In the transcript it just says "2 million", it doesn't specify 2 million *dollars*. Maybe it's 2 million pancakes!

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Here for the whimpering end

I haven't read through it all, but Amiga's reply has a number of assertions that are unsupported. For example, they repeatedly say that Hyperion used their trademarks outside the scope of the license and that Hyperion admitted to this. Regardless of how strong/weak you think Hyperion's response to the original case was, this is not true. Hyperion explicitly stated that they have not and gave evidence countering each example provided by Amiga Inc.. At least they've refuted the claim that the developer pre-release was the release of OS4.0. However, I don't see much evidence (if any) to support refuting that claim.

If the 2 million (dollar US?) offer is true, it's very dissapointing that it didn't resolve the issues and move forward. Hyperion stated somewhere that they have spent just under 1 million on this project, so 2 million sounds like a profit. Of course, I don't think that you can legally take over someone else's contracts and debts. That would require agreement from all sub-contractors at least. Actually, they would probably have to write a whole set of new contracts. I wonder what other demands both parties had?

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http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more. Home of the RadeonHD driver for Amiga OS 4.x project.
https://keasigmadelta.com/ - More of my work.

@Cool_amigaN
Quote:

Anyway, I am really confused (once again). First I would like to know why the the minilaptop has only a 5'' LCD screen! Well, how "mini" would that be?

That is ridiculously small unless you're talking about a handheld gaming device. But then keep in mind, given the timeframe of the conversation that hardware was probably specified by ACK - I'm sure everyone has their own opinions on how realistic that would make it.


Quote:

One thing that I liked was that Amiga did make an offer. Not an impressive one but still a very good one! And as McEwen states they doubled the offer from what Hyperion asked.

Erm, discounting the likelyhood that McEwen was just talking out his a$$, what makes that not an impressive offer? I mean, double what had been requested is one hell of a tip!


Quote:

I didn't liked the part about the Friedens changing their mails to "amiga.com".

Why is that? It's starting to sound more and more like Hyperion is the root of all the problems with OS4. Sure, AInc. sucks too, but in a competition of who has been more sucky things aren't looking so great for Hyperion at this point.

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Here for the whimpering end

I can think of one issue that Hyperion might have with the 2 million dollar deal. If the 2 million dollar deal went through, what would Hyperion's future be? They would receive a lump sum, but no further revenue from OS4 (note: I'm making assumptions about the agreement here). If the Friedens were to join Amiga Inc.'s development team, how many contractors would Hyperion have left for their game ports? In short, Hyperion might have to rebuild from almost nothing.

Hans

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http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more. Home of the RadeonHD driver for Amiga OS 4.x project.
https://keasigmadelta.com/ - More of my work.

@Hans

The other thing is that Amiga Inc have a history of not paying people.

@Hans

If the Friedens "were" to join Amiga Inc., Hyperion will have nadda. Even if A.Inc. doesn't get OS4 back in its entirety, Hyperion would not have an OS to sell or 2 Million dollars. This case could flatten Hyperion into nothing even if this turns into a stalemate.

Whether it's buy back or buy in, they were still supposed to turn over code to A.Inc.

Meanwhile, WE the Amiga community have been taken hostage by a bunch of LAWYERS . . .

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Avatar babe - Monica Bellucci.

@wolfe

No we, Amiga community are very happy that Hyperion could make OS4 for us.

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Philippe 'Elwood' Ferrucci
Sam460 1.10 Ghz
AmigaOS 4 betatester
Amiga Translator Organisation

I suggest everyone read the e-mail conversation between McEwan and Olaf Barthel from May '06.
http://www.merlancia.us/amiga-hyperion/35-5decmcewenexhibit5show_case_doc.pdf (Exhibit L)

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Currently planning to upgrade my Amstrad CPC

@Skunkfish

I would call this Amiga Inc killing their own case when taken with Fleecy on the OS 3.1,3.5 an 3.9 sources.

Last edited by Spectre660 on 27-May-2007 at 06:30 PM.

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Sam460ex : Radeon Rx550 Single slot Video Card : SIL3112 SATA card

@samface

Did you even read the court documents on Justicia up on PDF or the response?? If my reading is correct, the company making the OS allegedly didn't get paid in full or anywhere close to that.

The case in question as I see it (we'll see how the judge sees it) has both sides of the matter not following through on stated contract points and really there is a possibility that both sides have violated said agreement. I don't think the courts will really care who did what first. If both are found to be in violation than the contract may no longer exist. The big question in contract law is if one company can inherit the assets and the contract of another company that buys it's assets. One company can "buy" debt from another. Assets are another question entirely.

There is a lack of transparency here if one looks at it from either side of things. You mention that one of them wouldn't have much of a case, well it's obvious that one side accused the other of violating it's contract while not realizing they might have already been negligent of doing so themselves already..

I wish both sides the best, I think if they sat down with each other and settled this out of court, we'd be all better off. I personally think Amiga would be better off saying okay this is another bad situation, we don't wanna get stuck in the mud and just work on announcing OS 5 and do it in house with lessons learned.

It's obvious both parties have marketing intentions for OS4 that go well beyond the original contract (remember that required the OS to be sold with motherboard hardware only), and the licensor may not be legally the same company that signed the original contract and the current licensor may not have even entered into a contract with the alleged licesencee)..

It's a big mess.. I think if Amiga Inc has enemies the biggest one might be themselves considering the situation they are in.. I hope it's all resolved in a manner that is profitable for all concerned and the community. I think the court thing is a mistake but time will tell..

The other question is: if Amiga Inc. was insolvent does the new company really have $2mill?? It's one thing to offer someone something, do they even have that to give ? Especially if they lawsuit is over $50,000. Something doesn't sound right here.. Maybe it is 2 million pancakes..

Last edited by DonnieA2 on 27-May-2007 at 06:58 PM.

@Spectre660

Just finished reading the latest documents. Amiga Inc have dropped some real bombshells here. I don't know what this will do for the court case. Amiga Inc chuck back a few solid arguments, but most of their latest documents just seem to be refuting Hyperion's assessments.

However, the documents do include some enlightening statements that explain a lot about what has been going on behind the scenes. The e-mail to Olaf in particular spells out the financial problems that caused Amiga Washington's implosion, and there are also hints in there and in the Skype chat with the Friedens about some of Amiga Inc's plans for Amiga OS, and they sound fantastic. It really does sound like Amiga Inc really are the best hope for moving Amiga OS forwards.

The only thing I've puzzled about is the repetition of the "OS5 has been under development for two years" claim. Yet they also suggest in the court documents that they need OS4 to progress with OS5. They seem keen enough to get their hands on OS4 and the Friedens that it would seem unlikely to be solely to stop Hyperion from competing with them. I believe that they need OS4 to be able to complete OS5. It sounds like they would not have access to Olaf's version of 3.1, and developing from scratch would take a lot longer than two years, so whatever work has been done on OS5 it must not be a complete OS, and they need OS4 to be able to finish it.

It seems like they also have a strong desire to release OS4 on a variety of hardware systems, but are no longer willing to work through Hyperion to do this. They want to pay Hyperion out of the equation, and bring development in-house, to move towards OS5. This would leave Hyperion with nothing other than a one-off payment from Amiga, since the AmigaOne is dead, and sales to the classic market is of minimal potential value. Amiga have also made it clear that they want the Friedens as part of the deal, which would leave Hyperion short of developers for future projects.

In the absence of any other information (and I do hope that Hyperion can provide such information, because I have the highest respect for what they have achieved) it appears that Hyperion have indeed been holding OS4 to ransom, so that they can remain in charge of future development. They may have very strong business reasons to not want to accept the deals offered by Amiga Inc, but those deals do sound very reasonable from Amiga Inc's point of view, and it actually looks like Amiga Inc actually offer the better future for the Amiga platform, but Hyperion's unwillingness to be forced out of the picture is holding this back.

It's great to be finally finding out some of the hidden behind the scenes information, but it's also so frustrating! The OS is complete, several different hardware projects are nearing completion, there seem to be lots of interesting future plans, but none of it can be brought together because of this dispute!

@Skunkfish

I find interesting the conversation between Nicola Morcutti and Bill McEwen.

Lots of lies have been told, many on this board by trusted people. I never liked the way the ACube/Hyperion business was being done whan it first came to light.

My 2 cents....

It's a complete mess on amigaland, regardless of who's fault it is.

Now I wonder about the real 'behind the scene' reasons why AHT, genesi, acill, and others where not able to get an OS4 license.

Reading more and more documents, and extrapolating this on past communications (or lack of) from involved partys it seems more and more that Ainc was the victim of the other partys. (but ofcourse this is their intention....)

A pitty, a real pitty.........

Martin

edit: please ignore typos... I cant be bothered to fix them, on the other hand... Me typing this cost me more time and effort then fixing the typos... A, nevermind

Last edited by Metalheart on 27-May-2007 at 07:43 PM.

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Theres a time to live and a time to die
When its time to meet the maker
Theres a time to live but isnt it strange
That as soon as you're born you're dying

@madtrekker

Quote:

I believe that they need OS4 to be able to complete OS5.

There are plenty of things they could have done during those two years just to bring the environment up to modern standards without needing access to the sources to OS4. A modern workbench replacement for example with support for all kinds of modern standards (OpenGL, OpenAL, OpenVG, etc).
Maybe even a proper browser and other additional tools that people just expect to have in an OS these days. But I guess they do need the sources to make the updates to the inner workings that they may have planned.

McEwen asks the Frieden brothers how much of the 2 million should be specified to go to them, as Hyperion still owe them about 750 000.

I think that if the Friendens really believed that this kind of funds were available, they wouldn't testify against Amiga Inc.

Last edited by Pyramider on 27-May-2007 at 07:56 PM.

@COBRA

Quote:

Hyperion can only sell what is theirs, and they don't own the rights to much of the OS

Yikes... this is sooo confusing.

Didn't the Friedens contest the fact that Amiga Inc. owns the pre-OS4 code in the first place?

Did Hyperion ever actually complete (and archive) the work undertaken on their behalf for Amiga? It sounds like they just kept the momentum going and never put a stake in the ground.

[Conspiracy]


Looking at the timelines on some of the documents has no one thought how coincidental it is that both..

Dave Haynie & Carl Sassenrath made brief, but storming visits to this site?


[/Conspiracy]

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I dont suffer from Insanity - I enjoy it

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@All

To be honest there is too much good stuff in the document for me to allow myself to believe a word of it. But thats what the last 10 years have done...

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Sven Harvey
Amiga Mart in Micro Mart, Geekology 4M@, and other places
A1000, A2000, A1500 A500, CDTV, A500+, A600, A4000, A1200, CD32, AT A1200HD, A1-XE

@madtrekker

Quote:

Just finished reading the latest documents. Amiga Inc have dropped some real bombshells here. I don't know what this will do for the court case. Amiga Inc chuck back a few solid arguments, but most of their latest documents just seem to be refuting Hyperion's assessments.

They have more like killed their arguments.
The pre OS4.0 source code issue is a death blow to their complete argument.
There is no way that they can get around this one.

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Sam460ex : Radeon Rx550 Single slot Video Card : SIL3112 SATA card

@SvenHarvey

I agree 100%. Sony approaching AInc for OS4 on PS3 being one of the most "too good to be true" things... or not?!