSG Team Lead

@TheDungeonDelver
You do have a way with words.

But there is a problem. Say you don't allow 2nd Ed. AD&D on your web forum which is fine. You go to the trouble to document that in your TOS which nobody reads except for the one guy who actually follows posted rules to the letter (hi falemagn). You have a group of users that hang around and inject 2nd Ed. comments every so often. Do you simply ban them? Try to educate them? These guys know better but they just can't help themselves--they use smileys and claim you need a thicker skin or shouldn't be reading their comments if you don't like them. I mean, you have limited time and you don't want to have to moderate every single message on your forums yet you don't want to lose control and lose everybody due to the trouble makers.

Solutions?

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ExecSG Team Lead

@MikeB

Quote:

I would love to see Kees Witteveen back at Amiga.org,

I think your right. Quite a few "good uns" have left for pastures anew.

That Mos Isley Spaceport dude is another one. I can't remember what his nick at A.org is now for love nor money but he is a regular at Murcs forums now.

The last few days I have been hanging out at my city's local forum too. Kinda fun actually.

We are in an anticlimax trough after the European shows. This will surely rise again for AmiWest. (We hope)

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I dont suffer from Insanity - I enjoy it

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