@jtsiren

Quote:

I'll actually up it one notch. I promise you guys - not announce, I really promise - if ACK/Amiga delivers the hardware, available and shipping by end of Summer 2007, say by September 15th, I will buy one of the $489 units just to acknowledge they made it this time. I think this is only fair given all the discussion here.

And suppose that Amiga Inc announces that the machines are ready for production now, they just want to gauge how many to make, would prospective customers please show their intentions by paying US$500 up front.

Would your promise extend to pre-purchase?



edit - added smiley as people are taking the question too seriously.

Last edited by tonyw on 28-Jun-2007 at 01:48 PM.

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Hyperion Support Forum: http://forum.hyperion-entertainment.biz/index.php

@tonyw

Quote:

tonyw wrote: @jtsiren Quote: I'll actually up it one notch. I promise you guys - not announce, I really promise - if ACK/Amiga delivers the hardware, available and shipping by end of Summer 2007, say by September 15th, I will buy one of the $489 units just to acknowledge they made it this time. I think this is only fair given all the discussion here. And suppose that Amiga Inc announces that the machines are ready for production now, they just want to gauge how many to make, would prospective customers please show their intentions by paying US$500 up front. Would your promise extend to pre-purchase?

Since I said ditto to what jtsiren said I'll answer too.

Full purchase price, full, entire, "to gauge interest"? Thats extreme. If they want to go that extreme how about this, like Kent wants with Amiga to have it in escrow. I'd give my $500 to a neutral party to hold, one that could be confirmed by Amigaworld, probably Amigaworld itself if it were willing.

Regardless, Amiga already said they will be ordering over 1000 a shot anyway and that they are coming anyway. So the point you make is moot IMHO. We will have at least 1001 new Amigas according to them, per model. So 2002 new Amigas, minimum.

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 28-Jun-2007 at 01:59 AM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 28-Jun-2007 at 01:53 AM.

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@fairlanefastback

Quote:

Forgive me then, I honestly ask, what you are advocating to get through to ACK then that we are not doing? Who can we call upon "whose regard (ACK) realises (it) needs" that can act on our behalf then (using your example)?

I have already indicated that we have to deal with Amiga Inc. however unsatisfactory that has proved in the past. I don't even know what they are really up to but this much is true. Amiga Inc licences the hardware, Amiga Inc has done a deal with Ack. Amiga Inc has indicated that they will buy the hardware from Ack and distribute through the dealers. So who is calling the tune? That is who has made this hardware scene. That is who is trying to gather all the players in the one hand.

Noel

@sundown

Quote:

Life has taught me that friendly communications will get me more info then hostile communications.

Very simple isn't it? I've appreciated your posts.

Noel

@NoelFuller

Quote:

NoelFuller wrote: @fairlanefastback Quote: Forgive me then, I honestly ask, what you are advocating to get through to ACK then that we are not doing? Who can we call upon "whose regard (ACK) realises (it) needs" that can act on our behalf then (using your example)? I have already indicated that we have to deal with Amiga Inc. however unsatisfactory that has proved in the past. I don't even know what they are really up to but this much is true. Amiga Inc licences the hardware, Amiga Inc has done a deal with Ack. Amiga Inc has indicated that they will buy the hardware from Ack and distribute through the dealers. So who is calling the tune? That is who has made this hardware scene. That is who is trying to gather all the players in the one hand. Noel

Amiga has made no such public statement that they are doing so. And the one public statement they have made in regard to the issue is entirely in direct contradiction to the message that you refer to that was not for public consumption. Do we believe Bill in example 1 or example 2?? Should I conversely declare the public one correct as it is later, and public? So it is far from definitive that all of us should come to the same conclusion. And of the two entities making further public statements that they are making the hardware beyond the press releases is ACK. The one talking about its capabilities beyond any Apple PowerPC ever made is ACK (in regard to the high spec machine). Things some of us ask for now, like a renewed call for proof of PowerVixxen again, all ACK related. Developer board talk, timing and quantity wise, ACK. Info on how the box will be packaged, ACK. Warranty line of thought at this time, ACK. And even if Amiga is determined in one's mind to be more "calling the shots" then I should never inquire about anything with the underling in the relationship? Even if it directly handles the tasks for which I am interested in inquiring about and it is the one making the most public statements?

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 28-Jun-2007 at 03:05 AM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 28-Jun-2007 at 03:01 AM.

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EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

@fairlanefastback

I can say no more without repeating myself. Nor do I care to get into an endless round of self-justification.

Noel

@NoelFuller

Quote:

Very simple isn't it? I've appreciated your posts.

Thanks, I've enjoyed yours as well.

Adam was in irc today, someone asked him how the boards were progressing & if there was a warehouse full ready to go on sale. He answered fine for the first part & he wished for the second part.

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@tonyw

Quote:

And suppose that Amiga Inc announces that the machines are ready for production now, they just want to gauge how many to make, would prospective customers please show their intentions by paying US$500 up front.

For what its worth, ack said he would never ask for money up front & I doubt AI would either. But I think you know that.

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Food for thought.

AI made a joint announcement with ACK. Is it possible that ACK has a license to make the hardware? It would be a benifit to AI to make hardware available for the community while this court case goes on.

Court strategy? If AI make hardware officially available then what? Catch 22 . . .

Does Hyperion refuse to sell OS 4 with it?

If AI.D is not the rightful owner, Hyperion would have to decline releasing the OS with this hardware.

If Hyperion does release the OS with the hardware, well, there goes the argument that AI.D isn't the rightful owner.

If Hyperion refuse's to sell the OS with the machine, and AI proves they are the rightful owner as this case goes forward, then there will be severe damages that AI.D can claim . . . . Thump


Just a thought . . .

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@tonyw

Quote:

And suppose that Amiga Inc announces that the machines are ready for production now, they just want to gauge how many to make, would prospective customers please show their intentions by paying US$500 up front. Would your promise extend to pre-purchase?

Considering the Party Pack and Club Amiga coupon fiascos, I would not be interested in making any sort of pre-purchase with Amiga Inc. (or ACK due to their own history). This is not because I'd have a hard time committing to the buy (I have already publicly committed to it on page 18 of this thread), I feel in light of the business history of Amiga Inc. that there would be a real risk of me never seeing that money again - and no product. I feel this is a reasonable common-sense approach.

So, no my promise does not extend to a pre-purchase. As said on page 18, if the product is shipping for general audience to buy by September 15th (I think a more than fair date given the announcement was "summer 2007") with reasonably as-specced and as-priced in the announcement, I will order one.

I do not have a history of breaking these kinds of promises, my word is good and I have a reputation here in the community to maintain. If it comes in time, I will buy.

OTOH, I doubt the promise of one order will change any estimates Amiga Inc. makes - they said they'd order them in the thousands from the manufacturer.

@wolfe

Quote:

Food for thought.

quite

Noel

@wolfe

You forgot os5, there is no proof that it exists & at the same time, no proof that is doesn't exist. I have my doubts that it's real, but ack said his systems would ship with os5 if os4 wasn't available. I would expect more delays if that scenario panned out.

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@sundown

Quote:

I have my doubts that it's real, but ack said his systems would ship with os5 if os4 wasn't available.

Got a link for that statement?

@sundown

Quote:

sundown wrote: but ack said his systems would ship with os5 if os4 wasn't available.

OMG, did he said that!?! ACK talked about OS5 shipping with his boards? Has he actually seen it? Does it exist? So let me get this straight we are gonna get an OS that nobody knows if it really exists with a machine that we haven’t even seen in pictures! ffs

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@hatschi

No link, it came up in irc & I can't tell if ack was serious or not, so take it with a grain of salt. I don't consider comments in irc as official statements.

May 28, 07
[09:32:06] (sundown) ackcontrols: sorry if this has been asked already, but are you on hold to sell systems with os4 until the court case is settled?
[09:33:30] (ackcontrols) sundown: If the court case isn't resolved by the time the systems are ready.....it will be OS5 on the machines.

Last edited by sundown on 28-Jun-2007 at 09:25 AM.

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@sundown who said Quote:

Answer me this, at what point does criticism aimed at you on a daily basis become beatings, in your opinion?

That's the wrong question! The question you should be asking is why ACK would never ever show any real proof of his (past) projects, despite all the daily demands? Don't you find that strange?

The problem with your question is that it assumes ACK is intrinsically truthful & honest, while potential customers repeatedly asking him questions is intrinsically bad. That doesn't seem right to me.

Quote:

I can't tell if ack was serious or not

Then ACK really needs to learn to use smileys in IRC, to avoid any further misunderstandings. You'd thought he would be keen to avoid any more of those...


@fairlanefastback who said Quote:

Now many of us haven't had kid gloves on, but there is a reason for that I suspect, we are past that phase, too many unfufilled promises.

That's definitely how I feel. I started off believing in ACK, then delays & failed promises, then I find out he has failed to deliver on previous promises. As I got less sure of ACK, I was more demanding for SOME proof, ANY proof that he was legit. The infamous failure to show promised pictures (now 1 year ago) was the last straw for me, and apparently for ACK too. I came to the conclusion that he probably had no proof to show, and I don't think you can blame me for coming to that conclusion. Even though I hope I am wrong about ACK.

Last edited by ChrisH on 28-Jun-2007 at 10:01 AM.

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@sundown

Quote:

it came up in irc & I can't tell if ack was serious or not, so take it with a grain of salt.

Yes. A month earlier he had made an emotive remark about using AROS after being needled by OS4 developers and getting kicked off by the robot for language. He really thinks only in terms of OS4. Some sigificant things were said at that time about hardware holdups re OS4 but when asked for his consent to publish the remarks he refused.

Noel

I guess I should add on another point raised earlier that Ack said, in answer to a question, that ordering of the machines would be through Amiga Inc, whether on-line or through dealers. Dispatch would probably be from Ack.

Noel

Last edited by NoelFuller on 28-Jun-2007 at 10:37 AM.
Last edited by NoelFuller on 28-Jun-2007 at 10:37 AM.

@NoelFuller

Quote:

I guess I should add on another point raised earlier that Ack said, in answer to a question, that ordering of the machines would be through Amiga Inc, whether on-line or through dealers. Dispatch would probably be from Ack.

If Amiga Inc. is the party selling them directly I may choose to wait a while after release (again, assuming released in time) before ordering mine to see if they really ship them. With a reputable dealer (like Vesalia) I would be inclined to act more promptly. However, this possible delay won't affect my promise - if Amiga Inc. has been shipping these things to general public by September 15th, I will order the machine even if I may wait a little while to see that people are actually getting them before sending my money to them.

I will also amend my promise to include OS5 - it doesn't matter if the machine ships with OS4, OS5 or Linux, I will accept any of these. Actually, it would be very interesting to see what this OS5 is. Any guesses? Assuming for a minute (no matter how far-fetched it may seem) that OS5 exists, who do you think Amiga Inc. got to work on it? Perhaps some Amiga community developers have been retained to secretly work on an Exec SG replacement?

@jtsiren

Quote:

I will order the machine even if I may wait a little while to see that people are actually getting them before sending my money to them.

It does not matter when you place an order as long as you don't part with any money before availability is assured.

Quote:

Assuming for a minute (no matter how far-fetched it may seem) that OS5 exists, who do you think Amiga Inc. got to work on it? Perhaps some Amiga community developers have been retained to secretly work on an Exec SG replacement?

No idea but if it is being done I and others have wondered if a certain poster in the thread on Amiga Inc versus Hyperion knows someone who is working on OS5.

Noel