@number6

And yes of course this is their board. If this is not the place for customers to discuss their varied experiences on this topic and to share information thats up to them of course. As long as the email went to the intended recipient and you have no prior agreement I'm not sure where a problem can be construed. People are outing Microsoft and AOL for bad customer service all the time. And even when its been ugly like here for AOL:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13447232/

they addressed it head on. (I.E. an apology and a fix).

Again this cloak and dagger stuff is just so very odd. Its not like they have to be in this business if they don't want to be. I'd be all for saying "lets all take this type of stuff to amiga.com forums" but some of us can't get an account on there, others who had one are having issues etc.

Where do we go to band together for strength in numbers then I guess is the question, with it in mind that we actually want to see them be successful!

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 24-Feb-2007 at 07:52 PM.

_________________
Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

@fairlanefastback
You're preaching to the choir. Amiga Inc apparently has little to no respect for 'the community,' and griping about it, or saying 'they should' time and again may feel good, but what do you expect it to achieve?

We're all pretty aware that AInc doesn't seem to have any interest, is poor at responding to emails (RFC non compliance or not, again, they get their mail just fine..), and have yet to product product of any interest to the Amiga community.

It's certainly not AW staff pushing anything 'cloak and dagger,' but AInc has very little interaction with the public. If you choose to write them, and receive no response, it's not 'unusual,' nor 'unexpected' by most of us.

@thread-
No, posting of email responses will not be tolerated, without permission of the sender. It's poor netiquette, as it is a _private_ communication unless agreed to as otherwise, and unethical, if not of questionable legality.

_________________
Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

@wegster

Quote:

wegster wrote: @fairlanefastback You're preaching to the choir.

Well it doesn't sound like we are "singing" in unison quite I suppose. And its not like they never ever read here I would think.

Quote:

but what do you expect it to achieve?

I can understand very easily what it might be like to have dealt with their attitude for years and expect nothing. I'm sorry that I'm treating this like a young blood whereas someone dealing with this much longer would perhaps expect nothing to be achievable. Thats not a dig, rather I'm tired after just trying to re-enter into playing with more Amiga stuff again recently. So I get that.

As for achieving things. You know what, I got creative and they fixed their record. That may mean nothing to a lot of people but it shows they aren't dead. Someone has a number to someone. And people can call Seehund foolish but its better to expend energy to be like a cohesive unit than to just give up.

Quote:

RFC non compliance or not, again, they get their mail just fine.

Well yes they fixed it. It seems like they made some changes with servers recently between that and the website work recently. But for a time they had the record set incorrectly which caused the issue for someone apparently. And certainly the particular mistake made can cause that, its a documented issue, hence why I tried to pass on for them to fix it and they did. So kudos to them for that. I'm not sure I get why you want to insist, despite a variety of email server solutions in place in this world with various versions for each as if this is impossible, especially despite it being a documented issue that it can occur that you would profess that it can't. But thats fine if you want to say that. I'm not trying to convince anyone. They can take it at its own merits and look it up if they want. 'nuff said on that. :)


Quote:

t's not 'unusual,' nor 'unexpected' by most of us.

Lol I'm VERY well aware of that. Anyone new need only be here a day or two to figure that out, which is sad of course.


I'll just end my response by saying I'm not looking to get into a debate with you (or anyone) who desires the same thing.

Hopefully their silence means a deal is soon to come with Hyperion and for SAM. I'll try the silent optimism route for a while I guess!

_________________
Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

@All

Considering the magnitude of the server maintenance performed, this was a small oversight.

For those who mentioned something about an apology, there was a notice posted on the amiga.com website some days before said server maintenance in which Amiga, Inc. apologized for ANY inconvenience it caused. Seems to me this was such an inconvenience.

Mail servers that Amiga's mail server needed to contact to deliver and/or otherwise relay mail to/through may have refused email from and to Amiga while the MX record was incorrect. Sendmail servers don't typically complain. However, entities using Exim (and others) as their mail server have been known to refuse mail from servers that have an incorrect MX record. Other reasons this could happen include a bad reverse IP map. The problem was tracked down and the issue corrected immediately, but it took time for the DNS records to propagate after they were corrected.

Humans err and, while the aforementioned maintenance and inconvenience notice should have covered it, I'll make the effort to apologize again for any inconvenience this caused on behalf of Amiga, Inc.

Can we move on now? Thanks.

Last edited by HMetal on 26-Feb-2007 at 09:45 AM.
Last edited by HMetal on 26-Feb-2007 at 09:44 AM.
Last edited by HMetal on 26-Feb-2007 at 09:42 AM.
Last edited by HMetal on 26-Feb-2007 at 09:26 AM.

_________________
Disclaimer: All opinions expressed in this message are my own and not those of my employer.

--
Ray A. Akey (AKA HMetal) - Designer / Photographer
http://www.phofan.com - Photography Fan Community Forums

@HMetal

Hi Ray, thanks for the post, nice to see someone from Amiga follows the forums a bit.

_________________

amiga inc replyed......... holy macarony i fell of my chair, chocked on my coffie.... this is a sign from the above...

_________________
I was a ZX Spectrum owner....

@HMetal

Quote:

Humans err and, while the aforementioned maintenance and inconvenience notice should have covered it, I'll make the effort to apologize again for any inconvenience this caused on behalf of Amiga, Inc.

With respect, web presence location & maintenance and email presence location & maintenance are not necesarily always tied. The only purpose of this thread was to explain to the user population here why they may have a problem in emailing you guys. And time was taken to display it was fixed as well. We are grateful for this! :) Unfornately there was some confusion also with your notice having a day of the week and date mentioned that were not the same day, so its commencement date was also a bit of a mystery. Again as you say humans err, no biggie. NONE OF US are perfect and thanks for posting on this, I certainly appreciate it and I am sure others do as well.


Quote:

Can we move on now? Thanks.

Yes we are most excited to "move on". To be frank Ray, the main reason people talk in circles here is because you guys IMO (and in many others it seems) are coming up short on keeping your potential customer base informed. And while its great the MX record is fixed on some levels "whats the point" will come to mind for many since you guys seem to often not answer emails.

You have a small customer base trying to stay loyal. Please "move on" with us with a dialogue of some tangible type. Thats all I think most of us are asking.

Again thank you for your reply on this.

P.S. Some of us have been waiting quite some time on amiga.com forum account activation FYI.

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 26-Feb-2007 at 03:42 PM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 26-Feb-2007 at 03:42 PM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 26-Feb-2007 at 03:34 PM.

_________________
Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

@fairlanefastback

Quote:

To be frank Ray, the main reason people talk in circles here is because you guys IMO (and in many others it seems) are coming up short on keeping your potential customer base informed.

I'm sure you read Ray's "disclaimer".
Since email is back in order, try expressing this to Bill instead.

#6

_________________
This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

@number6

Quote:

I'm sure you read Ray's "disclaimer". Since email is back in order, try expressing this to Bill instead.

The disclaimer is for what he says here not necessarily being the views of Amiga, Inc. which is fine. That dosen't mean that I can't express something to him, especially since he is an Amiga employee. :) The more employees at Amiga aware of what is going on out in the community the better.

ADDITIONALLY expressing to Bill might be a good idea, but when we get any employee's attention there, which apparently is not easy, its worth taking advantage of that moment.

_________________
Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

@fairlanefastback

Heh! I'm not arguing your "right" or motivation to take advantage of the opportunity to be heard.
I'm just saying they are well aware of your thought and how they believe people feel about them.
Note the "emoticon" in Ray's post.
It's all part of the Amiga Inc. persecution complex.
No matter how many times I express the thought to them of any community willingness to assist in solving the issues, this seems to persist.
Frankly, it's a big part of why they don't participate here. No matter how many times they seek to re-enter the community, they feel they are getting nothing but grief.
Beyond that...as I stated in an earlier post, once you are receiving the advice of legal council, your hands are tied regarding what you say and how you say it.
They know darn well that the community here can..and will "turn on a dime" when something positive happens. They have no intention of announcing anything to the general public until the conditions warrant same.

@Ray

ok. The "emoticon" is your sense of humor too, but you know darn well there is more to your use of that "emoticon" than that.
I'm sure I will regret making this post, just as you regret making some of yours.

#6

_________________
This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

@fairlanefastback

Quote:

Can we move on now? Thanks.

Well, to be fair to Ray; He is pretty consistent in not getting involved in idle speculation or 'unauthorised announcements'.

We will not know if Amiga Inc have moved on until Sam is obviously ready and then we see Sam/OS4 bundles for sale at Amikit or not!

Obviously depending on the above we will be congratulating Amiga Inc on their new AmigaOne partner or berating them!

@all

get down on your knees!!, get down on your knees!!!....... amiga inc have spoken!

_________________
I was a ZX Spectrum owner....

@number6

Quote:

I'm just saying they are well aware of your thought and how they believe people feel about them.

I hear ya. :)

Quote:

It's all part of the Amiga Inc. persecution complex.

I don't want to sound like a jerk by any means but I think its about time they get over that.

Quote:

Frankly, it's a big part of why they don't participate here.

How about some starting baby steps, like approving pending amiga.com forum account requests so we can take some of this over there is my first reaction to your statement.

Quote:

They know darn well that the community here can..and will "turn on a dime" when something positive happens.

Thats probably true, but its not the most courteous attitude, and companies should try to be courteous to interested & current customers.

Also with newer ventures like Hakia being out there bad publicity for Amiga makes no sense to be fostering, whether by action...... or inaction.

Quote:

Beyond that...as I stated in an earlier post, once you are receiving the advice of legal council, your hands are tied regarding what you say and how you say it.

This usually includes helping to craft a statement to customers and potential customers to allay their fears, especially in light of any legal action that would affect their ability to service said customers. A good example is how RIM kept customers informed during issues with NTP for Blackberry users.

Based on the small size of this community and the fervent devotion of many in that community they probably need to be MORE concerned about community engagement that many other companies. If there is certain stuff they can't touch on at the moment they should try to engage in other ways, especially in light of previous mistakes in dealing with the community.

_________________
Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

@Colin_Camper

Quote:

We will not know if Amiga Inc have moved on until Sam is obviously ready and then we see Sam/OS4 bundles for sale at Amikit or not!

I'd argue that worthwhile community engagement could be done and is deserved before Sam/OS4 bundles magically one day are for sale at Amikit.com.

_________________
Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

@fairlanefastback

Quote:

How about some starting baby steps, like approving pending amiga.com forum account requests so we can take some of this over there is my first reaction to your statement.

They have been having a tremendous problem with spam for quite some time.
My sense is that they are attempting to rectify this at present.
This may be the reason new account requests have not been acted on.
Maybe you can facilitate activating your account by sending another mail to Ray and explaining this.

#6

_________________
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*Secrecy has served us so well*

@fairlanefastback

Quote:

I'd argue that worthwhile community engagement could be done and is deserved before Sam/OS4 bundles magically one day are for sale at Amikit.com.

Yes, but there are multiple issues to consider here. One, of course, is that of not "stealing the thunder" from those directly responsible for producing product. This is protocol, and a similar thought was expressed by Hyperion about not speaking for the hardware devs.
Likely, it would take the shape initially of a joint press release to show solidarity, clearly displaying the unification of purpose.
Beyond that, each company would continue to speak on issues likely related to solely their own company.

#6

_________________
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*Secrecy has served us so well*

@HMetal


About bloody time you showed up chap! Where the hell have you been hiding?:)

_________________
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@number6

Quote:

Beyond that, each company would continue to speak on issues likely related to solely their own company.

I'm all for Amiga speaking where they feel they can of course. This near total silence I feel is a mistake though.

_________________
Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

@fairlanefastback
Quote:

I'd argue that worthwhile community engagement could be done and is deserved before Sam/OS4 bundles magically one day are for sale at Amikit.com.

I disagree. We don't trust them. There is no point in them talking to us because everything they state will be spat upon (see d0c for example). Show us results like shipping product I can buy at AmigaKit.com or don't bother. Once product is available and users start coming back then and only then should the community be engaged again. All you will get now is more annoying flame wars and useless discussions like this one.

_________________
ExecSG Team Lead

@ssolie

Quote:

All you will get now is more annoying flame wars and useless discussions like this one.

Thanks for the compliment regarding my input...

#6

_________________
This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*