To me Amiga nowdays mainly is the "good" way how a computer system works.

Because of the HW development, the Amiga way can be reached via SW without leading edge HW.

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

My personal view is amiga is a home computer that is roughly the same price as its competition and is vastly superior by design thus making it quite futuristic. A better way. This is what I experienced when I bought my 1st c64 after owning a crapple. This is what I experienced when I bought my 1st amiga upgrading from the c64. None of my windows x86 boxes have ever made me felt like they were 10x better than the last windows x86 box I owned.

Almost all here are bound by a belief that if cbm hadn't handled the job so badly, it would have been a dominant force now. Theres also an argument that if cbm had done well, perhaps my computer would be superior to what it is today. There are scientists saying that computer industry is not developing technology fast enough in the name of profits. Thats obvious to me...its what you get when you have monopolys.

I hate the fact people keep saying the hardware doesnt matter these days because its all x86...well, the hardware DOES matter. Its exactly like saying your brain doesnt matter at all, only what you put into it...Wrong, its a combination of both. I see this 'hardware not mattering' business as pure madness. Of course it matters. you think its gonna matter when quantum computers are the norm? or are they going to be x86 boxes too? We should be demanding something better than the crap we have been dished up in the last decade.

If a new home computer was designed and sold to the masses that was superior in hardware AND OS to the windows x86 boxes on the market? Id call it an amiga whether it was one by brand or not. That to me really sums up what amiga is....

_________________
In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

http://ozconspiracyhouse.myfastforum.org

To me amiga is a girlfriend

Amitlhon, OSXL, Aros ... ?

the Amiga is nothing without its own Hardware!


just my opinion.

_________________
A1-SE G3@733MHz, 1Gb RAM, Radeon9250, Sil0680, SB-Live 5.1 with OS4.0/4.1, Debian-Linux

@resle

Hello,

This post of Yours actually made me register finally :)

To the point.

Quote:

1) "Amiga Hardware, whatever os you run on it" I find difficult to imagine a box running, say, UBUNTU - and calling it an Amiga also if the underlying hardware is an A1 or even a true Amiga 2000-3000-4000. 2) "Any machine running an Amiga Os" Sounds more reasonable, but an OS is still just an OS. Think of Apple: macs are now standard PCs running MacOsX. And then, which one of the many? Aros? MorphOs? AmigaOs 4 because it's a bit more "official" in some way? Then if AmigaOs is ever ported to the X86 platform, any pc out there could be an Amiga, or not? 3) "An Amiga Os on Amiga Hardware" Welcome to a mess of possibilities, with hardware X not properly supporting MorphOs but playing nice with AmigaOs, or AroS refusing to run on hardware Y and possibly installing on X but with a few limitations, etc. etc. I can't get any Amiga feeling from this.

You're forgetting about number four:

4) "Amiga Hardware OR Amiga OS"

That's how it is to me. Since Amiga brand is roughly both hardware and software, having ANY would make it Amiga.

Of course AmigaOS on Classic Amigas one might call "pure". But more recent stuff other than classic exists - and due to continuity of the whole thing - these are Amigas to me, too.

Other OSes like MorphOS and AROS are kind of substitutes... but truly deserve being called AmigaOS-likes. But since the FEEL is more to OS than hardware, those differences may be disturbing for some. It is for me, since I'm faced to the choice now.

To summarize - I want to have a NEW Amiga, as pure as possible. So I'll get OS4.1 on anything that's suitable for it.

BTW Any of Yous could tell me how to insert smilies/saddies?? Sorry for this silly issue here, just PM me about it. Thanx in adv.

_________________
Amiga 1200 + WARP 1260 + AmigaOS 3.2

@DiskDoctor

Quote:

BTW Any of Yous could tell me how to insert smilies/saddies?? Sorry for this silly issue here, just PM me about it. Thanx in adv.

No need to do it in PM. Perhaps others would like to know as well.

post #5 has a nice summary of what we have

#6

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This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

I always said Amiga is a lifestyle and for most they left that lifestyle or at the very least mixed it up badly.

I brought an Amiga in 1986 and Own every type ever made, kitset tower models or whatever don't matter, ya just transplanting other real Amigas inside.

And I've never brought another computer. And up until just 6 months ago (when I moved into the office) Id never used anything else but an Amiga to do any cpu work

I have a brought a SAM and I will buy another AOS specific machine at some date too...

Amiga to me is the AmigaOS but it has to be packaged with a specific machine.

If they do port AmigaOS to the x86 I probably won't get an x86, for as long as they bring out custom hardware that runs around 1g with 2g memory, that'll be enough power for me, even for a business, there is plenty of time these days. And if I need to consider time, I'll buy another Amiga System. Like they did with the A4000s back in the day.

There isn't many of us type of Amiga Users left, if any, perhaps I'm the only one... LOL

_________________
~Yes I am a Kiwi, No, I did not appear as an extra in 'Lord of the Rings'~
1x AmigaOne X5000 2.0GHz 2gM RadeonR9280X AOS4.x
3x AmigaOne X1000 1.8GHz 2gM RadeonHD7970 AOS4.x

@Slayer

AROS/MorphOS/AmigaOS 3.x/AmigaOS 4.x these are Amigas.

@wajdy

Quote:

wajdy wrote: ... Natami has got the spirit of original Amiga Hardware ...

Are you talking us into Natami religion?

_________________
Ciao

Dandy
__________________________________________
If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him.
He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him!
(Albert Einstein)

@eniacfoa

Quote:

My personal view is amiga is a home computer that is roughly the same price as its competition and is vastly superior by design thus making it quite futuristic. A better way. This is what I experienced when I bought my 1st c64 after owning a crapple. This is what I experienced when I bought my 1st amiga upgrading from the c64. None of my windows x86 boxes have ever made me felt like they were 10x better than the last windows x86 box I owned.

Did you miss Direct3D applications?

Normal Windows applications are rendered via GDI /GDI+ middleware which is developed back to the early 1990s. Windows 7 replaces GDI/GDI+ with Direct2D.
Direct2D runs on Direct3D subsystem.

Windows VIsta still uses GDI/GDI+ with normal Windows applications, this image is then textured on top of a D3D surface. At best, Vista’s solution is half baked or half complete.

Quote:

I hate the fact people keep saying the hardware doesnt matter these days because its all x86...well, the hardware DOES matter.

Actually, hardware DOES matter i.e. modern X86 kills PPCs on desktop PC workloads. Modern PC includes a secondary processor called a GPU. Refer to MacOS X 10.5 X86 edition, Intel Core 2 Duo and Geforce 9400 IGP(CUDA 1.1 device) on the latest Apple MacBook.

Anyway, you can test Direct3D performance on Intel Core 2 via Swiftshader 2.01.

Last edited by Hammer on 10-Feb-2009 at 08:04 PM.

_________________
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB
Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

@Dandy

Quote:

Dandy wrote: @wajdy Quote: wajdy wrote: ... Natami has got the spirit of original Amiga Hardware ... Are you talking us into Natami religion?

@Natami supporters.

AMD/ATI's Radeon HDs can do voxels just fine.

Reference
http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/38145/135/
http://www.viddler.com/explore/engadget/videos/27/
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=ALD4NRR_DwY&feature=related

_________________
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB
Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

@Original Question...

To me Amiga is any hardware that is to some extent compatible with the original Amiga 1000.
That includes all the latter Amiga models and some of the following clones (G.E: Walker).
It also includes brand new fanmade clones like Natami and MiniMig.
Even if you run MacOs or Linux on top of that it still remains an Amiga.

AmigaOne, with all the respect, is something completely new that happens to have a built in UAE of sort and an evolution of the old OS (But Pegasos and MorphOS, even BeOs can all fit that definition) which happens to be a very good OS compatible to some extent with the old one.

I could have called AOne a real Amiga if it had some sort of fixed custom HW, because Amiga is the chain ring that, face it, connects Consoles with Personal Computers, it's the lone survivor of the 8bit-16bit era where you could program something directly banging the HW without messing with tons of different HW configurations, messy OS releases and the like. It is a Console with the versatility of a Computer and a Computer with the rocksolid standard configuration of a console.

Amiga is also a philosophy where no pre-written informatic or engineeristic law (or even it's own) have to be taken as a given but just exists as a target to break and surpass. It is the pioneeristic dream, the land of Self Made Programmers, the heaven of the hard core coder whose bombs out a DOOM clone just because ID Software told it could not be done on Amiga.

What in my opinion is an Amiga is something that just wants to reach Mac-PC by battling them on their own ground: External Hardware for GXF and Sound and sacrifices Hardware Banging in name of progress.

_________________
God created Paula so that Allister Brimble and Dave Whittaker could do music

Check my Amiga gameplays (ITA)!

@Britelite

Quote:

They're not based around VGA hardware, they're based around a chunky framebuffer. You do know that most VGA-modes were planar, right? And that the most used chunkymode was actually MCGA, just to be nitpicking a bit.

Okay, point taken. But the chunky modes became the most dominant. That would explain a few things, like why some PC's were good at 2d games.

I remember it being said that PC's weren't good at 2d because they used chunky. Well it looks like that is not really true. Looks like the PC had the best of both worlds. And this is where the Amiga lost out.

Quote:

And how would you do things like filter, ring-modulation and combined waveforms, just to mention a few features of the SID-chip?

Depends on the filter, different to the Amiga filter? For modulation I suppose you could "mod" the waveform. How were the waveforms combined, seperate to a different sound channel?

Quote:

The easiest way was to change the global volume register of the SID that would cause a slight 'pop' in the sound. Although this only works on old SID-chips as it was fixed later on.

Interesting. Possibly the same technique could be used on the Plus/4.

Quote:

Not really, even if the plus/4 is a bit simpler, you'd still have a lot of the same problems as with emulating the C64. At least if you want the emulation to be accurate enough to play anything else than some very basic games from the mid 80's.

Well I think I was concentrating on the audio there. But not hacing to deal with sprites makes it a lot easier.

@Dandy

Quote:

No, IIRC it was a CPU that was 32 Bit internally and 16 bit externally.

My point was the Amiga was considered a 16-bit machine against the 8-bit micros it came after.

Yes the CPU could handle 32-bit data inside but it was part od the 16-bit computer era.

@Foody

Quote:

AROS/MorphOS/AmigaOS 3.x/AmigaOS 4.x these are Amigas.

But there aew no machines there. Wouldn't that list be more like Amiga type OS'es?

Just nitpicking. Seems to be popular in this thread.

@Dandy

Quote:

That's why I think it's even more amazing that now - just 5 months later - OS 4.1 for Pegasos II just has been released.

Yeah. I also wonder, was it already redundant, since MOS already has OS4Emu?

Quote:

Does this now somehow imply what direction the lawsuit will take?

I think this is progressing regardless of the lawsuit. At least it is giving OS4 a new user base and people an opportunity of joinng in. If Amiga win and want to stop that, then along with ACube there is already enough "collaterial damage" to keep the user base goimg for while yet.

They could be upset from missing out on a cut. Buy when you go Windows you don't show a public interest in the Amiga.

Quote:

I mean - back then it was said to be impossible due to the contract with AInc to ever port OS4 to the Pegasos - and now it nevertheless happens - so I'd assume something must have changed in the legal surroundings...But what?

I'd say Hyperion are goimg at it full force while they still can. There is hardware out there and being produced. While they can they are making the best of each oportunity to get it out there. IMHO.

@ErikBauer

Quote:

To me Amiga is any hardware that is to some extent compatible with the original Amiga 1000.That includes all the latter Amiga models and some of the following clones (G.E: Walker).It also includes brand new fanmade clones like Natami and MiniMig.Even if you run MacOs or Linux on top of that it still remains an Amiga.

I agree with you there. And the Natami does have more of a right than recent offerings to be called an Amiga. I'm not sure about the MiniMig, AFAIK it may emulate UAE in hardware.

Quote:

AmigaOne, with all the respect, is something completely new that happens to have a built in UAE of sort and an evolution of the old OS (But Pegasos and MorphOS, even BeOs can all fit that definition) which happens to be a very good OS compatible to some extent with the old one.

Actually the machine doesn't have UAE built into it at all!

But AmigaOS does have the 68k emulators and some basic custom chip emulation. Though it's not like UAE. Mostly CPU based. And the custom chip stuff is via the MMU by detecting a DSI.

Quote:

I could have called AOne a real Amiga if it had some sort of fixed custom HW, because Amiga is the chain ring that, face it, connects Consoles with Personal Computers, it's the lone survivor of the 8bit-16bit era where you could program something directly banging the HW without messing with tons of different HW configurations, messy OS releases and the like. It is a Console with the versatility of a Computer and a Computer with the rocksolid standard configuration of a console.

Absolutely! I have always said, the AmigaOne isn't am Amiga, it's an AmigaOne! Not to mince words but the A1 nor the Pegaos for that matter is no an Amiga. The only thing really in common with the Amiga is a big endian CPU. Look at UBoot, mothing like Kickstart! Infact the A1 is closer to a PC!

It could be said the A1 is more like an A1000 since it loads Kickstart from disk. Well, an A1000 gives you a picture of a disk, without a full ROM! An A1 gives you a load of text. Case closed. Without the "000" on the end the A1 simpel falls short of being a real Amiga.

Quote:

Amiga is also a philosophy where no pre-written informatic or engineeristic law (or even it's own) have to be taken as a given but just exists as a target to break and surpass. It is the pioneeristic dream, the land of Self Made Programmers, the heaven of the hard core coder whose bombs out a DOOM clone just because ID Software told it could not be done on Amiga.

Right, it is a philosophy. And could also be called a spirtuiality transcending across the community to which it belongs.

Quote:

What in my opinion is an Amiga is something that just wants to reach Mac-PC by battling them on their own ground: External Hardware for GXF and Sound and sacrifices Hardware Banging in name of progress.

A seperate entity to the above machines. Though in the modern age what "Amiga " has become seems to be closing that divide. And I think in a way that original spirit is being lost as it does so.

What would be understood if one makes a question "Is it possible to run Linux, pOS or MorphOS on Amiga?"

Call me old fashioned, but Amiga is a computer, Amiga has it's own operating system (AmigaOS/Workbench). One can run Amiga emulation on other computers, which is Amiga HW emulation. On this emulation, one can run software for Amiga. If only AmigaOS is ported for totally different hardware, one needs additional components to emulate missing hardware to run native Amiga software. HAL was quite abstract concept with original Amiga.

Last edited by quenthal on 10-Feb-2009 at 06:29 PM.

@Hammer

Quote:

Hammer wrote: @eniacfoa Quote: My personal view is amiga is a home computer that is roughly the same price as its competition and is vastly superior by design thus making it quite futuristic. A better way. This is what I experienced when I bought my 1st c64 after owning a crapple. This is what I experienced when I bought my 1st amiga upgrading from the c64. None of my windows x86 boxes have ever made me felt like they were 10x better than the last windows x86 box I owned. Did you miss Direct3D applications? Normal Windows applications are rendered via GDI /GDI+ middleware which is developed back to the early 1990s. Windows 7 replaces GDI/GDI+ with Direct2D. Direct2D runs on Direct3D subsystem. Windows VIsta still uses GDI/GDI+ with normal Windows applications, this image is then textured on top of a D3D surface. At best, Vista’s solution is half baked or half complete. Quote: I hate the fact people keep saying the hardware doesnt matter these days because its all x86...well, the hardware DOES matter. Actually, hardware DOES matter i.e. modern X86 kills PPCs on desktop PC workloads. Modern PC includes a secondary processor called a GPU. Refer to MacOS X 10.5 X86 edition, Intel Core 2 Duo and Geforce 9400 IGP(CUDA 1.1 device) on the latest Apple MacBook. Anyway, you can test Direct3D performance on Intel Core 2 via Swiftshader 2.01.

1st up - Whats missing direct3d applications got to do with my point (which you've taken out of context)

2ndly - you agree the hardware does matter, yet you write it like you are arguing with me?? I dont understand what the point is for that comment either.

are you a bot or sumthin lol?

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In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

http://ozconspiracyhouse.myfastforum.org

@quenthal

Quote:

What would be understood if one makes a question "Is it possible to run Linux, pOS or MorphOS on Amiga?"

Yes, A3000UX had Unix. Okay it could run on any Amiga like an A3000 or better. pOS could run on 68k, it ran on my OS4. Linux could run on the PowerPC expansion cards. As does MorphOS.

My point is, all these require a real Amiga as the backbone. so definitely yes to your question! That is understood.