@All

From amiga.org post:

"Also, does the FPGA have to be reprogrammed every time you boot, or just the first time? How long does the programming process take?

And can you "store" its programming somehow (like you would do with a flash memory for instance) or is it just temporary until you switch it off?"

Does anyone know about this?

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@TheDaddy

You can find the answer here:

http://home.hetnet.nl/~weeren001/

Thanks Hans i did'nt notice that

@DualCrew

I am confused, I don't understand what this means:

"Also, does the FPGA have to be reprogrammed every time you boot, or just the first time? How long does the programming process take?"

The FPGA doesn't need to be reprogrammed every ime you boot or does it?

and also:

"And can you "store" its programming somehow (like you would do with a flash memory for instance) or is it just temporary until you switch it off?"

Is this person confused or confusing?

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@TheDaddy

Quote:

TheDaddy wrote: @All From amiga.org post: "Also, does the FPGA have to be reprogrammed every time you boot, or just the first time? How long does the programming process take? And can you "store" its programming somehow (like you would do with a flash memory for instance) or is it just temporary until you switch it off?" Does anyone know about this?

The FPGA only needs to be programmed the first time you switch the device on. It's configuration bits are erased on power-down.

On power-on, you have to wait for the FPGA to program and for the ROMs to be loaded. Now push Ctrl+Amiga+Amiga (or the MiniMig equivalent). Do you have to wait for that again? Or does the insert disk icon come up almost immediately?

Hans


Hans

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@Hans

There are youtube videos of a minimig booting, and it is pretty rapid. It appears the reset is automatic once the FPGA is configured and the kick.rom loaded.

The one problem I see at the moment is with the Fat16 FS used, as the code for that as best I could see, resides on the PIC (and not the FPGA). From what I have read, to reflash the PIC you need separate equipment as well as a PIC programmer (please correct me if I misunderstood this part). So to change that for FAT32 handling could be problematic. The only way around this that I have seen is if the PIC had the
TinyBootLoader installed on it, which allows you to reprogram the PIC via a PC serial port.

Also from reading a review in Total Amiga with Jens Schoenfeld on the Clone-A, he says that Dennis based his approach in part in how UAE handles blitter functions, and so would not be as accurate as their logic probing approach. But as stated, the benefit of the FPGA is that it can be updated easily with a new replacement piece of code, so as software features are fixed and updated, the MiniMig owners will be able to update their firmware accordingly.

Last edited by _Steve_ on 01-Mar-2008 at 02:22 PM.

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@Hans

>>The FPGA only needs to be programmed the first time you switch the device on. It's configuration bits are erased on power-down.

That's what I thought as well, because everytime I switch my Minimig ON it just loads the KICK file and it's up and running, from the comments on amiga.org which I pastes befre I thought the guy meant it had to be re-programmed manually everytime which confused me big style!


>>On power-on, you have to wait for the FPGA to program and for the ROMs to be loaded. Now push Ctrl+Amiga+Amiga (or the MiniMig equivalent). Do you have to wait for that again? Or does the insert disk icon come up almost immediately?

On power on, it loads the KICK and displays all the fancy colours (like decrunching)then when you do a CTRL+A+A reset it just resets like a normal A500 and back to the request for the 1.3 diskette(hand and diskette). There is no waiting involved, it resets like a normal Amiga, but the cold boot (off then on at the mains) gives the FPGA programming and reading of KICK. I hope it's clear. The behaviour is similar to any other Amiga.

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@_Steve_

I got asked this question on a forum:

"Has Minimig UAE built in or is it a hardware based?"

To which I answered, no it's a mini Amiga (all hardware) no software emulation.

Can you confirm this?

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@_Steve_

Quote:

_Steve_ wrote: @Hans Also from reading a review in Total Amiga with Jens Schoenfeld on the Clone-A, he says that Dennis based his approach in part in how UAE handles blitter functions, and so would not be as accurate as their logic probing approach. But as stated, the benefit of the FPGA is that it can be updated easily with a new replacement piece of code, so as software features are fixed and updated, the MiniMig owners will be able to update their firmware accordingly.

I wish that he hadn't said that because there isn't a single line of UAE code in the MiniMig. How could there be? It's a hardware implementation, not a software emulator. Nevertheless, a number of people have got the wrong idea, and think that it's derived from UAE. Note that there's probably nothing technically wrong with Jens' statement, but people are getting the wrong idea.

Dennis' approach is based mostly on the hardware documentation; partially based on observed behaviour; and occasionally, he did (according to him) have a look at UAE code when something particularly difficult came up. Dennis' approach was to replicate observed behaviour; timings and internal signals may differ from the original A500.

Clone-A is based on the hardware documentation too, but he's gone so far as to analyse the signals (including timing) between chips. Thus each "chip" responds to external signals the same way that the original did. In short, Clone-A took the more complicated route and should result in an implementation that's closer to the original in terms of timing and internal signals, and should also be smaller (in terms of logic-cell count).

Hans

Last edited by Hans on 01-Mar-2008 at 02:55 PM.

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@TheDaddy

Thanks for taking the time to post this. :)

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Sam

@-Sam-

Thank you very much, it means a lot.

I have just quickly updated the site too, a link to the Compatibility List is available and more entries added to the list! More to come once I have finished re-converting the ADFs that failed!

Miniming case coming up too...I would love to say and actually I am going to say in "two weeks time" more or less!

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@TheDaddy

Quote:

This might sound like a pain but consider that loading times are faster than the floppy "clickity-clack" disk drive so it isn't much of a problem.

I don't see it as much of a problem - I completed Monkey Island 2 on a 2 drive A500...

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@TheDaddy

Quote:

I am going to say in "two weeks time" more or less!

The difference is that you have a realistic chance of delivering!

Looking forward to seeing your case. If it is easy to build then I will be getting a Minimig as the lack of a case is the only thing putting me off at the moment.

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Sam

@-Sam-

>>I don't see it as much of a problem - I completed Monkey Island 2 on a 2 drive A500...

I agree. But these days people are used to faster things, which I can understand. I remember going through the horrific process of disk swapping to play Mortal Kombat...THAT was painful! How did we ever managed! It wasn't even that good!

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@-Sam-

>>The difference is that you have a realistic chance of delivering!

LOL!

I hope to finish it sooner...I am trying to keep it simple...at the moment it's all down on paper and I have got the material needed...it's just a matter of finding some spare time.

Originally I was going to use the design I got on my site (the Walker revisited) ut then I hthought it might put people off! LOL!

>>Looking forward to seeing your case. If it is easy to build then I will be getting a Minimig as the lack of a case is the only thing putting me off at the moment.

I have had the minimig exposed to everything, family, friends, colleagues and ESD so the sooner I complete the case the better!

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@Hans

Quote:

I wish that he hadn't said that because there isn't a single line of UAE code in the MiniMig. How could there be? It's a hardware implementation, not a software emulator. Nevertheless, a number of people have got the wrong idea, and think that it's derived from UAE. Note that there's probably nothing technically wrong with Jens' statement, but people are getting the wrong idea.

I agree that the statement could be mis-interpreted as Dennis making essentially a hardware version of UAE, whereas from following his original thread on A.org, it was evident how he achieved the final product from its humble beginnings to the version we see today.

My main issue at the moment was just with the ease (or not) of being able to update the PIC controller code as the issues that most people will face are going to lie in there with regards to how the SD/MMC cards are handled. If the PIC supplied in the build by ACube doesn't contain a bootloader, it will be more problematic for end users to update it without additional hardware. Naturally the FPGA is much simpler to deal with as you just replace the minimig.bin on your SD/MMC card with an updated one, which I am sure will happen as bugs are resolved and corrected.

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@TheDaddy

Quote:

I agree. But these days people are used to faster things, which I can understand. I remember going through the horrific process of disk swapping to play Mortal Kombat...THAT was painful! How did we ever managed! It wasn't even that good!

Ehm, MK1 had no disk swapping after the start of the game on the original version and MK2 had *lots* on the cracked version and moderate swapping (but lots of loading) on the original version.

Anyway, on the FPGA matter, basically, the FPGA gets reprogrammed on power-on by the PIC. You don't ever reprogram it yourself.

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@_Steve_

Making a PIC programmer is pretty easy. I made one years ago out of a handful of parts. Or people can just buy one, it's pretty cheap. Once the bootloader is programmed into the PIC, it should be possible to reprogram via the serial port (or at least according to Dennis' website) without having to remove the chip.

Hans

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@Hans

One small problem with that PIC programmer...

Quote:

Caution: The programmer may not work with low power serial interfaces - i.e. laptop or notebook serial ports. USB to serial cables have also not been proven to work.

My motherboard doesn't have a serial (or parallel for that matter) port either So I'd have to use USB. Having said that, I think my old PC may have though.

@TheDaddy

The minimig is not a hardware based UAE implementation. Dennis worked on the project from the ground up, based on available documentation and observed behaviour (in that if you write a certain set of values to the chips, the output is matched in his implemented hardware).

As Hans said earlier as well, there were instances when Dennis looked at UAE to see how some parts reacted/worked when he could not figure it out, but the codebase itself forms no part of the minimig.

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@Zardoz

>>Ehm, MK1 had no disk swapping after the start of the game on the original version and MK2 had *lots* on the cracked version and moderate swapping (but lots of loading) on the original version.

Maybe I am getting confused with Body Blows...I am going through so many games!

>>Anyway, on the FPGA matter, basically, the FPGA gets reprogrammed on power-on by the PIC. You don't ever reprogram it yourself.

I know now thanks, this has been cleared by someone on amiga.org. Cheers.

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@amigakit

Quote:

We now have Minimig in stock now:

US sales?

Minimig would make a great out of the box FPGA developer system

@Acube

very professional production and packing job....well done!

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