@fairlanefastback

Quote:

fairlanefastback wrote: @samface Quote: The thing was that he portrayed the situation as noone had come forward and confirmed it's existence, which you did. He was very aware of this, yet made no mention of it. Dude I've tried to discuss this with you nicely. You want to keep accusing me of something regardless. The person involved even understands what I said, what more can you want?

He explained that he undertands why you do not trust him and that he is not offended. As I tried to explain in my reply to him, it was about how you failed to mentioned that someone did come forward and confirm it's existence rather than just being about you not trusting him.

Quote:

Character assasination appears to be your game, or your insatiable desire to feel as if you've "won". Keep re-reading my posts until you get it, or if you don't, well sorry. You have a longstanding reputation in this regard, to the point you've even been satirized: http://tinyurl.com/yrxr4g

Eeeuhm...

Ok, first of all, I've never argued anything but your arguments as stated here, not your character nor brought up anything unrelated from your past to discredit you as a person.

Secondly, aren't you doing the very thing here as you are accusing me of?

And BTW, you do realize WrongPlanet is a humour site we're you're probably *never* going to find anything factually correct at all, right? That's not a very good source of information to judge someone's character, now is it?

Last edited by samface on 07-Feb-2008 at 01:11 AM.
Last edited by samface on 07-Feb-2008 at 01:11 AM.

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Sammy Nordström, A.K.A. "Samface"

MINDRELEASE.net - The Non-Commercial Network of Digital Arts.

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@samface

Quote:

You asked "why another java", I responded by trying to explain not just why AA was far more than any other Java-iike solution but also the vast differences in various virtualization technologies and how it has become "the next big thing(TM)" in the industry.

BTW, Samface, you *do* realise that Hypervisors and related Virtualisation ("the next big thing") do *not* provide CPU independence, right? That the stuff running on the virtualised hardware is the same code that *could* be running directly on the hardware?

Thus, no PPC Hypervisor will ever make it run the same code as an ARM Hypervisor. That's what byte code runtime environments are for, which is exactly what AA1 was.


The idea of creating something completely different, and calling it "AA2" would require a level of stupidity I am reluctant to attribute even to AI...

@samface

Thats interesting because I've already explained, in great detail, several times to you but you refuse to stop repeating your same attack on me. It appears to be an attempt to make me look like a liar with your accusations that I didn't expect you to have read some other thread with a specific intention to decieve. I broke down my statements in quite extreme detail to try to show you why there was no contridiction. And yet you still are pursuing this for no reason that I can see but some kind of spite.

I've judged your character based on what I have seen myself. I obviously know its a humour site as I mentioned the satirization. As with most comical satirization its funny because its scarily something I (and apparently the author) could envision you nearly doing in real life.

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 07-Feb-2008 at 01:31 AM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 07-Feb-2008 at 01:25 AM.

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@umisef

You're right. But then, there is nothing preventing you from adding CPU independance to a Hypervisor, now is it? So, saying that something is "Hypervisor-like" is not neccessarily the same thing as saying that it does not have CPU independance, right?

In any case, I never meant to say that AA1/AA2 was a Hypervisor by definition, just more comparable to a Hypervisor than, let's say, Java.

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@GregS

Quote:

JAVA is appealing when doing simple things, and big apps can be made and coaxed on fast machines to run at a reasonable speed -- but maintaining the code!! Making substantial improvements etc that becomes a major headache (not my opinion, I do not have the experience or knowledge in programming to form a judgement).

Only if the design isn't good in the first place.

Quote:

I am told, and theoretically I can see thde problem -- its is the OOPs approach that causes most of the problems, doing things simply is just a bit of an allusion, behind it there is a lot of needless bulk.

The OOP approach is not the root of any of the above evils. Bulky, bloated implementation, needlessly complicated is.

This however is a subject for a completely new thread, I think. I can start one if anyone's interested.

_________________

@fairlanefastback

Quote:

fairlanefastback wrote: @samface Thats interesting because I've already explained, in great detail, several times to you but you refuse to stop repeating your same attack on me.

In what way have I "attacked" you?

Quote:

It appears to be an attempt to make me look like a liar with your accusations that I didn't expect you to have read some other thread with a specific intention to decieve.

Wait a minute. Nice try but don't turn this around. What you are trying to portray as an "attack" on you is actually a response to your attempt to discredit me, remember? In contrast with your own previous claims about what the AA is, you wanted to make it look like we know *nothing* about AA2 as an attempt to discredit my argument that the AA is not just another Java-like solution. Excuse me for standing up for myself.

Quote:

I broke down my statement in quite extreme detail to try to show you why there was no contridiction. And yet you still are pursuing this for no reason that I can see but some kind of spite.

No contradiction? So, in exactly what post did you break down your argument that the AA would be just another Java-like solution and make it clear how that does not contradict your argument that we can't make any claims about what the AA is like since we don't even know if it exists?

And please explain why character assasination such as your link to WrongPlanet's condescending jokes about me would be a reason for me to simply let it go. What I see is someone who keeps feeding me with reasons to go out of line, which is futile, because if you know me, you'll know that I won't. I just get more annoying with my stubborn "nit picking" (otherwise known as being right).

Quote:

I've judged your character based on what I have seen myself. I obviously know its a humour site as I mentioned the satirization. As with most satirization its funny because its scarily something I (and apparently the author) could envision you doing in real life.

Again, I cannot really emphasize enough the fact that I never said anything unrelated to the argument about your character, much less dugg up links to sites that makes fun of you. You did that to me while accusing me of character assasination. I think that speaks for itself.

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@samface

Quote:

is actually a response to your attempt to discredit me, remember? In contrast with your own previous claims about what the AA is, you wanted to make it look like we know *nothing* about AA2 as an attempt to discredit my argument that the AA is not just another Java-like solution.

This is part of your problem Sammy. When people don't agree with your arguments you take it personally and think they are trying to discredit you as a person. I spoke pretty plainly about the reason I did not agree with your argument in regard to AA2. If you view that as an "attempt to discredit" you thats your problem, because its not the case.

Quote:

I just get more annoying with my stubborn "nit picking" (otherwise known as being right).

Well I suppose its good you at least know of your ability to be annoying. Though I'm unsure why that dosen't motivate you to change. People who see the world in only black and white and no shades of grey are usually the scarey types. Your "otherwise known as being right" nonsense is an example of that. It might be worthwhile for you to wonder why someone else in this thread voiced an opinion that you tend to try to portray your opinions as fact.

Quote:

I think that speaks for itself.

Great, maybe you'll stop going on about this then.

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 07-Feb-2008 at 02:12 AM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 07-Feb-2008 at 02:09 AM.

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@fairlanefastback

Quote:

fairlanefastback wrote: @samface Quote: is actually a response to your attempt to discredit me, remember? In contrast with your own previous claims about what the AA is, you wanted to make it look like we know *nothing* about AA2 as an attempt to discredit my argument that the AA is not just another Java-like solution. This is part of your problem Sammy. When people don't agree with your arguments you take it personally and think they are trying to discredit you as a person. I spoke pretty plainly about the reason I did not agree with your argument in regard to AA2. If you view that as an "attempt to discredit" you thats your problem, because its not the case.

Amazing. Simply amazing. You just keep giving me arguments applicable right back at you. Again, I cannot stress enough the fact that you took the discussion to a personal level and performed a regular character assasination of me.

Furthermore, to say that you made an attempt to discredit me is not to say that I took it personally. However, when you post a link to an article on WrongPlanet where they make fun of me using completely fictional quotes and complement it with saying that you could envision me saying it in real life, it's kind of hard to NOT take it personally.

Quote:

Quote: I just get more annoying with my stubborn "nit picking" (otherwise known as being right). Well I suppose its good you at least know of your ability to be annoying. Though I'm unsure why that dosen't motivate you to change. People who see the world in only black and white and no shades of grey are usually the scarey types. Your "otherwise known as being right" nonsense is an example of that. It might be worthwhile for you to wonder why someone else in this thread voiced an opinion that you tend to try to portray your opinions as fact.

I pointed out the flaw in claiming that I'm portraying my personal beliefs as fact as a response to my statement where I clearly wrote "it seems". Furthermore, the "everybody else also thinks" argument is a fallacy as well.

As for the rest of your attempt to describe my character, when are you going to realize that character assasination isn't going to make AA more like Java or any other of your claims in this thread more right?

Quote:

Quote: I think that speaks for itself. Great, maybe you'll stop going on about this then.

I will keep going for as long as you post fallacies and false claims. You deserve atleast as much for your personal attacks on me.

Last edited by samface on 07-Feb-2008 at 03:12 AM.
Last edited by samface on 07-Feb-2008 at 03:11 AM.

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@samface

Well maybe someday you'll change enough for the humor in that Wrongplanet spoof from 2004 to not be so damn funny (in a sad way IMHO) anymore. Until then, like I said, its a sign of your reputation from before I was on the scene, but one I have experienced in the past myself, right on this board, and still continue to see today. It is what it is.

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 07-Feb-2008 at 03:59 AM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 07-Feb-2008 at 03:58 AM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 07-Feb-2008 at 03:58 AM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 07-Feb-2008 at 03:57 AM.

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@fairlanefastback

Quote:

fairlanefastback wrote: @samface Well maybe someday you'll change enough for the humor in that Wrongplanet spoof from 2004 to not be so damn funny (in a sad way IMHO) anymore. Until then, like I said, its a sign of your reputation from before I was on the scene, but one I have experienced in the past myself, right on this board, and still continue to see today. It is what it is.

Oh, I see. You're right, I was wrong all along, the AmigaAnywhere2 is just another Java-like solution. We know this while at the same time not knowing if the AA2 exists or not. And yes, Amiga Inc. keep bringing up the Java comparison, not some reporters or people in forums. It all makes sense know...

Now THAT, my friend, is humour to me. You just will not let go of discussing me and try to put me down, as if it would make you "win" the debate. Making fun of stupidity beats making fun of someone for nit-picking and being perseverant at any time. Thank you for the entertainment and good night.

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@samface

If you want to make fun of me for my supposed "stupidity" and twist things from what I actually said to what you are writing here now well have fun!

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@samface

Quote:

samface wrote: @fairlanefastback ... Again, imagine not needing an OS at all anymore.

I'm afraid my imagination isn't developed good enough for that...

Quote:

samface wrote: Just buy any hardware you like, completely disregard anything under the hood

Nahhhh - that would mean to drop my hobby - I'm interested in technical details.

How can I say that I like a hardware or not, if I refuse to look "under the hood"?
Just from looking at it "from the outside"?

Quote:

samface wrote: except for performance vs price issues. ...

If you always just look at the price, you'll most likely end up buying all your goods from China or other low-wage countries, what in turn destroys the jobs in your own country and in the end leads to more unemployment and a weaker national economy there.

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@samface

F*cking laugh my as@ off! People arguing about a product that doesn't even exist!

I mean, have you guys done a google search lately?? The most mundane of searches come up with 22,000,000+ results these days.......... but you know how many screen shots of AA2 exists on the ENTIRE internet?? 0

HA HA HA!!!!!!

(yeah I know that dude "claims" he's had it for a long time, B.S. do you have any idea how many people from just Amigaworld and Amiga.org have faxed in forms to be Developers and get this "free" AA2?? A LOT...... and again, guess how many people have seen the free AA2 show up in the Amiga.com shopping cart??? 0 )

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@samface @fairlanefastback

Guys, could you please count number of your nonsense messages you each post to this thread, filling it with crap? This is full of "I said this", "No - you said that" ego flames.

Each of you has the same chance - just go and register yourself as a developer, and soon enough you might now, what actually AA2 is, or if there is any at all.

As for AInc., they simpla take strange aproach. So many secrets - why? If they have some SDK (and surely it will not be so groundbreaking to cover it with so many secrets), why just they don't disclose plublicly its architecture? With REBOL community we are preparing this year to publish R3, and one of our main cares will be to properly explain to developer's community, what it is good for, and how to use it. Why to hide anything?

@-pekr-

Quote:

With REBOL community we are preparing this year to publish R3, and one of our main cares will be to properly explain to developer's community, what it is good for, and how to use it. Why to hide anything?

Exactly. I mean, it's common sense. It's frickin' SDK. If they want to make money they NEED people to use it. They need to be spending money "getting" the information out, not hidding everything. How can anyone make a program for them to sell if they don't let anyone have the SDK or at the least provide forums and discusion and help on using it, let alone A SIMPLE SCREEN SHOT?? (God forbid a REAL video demonstration)

It's just another joke guys. Come on, let's all pretend we are going to spend $10,000,000.00 naming some building in some small city that none us has ever heard of before.

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@samface

Quote:

You're right. But then, there is nothing preventing you from adding CPU independance to a Hypervisor, now is it? So, saying that something is "Hypervisor-like" is not neccessarily the same thing as saying that it does not have CPU independance, right? In any case, I never meant to say that AA1/AA2 was a Hypervisor by definition, just more comparable to a Hypervisor than, let's say, Java.

It is the other way around. AA1 is more comparable to Java because they both sit on top of the OS layer, both provide API + CPU independence and both are meant as application runtimes. Hypervisor on the other hand, and to the best of my knowledge, is exactly the opposite because it is a layer below the OS, it does not provide CPU independence and it is not meant to run applications rather operating systems.

@AmigaHeretic

Quote:

Exactly. I mean, it's common sense. It's frickin' SDK. If they want to make money they NEED people to use it. They need to be spending money "getting" the information out, not hidding everything. How can anyone make a program for them to sell if they don't let anyone have the SDK or at the least provide forums and discusion and help on using it, let alone A SIMPLE SCREEN SHOT?? (God forbid a REAL video demonstration)

The refreshingly sober new FAQ section about AA2 may indicate that they are about to be a little more pragmatic about their products in the future. Let's hope so.

@dimitros

And what about something like:

http://www.vmware.com/products/ace/
http://www.vmware.com/files/pdf/ace_datasheet.pdf

... wouldn't such technology allow to provide you with an abstracted API upon host OS? I think it could. You then can pack it into final executables, which fits the mhauber's claim, that you don't need any VM to install a priori. Of course, then you would have to have some small OS upon the ACE basic layer, running your SDK. So, my impression is:

host OS --> vmWare ACE like product --> your OS --> your API --> your App ...

if it is something like that, it is quite a bit of an overhead

@ghauber

Quote:

I see no one discounting my contributions here... Looking for more independent confirmation in order to build confidence, yes, but no discounting that I noticed. It's flattering and all that you and others feel the need to defend me, but honestly, I think you're fighting a phantom. What fairlanefastback is saying is quite legitimate.

The Developer Projects Forum here on AW is always available to you and Bill should you ever choose to make use of it.
It is "strictly" moderated, which means there would be a stress on content vs the petty arguments I clearly see in this thread.

http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=21443&forum=42&10

#6

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@fairlanefastback

Quote:

fairlanefastback wrote: @samface If you want to make fun of me for my supposed "stupidity" and twist things from what I actually said to what you are writing here now well have fun!

Yep, it's all "supposed" and yes, that you claimed that AA2 was just another Java-like solution while at the same time pointing out to me how we couldn't possible know what AA2 is like since we don't know if it even exists is just me "twisting" the truth. And of course I'm making fun of you, how else would I "win" debate, by using objective reasoning?

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Sammy Nordström, A.K.A. "Samface"

MINDRELEASE.net - The Non-Commercial Network of Digital Arts.

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