@pavlor

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Listen to the speech of Bill McEwen at Pianeta Amiga Show

Can you please do a short transcript of the *relevant* part, that you want me to know? The point only?

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Tell me why they shouldn't get the licence?

Amiga Inc and Hyperion is in conflict about OS4 fundamentals. Much is at stake (the whole OS4), and great values. Amiga Inc owns OS4 and they want Hyperion to hand it over, but obviously Hyperion does not share this view. ACube could turn to Hyperion for a port, and they could do the tech-part of it (as is the topic for this thread), but Hyperion does not have the rights to issue OEM licenses for OS4, not to ACube, not to others. ACube could turn to Amiga Inc, and I am sure Amiga Inc would love to be able to handle this on their own, but unfortunately they don't have an OS4 to offer. Their view is that OS4 is *theirs* and that Hyperion is holding it hostage. They are not interested in letting Hyperion making money based on AmigaInc property under these circumstances. They are in a conflict, and does not want to send money to their opponents. Besides, chances are that Amiga Inc's interest in OS4 is only about putting it on the IP-stack, making Amiga Inc more valuable to potential buyers. They have never been in the OS4 business, that was not what the company was about at all. It has never been their interest, not even when the company was actually alive and operating. If you put forward a list over all those who has been granted an OS4 license, and I put forward a list over all those who have tried, then I'm pretty sure that my list would be about 8 times longer than yours. The $500.000 requirement from Amiga Inc is only one of many crappy excuses they have used through the years. Who could possibly hope to make that kind of money on OS4 distribution anyway? And this is a requirement to even be considered for a port! This is one of two ways Amiga Inc "does business"; either set the terms to be totally un-acceptable for anyone with a brain bigger than an ants, or simply give them "the silent treatment" (wasn't that a quote from ACK's AmigaInc experience BTW?). Would ACube really meet up to those requirements, even if they would have been anything more than a crappy excuse for not getting involved? I think not. And I also think that $500.000 is a science-fiction sum for Amiga Inc *themselves* today.

@takemehomegrandma

Quote:

Can you please do a short transcript of the *relevant* part, that you want me to know? The point only?

Link

You need to find the relevant part by yourself.

@takemehomegrandma

You tell me to stick to the facts and then write posts consisting of several hundred words of what can at best be described as speculation.

@takemehomegrandma

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I'm sorry but I have to ask - Are you "samface" using a different nick? Anyway, the Efika, Pegasos 8641, Samanta, and Moana is *very similar* in an OS4 context, and faces the same two obstacles; the OS needs to be ported, and they will need to be able to distribute the OS in a legal manner. Porting, distribution. Two things. Porting is not an issue here really, not for any of the above mentioned. But legal distribution is a problem. Acube will never get a license (nor will anyone else) because of the locked-down AmigaInc/Hyperion situation. I think this is becoming more and more obvious to most people here. If AmigaInc manage to take back OS4 away from Hyperion, development will stop. If Hyperion refuses to hand over the OS, they will still not be able to make business based upon it, other than for a stand-alone version for the CSPPC/BPPC. That is no future, and OS4 would stop. Genesi, however, have a different approach of achieving legal distribution of OS4, and if they succeed (which is quite probable if you look at all the things that has happened during and after the last legal process was put on ice), it will also mean a lot more than simple distribution of binaries - it will mean the possibility of continued OS4 development independent of Amiga Inc (I'm sure all OS4 developers are welcome to join in if that happens, be them clones or not (), although the project may not necessarily stand or fall with their presense). IMHO, this is truly something to hope for. IMHO, this will be the only way for OS4 to continue to exist, continue to be developed, and ported to and distributed for all kinds of PPC based hardware.

You know what? I'm not going to bother to give you explanations anymore. For the simple reason that you simply don't want to listen to what you are told and you always come up with your propaganda and FUD. This last reply from you is an obvious example: you wanted to put BBRV and the guys that got ExecSG to run on Moana on the same level as regards the legal problems connected to the license issue and once you are given for the Nth time the obvious answer, you totally ignore the arguments presented, repeat your void stance and add more of the same FUD that's been countered with valid arguments a countless number of times by several users.
You are not open to discussion, you are a Master Troll with a very clear agenda and as such you do not deserve any attention at all.

saimo

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RETREAM - retro dreams for Amiga, Commodore 64 and PC

@ChrisH

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What's the difference between Samantha & Mona? I've obviously lost track...

Rob anticipated me with a clear and correct answer

saimo

_________________
RETREAM - retro dreams for Amiga, Commodore 64 and PC

@Rob

Of course legality is a *prerequisite*. If it can't be done *legally*, it *won't be done*.

Quote:

Quote: they have never said they would use "illegal hacks" They have never worded that way.

Exactly. You made that up. "Illegal" and "hack" was in your head only. In BBRV's head, there is "legal" and "proper".

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we take the position that we have an OS4 licence.

Yes. That is their stance on the matter. Legal.

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We don't need Amiga Inc or Hyperion.

Yes. That is their stance on the matter. Proper. With or without Hyperion. I bet they wouldn't mind doing it *with* them if they can come to terms everyone can accept. I'm sure they understand perfectly well that this would be preferrable.

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We will release OS4 for Efika.

Yes. That sums it up pretty good. Their aim is to release OS4 for the Efika. A proper, legal version.

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If you don't get a licence from Amiga Inc

...then you would have to use the license *you already* have!

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and you don't pay Hyperion to port OS4 to your hardware using official sources, Id like to know what you call that.

...if they can't come to terms with Hyperion, they will have to do it themselves. The contract grants them the rights to do this, and if the contract can be considered legal for OS4, then there is no problem for them doing that. Of course, it would be best to close a deal with Hyperion, but that would probably require some people to think about what can be considered realistic terms. Thousands or tens of thousands of euros to 30+ developers and to Hyperion is *not* realistic for an Amiga product that could possibly hope to sell a few hundred units. I think it would require that people continue to consider the situation as they do today with Hyperion (volunteer, hobby basis, for fun, etc), and at best be part of sharing the income from OS sales (which won't be much money at all, if something drastic doesn't happen to the Amiga market).

Again - Of course legality is a *prerequisite*. If it can't be done *legally*, it *won't be done*.

@takemehomegrandma

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.if they can't come to terms with Hyperion, they will have to do it themselves. The contract grants them the rights to do this

What contract?

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and if the contract can be considered legal for OS4, then there is no problem for them doing that.

There was a legal judgement whereby Amiga Inc was ordered to port Amiga DE/Anywhere to Pegasos. Any contract that Genesi has with Amiga Inc does not include Amiga OS4, that has been proven in court already.

@takemehomegrandma

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In BBRV's head, there is "legal" and "proper".

lol...

You really do come out with the biggest load of waffle I have ever read. Forget pancakes - consider youself a waffle expert.

@takemehomegrandma

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"Illegal hack", my god, if that isn't FUD then I don't know what is. They have *never* proposed such a thing, they have proposed *legal* development and *legal* distribution. One can only hope they succeed, but in the meantime, please keep to the facts and don't make up things like this!

Sorry, but what exactly is releasing a version of OS4 running on the Efika that has been hacked together without the source code, if not a hack?

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@Rob

Quote:

There was a legal judgement whereby Amiga Inc was ordered to port Amiga DE/Anywhere to Pegasos. Any contract that Genesi has with Amiga Inc does not include Amiga OS4, that has been proven in court already.

I know that, but you must understand that a lot of things has happened since then. I think they still have a case, maybe even more so now than before actually, and with quite good chances!

@AMiGR

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a version of OS4 running on the Efika that has been hacked together without the source code, if not a hack?

That would indeed be a hack...

@takemehomegrandma

If you want seriously manufacture hardware, then these requirements (business plan, budget and current revenue figures that are at least $ 500,000.00 per year in revenue) are understandable.

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..if they can't come to terms with Hyperion, they will have to do it themselves. The contract grants them the rights to do this, and if the contract can be considered legal for OS4, then there is no problem for them doing that.

Five years of A.Inc/Genesi conflict brought nothing. There isn't OS4 for Pegasos, There isn't cooperation on OS4 port for Efika. I think, path, that Genesi has choosen is an death end.
In my point of view, there is only one way for OS4 on Genesi's hardware: they must terminate all legal actions against Amiga.Inc and give up all claims on OS4.

@takemehomegrandma

Yes, and that's the only possibility of making it work without Hyperion's, let alone the Friedens' help.

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@pavlor

Quote:

If you want seriously manufacture hardware, then these requirements (business plan, budget and current revenue figures that are at least $ 500,000.00 per year in revenue) are understandable.

It's only one of their many bullsh!t arguments, nothing more. New conditions like this pops up all the time from those people. Poor excuses. Amiga Inc themselves haven't seen this kind of money since they had their office furniture auctioned off by their landlord. They haven't been able to pay a single one of the debts they were ordered to pay by judge.

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There isn't OS4 for Pegasos

Yes there is. Proper. Not public though.

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There isn't cooperation on OS4 port for Efika.

Probably not today. There *can* be cooperation though. I think Timothy De Groote's wishes to break with Amiga Inc is genuine, and I think that if Genesi could be able to help out on this issue, there might be some common grounds for cooperation. If no terms can be agreed to though, Genesi seems confident to push ahead on their own.

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they must terminate all legal actions against Amiga.Inc

The only thing that needs termination is Amiga Inc.

@AMiGR

I think not.

@takemehomegrandma

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If no terms can be agreed to though, Genesi seems confident to push ahead on their own.

I fail to see how illegally operating can benefit anyone - it certainly cant benefit the future of OS4, maybe thats their point.

And what the heck is so important about OS4 for Genesi? If its not the community or the software then its sticking a finger up at Amiga Inc? Making them spend on lawyers? There is always money in IP and patents. Genesi might even drag Gateway into it if they are lucky.

Feel free to carry on waffling on various thoughts all these companies have, and whats going on in everyones heads, and blowing the "stuff them all for developing OS4 in the first place" trumpet.

@Benji

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I fail to see how illegally operating can benefit anyone

There is another one using the word "illegal". Again - full legality is a prerequisite!

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it certainly cant benefit the future of OS4, maybe thats their point.

They are doing it for the benefit of OS4's future.

@takemehomegrandma

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There is another one using the word "illegal". Again - full legality is a prerequisite!

Because BBRV has not got a contract for OS4 in any way, shape or form.

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They are doing it for the benefit of OS4's future.

Do you really appreciate how hard that is for most people to hear that without bursting out laughing? You have a very one-sided view.

Last edited by Benji on 28-Jan-2007 at 05:00 PM.

@takemehomegrandma
If you were to be just a *little* less certain of the truth, to show a little humility, to admit that you are only making a good guess (i.e. don't know for sure, 100%), then I think you'd get along a lot better with those who hold a different view to you.

(As it happens, I do happen to think you are probably right, but...)

_________________
Author of the PortablE programming language.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

I'm surprised to read that Exec has been ported to "Mona". Presumably then the port to Samantha has progressed much further...

_________________
Author of the PortablE programming language.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...