@ssolie

Presumably Troika and Hyperion wouldn't commit to a port unless they felt that the licensing issues with Amiga were a formality. And presumably you wouldn't have a Panda board just to display on your coffee table.

The biggest problem is the FUD factor. It's also the most manageable.

@ne_one

(1)complete hardware
(2)port OS4
(3)prove to AI it meets their needs

In relation to ACK, only Adam can state with any surety at which stage things
may have stalled.
It is also possible (please note "possible") that the over simplification of the
process above varies slightly depending on current conditions and position in
the Amiga community.
Look at it instead as merely raising the question "would you put your name on
a product if you have not even seen it? How would you determine if it meets your
needs?"
In the case of others having to assist you with making such a decision, these
issues can sometimes require a bit of communication back and forth before reaching
an agreement.

#6

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@wegster

Quote:

as I thought the assumption was 'add-ons' for classic didn't need a license..?

So what are you going to use on the CPU? PowerUP/WarpUP will not work, so your only option is Linux, AROS, MorphOS or AmigaOS4.


Quote:

it sounded like he was going to build the TL and _then_ worry about licensing...

It’s fully possible to sell his product to some Linux geeks, first he need some on that need some thing like that, or maybe he need to redesign it for that market.

Quote:

but until I can hold it in my hand, anything from ACK is vapor in my book, sadly.

ACK has proven that they ordered some thing, if you remember back in the news items, about individual computers, and A600 expansion. Individual computers in facts did buy some of ACK stock.

Quote:

and no tangible product that anyone has held in their hands.

This is the problem right now, ACK needs to show a prototype, don’t think Amiga Inc will automatically grant license, from the out side it looks like it’s extremely hard to even get Amiga Inc to take to know hardware manufactures.

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@wegster and NutsAboutAmiga

Unless I read your comments wrong, I think you are confusing the right to
produce PV LT (lite) for classic with the right to produce PV LT (lite) AND
distribute it with OS4 (OEM). Not the same thing.

#6

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@number6

Yes that’s what where tiring to point out, in more confusing words.

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Quote:

Mason wrote: @takemehomegrandma Please don't get me wrong, but why don't you pay for a banner ad? Your spamming is boring!

Ah ah ah ah


@all

I don't know about ACK, but we will see OS4 hardware

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@number6

>(1)complete hardware
>(2)port OS4
>(3)prove to AI it meets their needs

All fairly reasonable expectations, but I'm sure that any company investing in a project for the Amiga market would first get approved as a technology partner. Who would commit any resources before making sure that all 3 of these stipulations were viable?

An important point that someone else made is worth considering: why haven't a few of the smaller companies banded together? Asking too much for a level of professionalism I guess.

I think we should stop speculating and let Adam reply when the time is right.

Since I have no information beyond what has been said on AW.net and moobunny, I won't speculate any further.

However, I would still like to see PowerVixxen LT and PowerVixxen TL running OS4.
PV-LT running an 68k emulator for now could be very nice too.

---
redfox

Last edited by redfox on 03-Nov-2006 at 11:19 PM.
Last edited by redfox on 03-Nov-2006 at 11:17 PM.

@ne_one

Quote:

All fairly reasonable expectations, but I'm sure that any company investing in a project for the Amiga market would first get approved as a technology partner. Who would commit any resources before making sure that all 3 of these stipulations were viable?

This is a "process". It does not happen all in one fell swoop.
Communication continues through out this process. "Viability". Sure. At some
point there is a determination whether to proceed to the next step which might,
for example, require actually producing a proto.
But if you read ssolie's posts on AW you understand there are "no guarantees".
That is a different thing entirely from determining whether to invest in the
next "step".

Re:pooling resources
Search AW for "integrated hardware department" and hopefully you will find some
comments on that topic.

#6

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@ssolie

Whats the specs on the PANDA board?

SyperHawk

Last edited by Syperhawk on 04-Nov-2006 at 01:25 AM.

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@ssolie

I guess it may be a good idea that Hyperion got a PegasosIII when it's released... I'm sure it will be a better board (better cpu, better I/O, better expansion, better layout) than "panda".

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@Crumb

ATM everything is better than nothing
Any hardware will be a better board if it runs OS4 with a license..

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@ne_one

Quote:

>(1)complete hardware >(2)port OS4 >(3)prove to AI it meets their needs

No, who would be stupid enough to pay to produce a working prototype and the OS4 port without the guarantee of a license providing prerequisites are met.

No, it should be;

1:) Agree on a license in principle
2:) Produce prototypes
3:) Pay or arrange for OS4 port
4:) Manufacture

@tomazkid

BTW, Does "Panda" use a 7448 dual core or single core? If a dual core version is available it could be a good platform for Hyperion to try to enable multi-cpu support.

Last edited by Crumb on 05-Nov-2006 at 03:00 PM.

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@Crumb
Quote:

I'm sure it will be a better board (better cpu, better I/O, better expansion, better layout) than "panda".

Here I have a Troika Panda (no need for quotation marks) board right here and so does Hyperion. We have them and they run right now. So I should throw away this working Panda board right now and wait for some other evaluation board that isn't even available yet?

I know Amiga users like to wait for things but what the heck?

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@Colin_Camper
Quote:

No, it should be;

I think you are making the assumption these companies are producing hardware only for the OS4 market. It may not be that obvious but all these companies are actually trying to make some money off these projects. OS4 may or may not pay off so do you really think they don't have backup plans?

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@ssolie

Quote:

I think you are making the assumption these companies are producing hardware only for the OS4 market.

Let's get serious and please don't make me link to all this, heh!
It's not a case of "only".
Primary market is embedded as regards AI AND Hyperion.
Desktop is a "gift" in a sense. Consider it a bonus based on the attachment to
what the community desires. There is more to the need for desktop than that, but
I believe my statement to be accurate in the sense expressed.

Quote:

It may not be that obvious but all these companies are actually trying to make some money off these projects.

Errr...correct. And for those who wish to express and debate how things -should-
be, no problem. I merely stated how things -are-.
Without detail...significant investment has been made to produce the current
protos. If you are curious about how much money has been invested in these
high risk operations to produce hardware -before- having a license for OS4, I'm
sure there are plenty of folks here who could offer a clue. (forgive that word)

Quote:

OS4 may or may not pay off so do you really think they don't have backup plans?

No. I believe they -do-.

Edit(Added)re: ACK

Regardless of how one feels about follow through, let's not forget ACK's motive:
(1)CPU replacements - goal - initially to get people "back in the game" that needed
these parts. This would have obviously opened the door for a few more potential
developers, beta testers, etc.
(2)CPU additions - goal - same as above but also the opportunity to "swap" CPU
to the A1s, then move same to the PV when completed and replace original CPU in
the A1. This would effectively produce 2 desktop units at that point.
(3)PV LT - goal - the connection to the classic world obviously. Opportunity to
increase the user base more dramatically than with the CPUs.
(4)PV TL - goal - the path to the NG next desktop

If these projects are truly not going forward, apply (1-4) to what I said above
about focus. This should offer proof on the direction AI/Hyperion are headed if
the desktop focused solutions (ACK) are no longer being pursued.
I remind you that Adam has not stated this 1st hand and apologize if my review
of intent is an over simplification.

#6

Last edited by number6 on 05-Nov-2006 at 05:05 PM.

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I thought Redhouse clarified the situation about the
Amiga market with excruciating and accurate insight.

We're a bunch of "enthusiasts" in a "hobbyist" niche.

Was nobody listening to the man?

There will not be 100K of orders for Ack's board or
Sam and Panda. Not 20K, 10K or 5K.

How do you run a business on that?

That's right, it's a calling, a nostalgic desire to
repair the past before heavy weather and erosion
decimated it.

There is no going back.

Take the average "tight fisted" Amigan who will vote
with his dollars on which hardware to support and you've
got a quandry to overcome.

That's before you get to the actual diversity of Amiga
users and their sundry and various motivations for
sticking with it.

Now, to create a real quagmire, add in the various forums
where there is free speech. Which, if you follow conventional
wisdom, is worth what you pay for it.

And everybody seems to want an iron clad guarantee that
their desired poll option will be incorporated and that
this stuff will happen right now even though all the parties
are working on a shoestring and a prayer for funding and
development.

Lower your expectations and expand your deadlines.

Send the developers of your software a few bucks every
month and sit down quietly and wait. Most of them want
this more than you do and they are actually doing something
about it. When the hardware arrives, support it by buying it
which in turn will lead to more development.

Maybe then we will see 5K or 20K of unit sales within 5 years.

@kindergip

Well said.

Unfortunately there is a sizable portion of the community that have a hard enough time forking out $19.99 for a download of Amiga Forever. The same people who complain about hardware prices on eBay and how "idiots" keep driving the bidding price up and up. The same ones who keep pointing out that you can buy a complete PeeCee for $400, the same ones who insist that an A1 mobo should cost the same and no more than an Intel or AMD equipped one. The same ones who will be queuing up to download OS4 from their favourite warez site as soon as it is "
cracked" to run on their second hand PPC Mac. The same ones that only really like Linux because it is FREE.

I bought a second A1200 in an Elbox tower just for the Power Vixen. I'm getting sick of wasting good money to try and support hardware that is announced publicly and then cancelled behind closed doors.

I think OS4 on the Playstation 3 is our last hope.

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@kindergip

Quote:

I thought Redhouse clarified the situation about the Amiga market with excruciating and accurate insight.

Alans' tirade against his present and potential customers wasn't excrutiating.
It was pathetic.
It wasn't accurate. It was disingenuous.

No. Alan realised that his business model for the A1 had failed because of his poor choice of platform. His Amiga customers did everything asked of them. They sold out every batch of AmigaOne board. They hung onto their boards despite obvious shortcomings and defects. Alans' Chinese mirage never materialised - almost certainly due to the obvious problems with the hardware. He was in denial about the reasons for the failure of his A1 project and decided to publicly lampoon and insult his customers. This was the last public thing he did. Bog off! and Good Riddance, I say!

Compare and contrast with Genesi

They started out with the same hardware problems, quickly learned from their mistakes and produced the PegII which is universally regarded as stable and mature. They 'hard' sold the PegII (some may say a little too hard ) into the Amiga community. They gave away boards to prominent developers within the Amiga community. Eventually they started selling boards to corporate clients running Unix, Linux and Solaris. All the while they never belittled, insulted, lambasted or 'went silent to' the Amiga Community. (They did this and more to Individuals but that's not my point here.)