MikeB wrote:

"IMO if AmigaOS4 was to be ported to the PS3, the whole Amiga community could go through a revival. More people hearing about, checking out AmigaOS4 again may well result in increased Amiga interest overall, including more interest in what the classics were all about and what the clone efforts are about. For example I think AROS could benefit alot from AmigaOS4 being in the media spotlight again, Amiga Forever as well, etc."

One clear example:

New AROS interview:

"This time around, there was a post on Slashdot in December about the release of OS4, which reminded me again about AROS, so I swung by for another look.
Being more experienced this time round, the code made even more sense to me, and I had lots of spare time, so I decided that it was time to get into it more seriously."

http://arosshow.blogspot.com/2007/01/robert-norris-interview-hello-rob.html

@Trezzer

Quote:

. I have no problem with the PS3 performing well - well, if and when it will. Personally I hope the PS3 will do well enough to keep the others on their toes but no more. Another generation of Sony domination would be very sad indeed.

IMO especially with this generation of Playstation products, domination would be excellent. The smaller Cell can be used in many other types of products, it's really tiny, there's even less energy requirements, cooler and costs less, offering lots of potential. With the PS3 as a cheap development platform we may very well see amazing Cell software. Also if the PS3 does really well this offers lots of potential for alternative OS projects including AmigaOS4.

I also would like the XBox 360 and more so the Nintendo Wii do well enough (not only because of current users, but also) to put a little competitive pressure on Sony.

@MikeB

Is there any info on the level of power consumption from the new, smaller Cells?
I guess anything that lowers the 380W maximum consumption is a Good Thing(TM). I'm pretty sure that my three currently running computers don't even take up that much.

@MikeB

Quote:

I also would like the XBox 360 and more so the Nintendo Wii do well enough (not only because of current users, but also) to put a little competitive pressure on Sony.

You mean that you would like to see the PS3 and XBox 360 do well enough to give a little competitive pressure to Nintendo, as the Wii is currently on top of everything in sales and by the time the Playstation 3 will hit the European market it will have sold quite an impressive number of consoles. If Nintendo drops the price on the PS3 launch, it will be incredibly hard for Sony to ever catch up.

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@MikeB

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@Seehund Quote: Is that a yes or a no? I thought the two questions were pretty simple... The answer isn't so simple as anyone can make up from I have written in this and other threads. Support the PS3, AmigaOS4, other products sure that's what I like to do and would like to see other companies besides Fun Computing do as well.

I do believe we're actually approaching a straight answer now, baby step by baby step.

So, Fun Computing is your company?
And by "supporting", do you mean selling? Come on, it's not a dirty word! :)

Are you planning/hoping/wishing to sell PS3s? Yes or no?

Quote:

AmigaOS4 on the PS3, that's up to other parties, albeit I am hopeful. [sleaze snipped]

Far too vague, try again. Are you hopeful that other parties will acquire the right to sell OS4 for/with PS3 but you have no such plans yourself, or are you hopeful that you will acquire such a right?

One or two straight and honest answers might go a long way to explain your promotion of, ahem, a "rival platform" ;D and your surprising change of heart on the compulsory licensing issue.

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Oh, bother.

@Trezzer

Quote:

Is there any info on the level of power consumption from the new, smaller Cells? I guess anything that lowers the 380W maximum consumption is a Good Thing(TM). I'm pretty sure that my three currently running computers don't even take up that much.

You're complaining about Mike's spin (and I also think he goes a bit too far at times) but then you do the same....

380W is not the maximum power consumption, it is the rating of the power supply, at maximum that PSU will not be able to manage much over around 300W, and that's only if it's 80% efficient.

It's also been built with a considerable amount of headroom, the PS3 has all sorts of ports and all of these can consume power (in addition to the 2 drives and chips), in reality you're not likely to ever use them all simultaneously but the PSU has to be able to supply it and more just in case.

The actual *measured* power usage comes in around 200Watts when playing a game (it can peak about 10-15W higher). Xbox 360 is about 35 W lower.



The nice big 1080p TVs we'd all like to plug them into will consume more than either console.

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Whyzzat?

@minator

Quote:

380W is not the maximum power consumption, it is the rating of the power supply, at maximum that PSU will not be able to manage much over around 300W, and that's only if it's 80% efficient.

I have only read reports of 380W under maximum use. In fact I googled around a bit just now to find somewhere, where it said different, but didn't find any. So if I'm spinning this it's not by intent. In fact I'm just relaying what I've read several places.

It's good to hear that it's lower in reality. I do think that both 360 and PS3 could do with some trimming in that area though :-/ I mean... I don't exactly want to leave the console running the night over while downloading stuff.

Quote:

The nice big 1080p TVs we'd all like to plug them into will consume more than either console.

Not mine - but then again it's not so big even if it is 1080p (a max of 86 at maximum brightness in fact - 3W in standby)

@Tigger

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Whos living in denial, CES made it quite plain, HD-DVD is over, Blu-Ray has won, in one year we'll have this same conversation, and you'll be arguing that HD-DVD is going to make a comeback.

I'm not sure I agree. Personally I am more in the Blu-ray corner still, because of the studio support, but I think CES has been overblown too. If HD-DVD is capable of coming out with cheap players significantly before Blu-ray, that might end up building the critical mass to sustain the format for ever. At the moment HD-DVD is doing just fine, even though Blu-ray gets a lot of player sales (only) due to PS3.

I think it is likely both formats will be with us for a long time to come. I still think that if either wins, it will very, very likely be Blu-ray, but I don't think that any clear victory will necessarily happen. In some ways it would be a good thing too, because competition builds pressure to improve the product. So far HD-DVD kicks Blu-ray's butt on interactivity features and initially also on picture quality (forcing Blu-ray content authors to improve, which they now have).

@All,

I predict that XBOX360 will continue to sell slowly & surely as it is now but with M$ constantly reviewing their sales/shipped figs downwards it won't be the world/sony/nintendo beater they want. The games are great but not a huge leap forward over the last XBOX. GOW and Lost Planet are nice enough but feel like XBOX 1.5 games.


I predict the Wii will sell well for a year and a bit then tail off just like the Gamecube did. Although it's got novelty value this wears off after a few months. My friends got a 360 and a wii and he raved about it when he got it but now it sits unused - when plugged in last night it looked really poor after a few hours on the 360 and after a time waving that innacurate stick around is frustating, taxing and lame.

I predict the PS3 will be a slow burner, it will sell a huge number over 5 years just like the PS1 and PS2 and the games will steadily improve in that time aswell. The latest and best programmed PS2 games are almost the equal of XBOX(1) in terms of grahics, I remember being told splinter cell 'could not be done on a ps2' (yawn/easy) - It'll Sell more than the others *but* M$ will close the gap....

I predict M$ know this and will race to produce the NEXT XBOX - BUT Sony may not even bother trying to compete and that in 10 years there will be no more consoles but just converged PC type things that do everything to do with media in the house, including play games!

Games magazine has a good article on this, this month.

I predict Manchester United will win the premier league as well!

That's the one I'm most precious about to be honest!

I'm going to buy a preowned basic 360 soon (for Halo III)and a new ps3 next year for GT- Won't bother with Wii, nothing inspires.

Last edited by plus4 on 01-Feb-2007 at 01:51 PM.

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Put the needle to the record when the drum beats go like this...

@minator

Quote:

380W is not the maximum power consumption, it is the rating of the power supply, at maximum that PSU will not be able to manage much over around 300W, and that's only if it's 80% efficient.

80% efficiency is not at all far fetched for a Switched Mode Power Supply, typical computer supplies have 80-85% and the *theoretical* efficiency (without the losses of course) is 100%.

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@plus4

Ok, I'm coming out of self-banishment from this thread to reply to this.

http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4658&Itemid=2

While the Wii doesn't have as large an appeal to the "hardcore" gamer, just like this article says, it will bring in "new" gamers and "long lost" gamers.

Also, you'll note that MikeB listed the PS3 as the #1 selling console on Amazon.com, he fails to mention why. For instance, because the Wii sells out the day it arrives. So possibly 6 out of 7 days of every week, the PS3 is the #1 selling console, depending on how much competition the 360 gives it on any given day. Be proud...though I still don't have a link to the "Fun Computing" website where I can pre-order my PS3 with OS4 pre-installed...

Rumor has it, Nintendo ships slightly more Wii's to the US than Sony does and that you can find PS3's on store shelves any day in "most" stores and most areas.
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=22506
Oh, I guess it ain't a rumor.

In the interests of stating my motivations: www.gameparts.biz
Me and a friend run this site and most of our income comes from the GC/Wii homebrew scene. You'll also notice some of my personal "used" Amiga stuff for sale there. We have products for the Xbox, Xbox 360, Gamecube and Wii. When something tangible is released for the PS3, we will support that as well.

Last edited by Lou on 01-Feb-2007 at 02:35 PM.
Last edited by Lou on 01-Feb-2007 at 02:32 PM.

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jtsiren wrote: I'm not sure I agree. Personally I am more in the Blu-ray corner still, because of the studio support, but I think CES has been overblown too. If HD-DVD is capable of coming out with cheap players significantly before Blu-ray, that might end up building the critical mass to sustain the format for ever. At the moment HD-DVD is doing just fine, even though Blu-ray gets a lot of player sales (only) due to PS3.

I dont think there is anyway to build critical mass that way, and understand that HD-DVD players were being sold at a loss. Thats a business model Sony can support for awhile with PS3 and Microsoft can support with Xbox 360, but lets lose $200 more per HD-DVD unit isnt going to fly for the guys who want to push HD-DVD. WIth Sony, Disney and Fox solidly in the Blu-Ray only camp, 7 of the top 10 DVDs of last year will never appear of HD-DVD, with Universal the only major HD-DVD studio only 1 of the top 10 DVDs of last year will only be available on HD-DVD. Everyday (due to PS3), Blu-Ray increases its number of player margin by 1000s.

Quote:

I think it is likely both formats will be with us for a long time to come.

No, once Universal folds as a HD-DVD only studio, its pretty much over, the vendors hating caring both players and both kinds of disks. In our area, HD-DVD titles are already getting squeezed out by Blu_Ray in several stores, more space for Blu-Ray because Blu-Ray is selling better because there are more players.
Quote:

So far HD-DVD kicks Blu-ray's butt on interactivity features and initially also on picture quality (forcing Blu-ray content authors to improve, which they now have).

The LG dual player that goes on sale on Sunday, has none of the HDi features working on it and doesnt have an HD-DVD logo on the box as well, apparently Microsoft wouldnt give them a license. The Blu-Ray for Xbox360 prototype shows the even Microsoft (who has the largest installed base of HD-DVD players) realize this is going to be over RSN. Despite what everyone says, this has never been VHS vs Beta, this has always been DVD vs DIVX, and HD-DVD has had about as much chance as DIVX from the day that the PS3 announced they would ship with Blu_Ray standard.
-Tig

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We played the first thing that came to our heads, it just happened to be the best song in the world.

@plus4

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I'm going to buy a preowned basic 360 soon (for Halo III)and a new ps3 next year for GT- Won't bother with Wii, nothing inspires.

Dunno, the Wii was the only one that I really like, 'cause of its innovative controller. *If* it gets good games it *will* keep selling, mostly because it is cheaper and it has a controller that can be used by people who have never played a computer game in their lives.

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when plugged in last night it looked really poor after a few hours on the 360 and after a time waving that innacurate stick around is frustating, taxing and lame.

That "inaccurate stick" is actually very accurate, it's not used correctly yet. It uses solid state accelerometers, which are *very* accurate. True, these cannot give you its position in space alone but by knowing the original position of the wiimote, which you can find with the sensor bar, while its pointed at the screen, you can track its movements and hence its position, provided that the sample rate is high enough not to miss any small and slow movements.

Also, "it looked poor and lame"... None of the games currently released for the Wii use the console at all. Most of them are worse looking that some Gamecube games (see: Resident Evil 4). The graphics WILL get better once people start using the gfx chip instead of porting over GC code.

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@Lou

Quote:

Also, you'll note that MikeB listed the PS3 as the #1 selling console on Amazon.com, he fails to mention why. For instance, because the Wii sells out the day it arrives.

I just pointed out there is demand, never did I compare Amazon's Wii sales with PS3 sales. Amazon has sold out of PS3 stock, IMO this is happening at too many places. Canada has been without PS3 stock for far too long! Sony claims to be shipping 100,000 PS3 units to North America a week, but even if so that's clearly not enough.

With regard to the 'Blu-Ray is dead' rumours (sales data from DVDEmpire)

Dec. 2006 HD DVD 48.69% vs Blu-Ray 51.31%
Jan 2007 HD DVD 43.90% vs Blu-Ray 56.10%

The Blu-Ray market share is clearly increasing.

@Seehund

I am not sure if I will be investing more money into the Amiga market as long as people like you put such big stamp on the Amiga community. Maybe at some point if the fun loving enthusiasts clearly out-shout the naysayers and doom&gloom advocates.

I would like to see a winning attitude return to the community, instead of the whining attitude.

@MikeB

Quote:

MikeB wrote: I just pointed out there is demand, never did I compare Amazon's Wii sales with PS3 sales.

Our whole point is that you are exclusively selective of the information that you point out to satisfy your agenda without taking into account the actual picture of the way things are.

There is demand for comedian Eddie Murphy's "pop" album if 1 person orders it and it's not instock. Does that mean it's a resounding sell-out and a huge success?

Last edited by Lou on 01-Feb-2007 at 04:04 PM.
Last edited by Lou on 01-Feb-2007 at 04:04 PM.

@MikeB

Quote:

I would like to see a winning attitude return to the community, instead of the whining attitude.

As would I. You should see the thread where I suggested the modded GC be the CHEAPEST way to become the widely available PPC Amiga over at amiga.org, I was beaten and trolled to death.

A GC can be had on ebay for $25.00 and has a 487.5Mhz cpu. Take that Efika, SAM, ACK and whatever else comes along!

@Lou

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Our whole point is that you are exclusively selective of the information that you point out to satisfy your agenda without taking into account the actual picture of the way things are.

I do, I never mentioned if the Nintendo Wii is in stock or not. I already made it clear I view the XBox 360 as the PS3's main competitor, also the Nintendo DS and Apple Mac I even view as being less of a competitor.

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There is demand for comedian Eddie Murphy's "pop" album if 1 person orders it and it's not instock. Does that mean it's a resounding sell-out and a huge success?

You really think 1 PS3 sale results in topping Amazon's charts? The XBox 360 has been in stock at Amazon for many months, so that means they sold less than 1 unit right when it's ranking lower than the PS3?

Last edited by MikeB on 01-Feb-2007 at 07:51 PM.

@MikeB

Quote:

MikeB wrote: @Lou Lou wrote Quote: There is demand for comedian Eddie Murphy's "pop" album if 1 person orders it and it's not instock. Does that mean it's a resounding sell-out and a huge success? MikeB wrote: Quote: You really think 1 PS3 sale results in topping Amazon's charts? The XBox 360 has been in stock at Amazon for many months, so that means they sold less than 1 unit right when it's ranking lower than the PS3?

Once again you glaze over the actual point. Why would the 360 top Amazon's charts if they have been available for over a year? The *new* consoles on the block are the Wii and PS3. They are supposed to enjoy phenominal sales right now so your original quote about it being #1 on Amazon.com was selective and out of place in the grand scheme of things. I simply added that just because something sells out, doesn't mean that there is huge overwhelming demand. Restocking quantities change all the time.

A retailer who received 50 units of product X several months ago when it launched, does not re-order 50 units weekly if the second 50 took 1 month to sell. They may not order for a week, then sell out, then only order 10 at a time.
Just an example. But it goes to show how much of your links are useless and why you have the backlash that you do.

Last edited by Lou on 01-Feb-2007 at 04:42 PM.

@Lou

I am not going to flame you, but with regard to the GameCube I can imagine plausible obstackles for having AmigaOS4 on there. For one Nintendo may not even like this (marketing difficulties for sellers), we know Sony sees 'other OS support' as an important feature.

The GameCube only has 40 MB of RAM and lacks a hard drive. The CPU isn't the problem. Have you used Linux on the GameCube, if so do you think it offers an enjoyable environment to work with?