@opi

So well put.

_________________

@hotrod

Quote:

hotrod wrote: @Ruud Because................................................?

... you don't need the shell with MorphOS more than with AmigaOS. That's a quite simple fact.

When I set up MorphOS 2.x on the Pegasos I just inserted the CD (note I even didn't type a boot command in, CD has a higher pri here), CD booted up, I clicked the iWizard icon, made some clicks to specify my language, kbd layout and to which drive the installation should be done. Then files were copied. I rebboted and - voila - there was my fresh installation of MorphOS 2.x. Network was working ootb (it's set to DHCP by default). Screen resolution is automatically detected, no need to adjust it yourself (except you want a different one).
It is all stright forward, intuitive and simple. Installation took about 1/4 hour with no intermediate reboots or such.
In everyday usage I don't need to use the shell at all (but in fact I do, since I really like the shell). Ambient handles all file operations, extracts archives, mounts isos and so on.

Taste may differ, but facts are facts. Taste should always be respected, but facts shouldn't be denied.

_________________
My programs: via.bckrs.de
MorphOS user since V0.4 (2001)

@Zylesea

Well everybody experiences differences. My MorphOS2.1 install did not boot from my cd on start up, or boot up, whatever.

My MorphOS1.4 cd did.

HENCE

Why I stated what I did, and I am sticking to that, as it took a novice like me 3 hours in the end to install MorphOS2.1, due to lack of command knowledge.

Atleast it should come with a fuken manual if it is like this.

Any new user to the community would find it easier to install Amiga OS4.1, AROS even is just as easy.

For fuks sake, even Linux is easy in comparison.

CHeers.

_________________
Courtesy of SAM440Flex & Amiga OS4.1 only
Flex is 800mhz
A1000 with Classic 520 Amiga OS3.2.1
AmiKit 12
MorphOS PowerBook G4 (which can play youtube vids)

https://blitterwolf.blogspot.com

@Gebrochen
What you have, is a classic case of PEBKAC.

_________________
MorphOS, classic Amiga, demoscene, and stuff
"When a bridge is not enough, build a Viaduct!"
"Strip the Amiga community of speculation and we can fit every forum on a 720k floppy" (by resle)

@opi


Quote:

You see, if someone wants to educate you, and you don't get it, it's not 100% educator fault. Maybe you where to stupid to get it? Too lazy? Too ignorant? Read what people write in here: "MorphOS sucks because I can't type 'ls'" "Linux is Windows", "OS X is poorly coded", "Windows has no multitasking", "C is worse than AMOS because I don't want to understand difference between OpenScreen and graphic.library/OpenScreen()", "Troika is real, honestly. You'll see, Panda will rock", "OS5 is done by Amiga, INC in house", "Hyperion should port to X platform, because I think product Y is kawaii, and even if I have no details on technological side of things nor I know #### about licensing I'll fight tooth and nail to push my agenda"

LOL., You made my day. That was a dang good summary of the recent discussions here.
Now I don't need to read up on all old threads.

_________________
AmigaOS or MorphOS on x86 would sell orders of magnitude more than the current,
hardware-intensive solutions. And they'd go faster.-- D.Haynie

@Chain-Q

Hahahahaha, good one dude. That made me laugh.

One thing I could not help but notice was, How you may be biased to begin with perhaps?

As In your signature you only seem to use MorhOS??

ether way, that really made my day, yeah OK, maybe you can knock around a novice user, who has big plans, and heaps of learning left in particular areas, but I am certain you also have done fuk ups in your lifetime that would also make others who have gained knowledge in that area, versus your lack of knowledge laugh.

Like my 152E I would love to have it, but it is so damn rare, it would be like trying to find a needle in a haystack.

Oh well, I know one company that has it, but way tooooooooo dear or expensive.

About $16,000 for only 2 odd litres worth.

Hahaha, thank you for the light amusement though.

Cheers.

_________________
Courtesy of SAM440Flex & Amiga OS4.1 only
Flex is 800mhz
A1000 with Classic 520 Amiga OS3.2.1
AmiKit 12
MorphOS PowerBook G4 (which can play youtube vids)

https://blitterwolf.blogspot.com

@peroxidechicken

Quote:

So well put.

If a little aggressive. Might be just me reading it wrong.

Rude!

_________________
2017 Camaro 2SS

@opi

Why bother banning you, I like your comments. They are truthful and full of experience.

But my experiences with MorphOS left me not liking it.

Surely that is not a crime.

I also never stated that MorphOS should not be used by others, I never stated that in any of my posts either.

As for morons, thats a bit strong, against a guy who has only used an Amiga as an everyday system for 4 months now. ??????????????????

And a guy that has spent the money and took a risk, for all what I knew, I was buying a lemon for 1600 dollars.

OK, so I used to use my farther A1000 when I was young, in 1985, right up to 1995, before not ever touching it again.

So you see, realistically you are being too critical on comments made, they are after all, just comments.

If I wanted to state a fact, I would verbaly write

FACT : 18RG is considered a 2 litre engine, with a yamaha head, running dual carbs, Mikunis, has a yamaha head, but an 18R block, however there were two types of 18R blocks made, one specifically for 18RC and another for 18RG, but one can adapt or place the i8RG twin cam head onto a single cam block.

Generally these motors were placed into RA23's, RA28's, but can also be made to fit other engine bays in later celica's and corollas.

BASICALLY

WE all have aquired knowledge in various areas, and we are all human.

If I am bad for stating my experiences with something, wel that is just rubbish.

They were my experiences, and does not mean that others feel the same way. Nor do they have to make a mockery out of it all.

Anyway, thank you for your courteous postings,

Kind regards

Gebrochen


[Edit: I will ask you only once more to watch your language - Final warning: _Steve_]

Last edited by _Steve_ on 03-Feb-2009 at 08:29 PM.

_________________
Courtesy of SAM440Flex & Amiga OS4.1 only
Flex is 800mhz
A1000 with Classic 520 Amiga OS3.2.1
AmiKit 12
MorphOS PowerBook G4 (which can play youtube vids)

https://blitterwolf.blogspot.com

Quote:

But my experiences with MorphOS left me not liking it. Surely that is not a crime.

Then put real arguments, not stupid ones... I'm pretty sure there are, but you'll have to dig a little, for sure.

If you can't find one serious argument (as it is now), you'll have to wonder why you think so much it's inferior, harder to use/install...

Last edited by Leo on 03-Feb-2009 at 01:21 PM.
Last edited by Leo on 03-Feb-2009 at 01:20 PM.

_________________
http://www.warpdesign.fr/

@Leo + everyone else

OK! This have to stop here. We're talking about one users experience. ONE USER. You can not change his experience, however wrong you think it were. Maybe he did some errors, maybe it was something else. Why there has to be mob of people trying to chase him out of town I do not understand.

Calm down, think your posts through, then click the submit button.

Regards,
Joachim Birging

AmigaWorld.Net staff

_________________
Common sense - So rare it's almost like a super power

@opi @ the rest of the bunch

Quote:

We call it ignorance. "Blinded by love" is very diplomatic way to put it.

Well c'mom , that's getting a bit harsh. Someone uses MorphOS for the first time and that was his inpression.

I also have installed MOS and I did find it complicated. I needed to make a partiton for the boot image and then one for MOS itself. After that it told me there was some partition error despite me checking the instructions which AFAIK I had followed exactly. I got past that and managed to install it. But it did get technical at one point. After which Reminded me of the first time I installed Linux on the A1! And by default the Pegasos had to be told to boot off the HD so I had to work that out in SmartFirmware. Hmmm, that sounds like an oxymoron. Then later the boot countdown was acting non-extistant and hard to break. This became a nightmare when...

Possibly the worst part was when I was trying to set up a screen the on an LCD and the mode didn't work which was stuck on the system. Somehow I managed to find a way to kill the mode and restore the default.

I also have used MOS in the past and compared to a real AmigaOS it wasn't the same and hard to use. Based on AmigaOS but it's not AmigaOS. For one thing I couldn't find a simple text editor. There was no NotePad or EditPad and the Shell didn't even have an Ed! Very poor! Then there are no Preferences. I found there was one app to handle it all. But it didn't make me feel at home.

The windows look nice though. I found out when a program crashes MOS just rips it out and kills it off. Kind of like MacOS but no remains. Where's it go? Perhaps the best thing about MorphOS I can say is that it supports 68k TrapCode exceptions fully so using MonAm for debugging still works!

Last edited by Hypex on 03-Feb-2009 at 02:36 PM.

@zerohero

Don't get me wrong, I like reading Gebrochen's posts here and on other forums. I find his enthusiasm for os4.1 quite endearing. I was just a little puzzled about the whole command line thing.

_________________
"We live, we die, we laugh, we cry"

@Hypex

Quote:

Hypex wrote: ...I also have installed MOS and I did find it complicated. I needed to make a partiton for the boot image and then one for MOS itself.... ...I also have used MOS in the past and compared to a real AmigaOS it wasn't the same and hard to use. Based on AmigaOS but it's not AmigaOS. For one thing I couldn't find a simple text editor. There was no NotePad or EditPad and the Shell didn't even have an Ed! Very poor! Then there are no Preferences. I found there was one app to handle it all. But it didn't make me feel at home....

MorphOS now comes with an editor and even if it didn't came with an edior, there are thousands od editors avaialble at aminet. Even my old Appetizer WB 1.3 Write programm from 1990 does work on MorphOS.

And how do you come to the conclusion there are no prefs???
Left mouse click into ambient: settings
Voilá everything there.

And only because I used OS 3.x b4 I don't know magiaclly what's roadshow *if* I hadn't got that information on the web. Or 3d compositing. Or how to install OS 4.1 on my Sam/A1/pegasos.
And to tell you something for installation: the peg 2 supports sfs, thus no need to set up a dedicated drive for the boot.img. You can put it to your sys partitition (I do so on my Efika). But it is *adviced* to put it ona dedicated drive to avoid messing it up by mistake.
If you have a peg 1 this is a bit different: The OF of the Peg 1 doesn't support sfs, thus it needs a ffs partitition to start up. You may put your entire system on that ffs partitition, but, again, this is not adviced, ffs is slow and unsecure. tehrefor better create a small ffs partition put the boot.img there and install the system on a sfs partition:
The entire "how to" is well documented on www.morphos-team.net and teh pegasosbook. For that purpose (i.e. to explicity document the easy and straight forward way)we worked an that book .

If you install OS4 on teh Peg1 (if it comes out) the installation will be similar. The system cannot be installed on a sfs partition, the kickrom will require a ffs partition. And I guess you don't want to install OS4 on a ffs partition? Therefoer you'll need another sfs partition for the system itself.

And regarding the screenmodes. It is like it was in CGX for years.

But if you want a really seemless transition from 3.9 - go use 3.9.

You're right: MorphOS is not AmigaOS and to cite the Berlin Major Wowereit "und das ist auch gut so!"

Last edited by Zylesea on 03-Feb-2009 at 05:56 PM.
Last edited by Zylesea on 03-Feb-2009 at 05:54 PM.

_________________
My programs: via.bckrs.de
MorphOS user since V0.4 (2001)

@Zylesea

Quote:

And to tell you something for installation: the peg 2 supports sfs, thus no need to set up a dedicated drive for the boot.img. You can put it to your sys partitition (I do so on my Efika). But it is *adviced* to put it ona dedicated drive to avoid messing it up by mistake. If you have a peg 1 this is a bit different: The OF of the Peg 1 doesn't support sfs, thus it needs a ffs partitition to start up. You may put your entire system on that ffs partitition, but, again, this is not adviced, ffs is slow and unsecure. tehrefor better create a small ffs partition put the boot.img there and install the system on a sfs partition: The entire "how to" is well documented on www.morphos-team.net and teh pegasosbook. For that purpose (i.e. to explicity document the easy and straight forward way)we worked an that book .

For fairness it is probably easier to install OS4 for SAM than MorphOS for Pegasos 1. Not everyone can understand difference of FFS and SFS, purpose of boot image partition and so on. He made wrong conclusion that it was MorphOS which was difficult to install but it was just hardware which was difficult to tackle. And I can understand that. I still remember only one OF command: boot

(Edit: oh, I read you were replying to gebrochen. Anyway... Pegasos 1 and MorphOS 1 are far from perfect albeit very nice )

Last edited by itix on 03-Feb-2009 at 07:47 PM.

_________________
Amiga Developer
Amiga 500, Efika, Mac Mini and PowerBook

@Hypex

Quote:

Then there are no Preferences. I found there was one app to handle it all. But it didn't make me feel at home.

I think you are just being silly On my other Amiga (which runs the official AmigaOS) there is only one app to handle it all. It is called Preferences just like it is called Preferences in MorphOS.

_________________
Amiga Developer
Amiga 500, Efika, Mac Mini and PowerBook

@itix

Well there is nothing in the pref folder, which is the, sorry, hte Amiga way, they've but put into 4 options on the pull down menu.

Whether that's a good thing or not, is a bit on subjective side, as if you like the Mac Rip,err insipred Preferances panel.

_________________
Rage quited 29th May 2011

Considering OS4 already runs on the Mac Mini (unofficially, obviously), wouldn't it by pretty easy to implement the missing drivers (Network, USB etc) and release a full version for the huge number of PPC Mac Minis already out there?

Full credit for releasing a version for the Peg 2, but why not the Mac Mini?

_________________
...

@All

Not everyone is at home with typing in different commants on a computer terminal, you'll just have to accept that. In fact, there are more people who are not at home with that kind of thing, and quite frankly, in 2009, people shouldn't have to do that sort of thing to get an OS installed. I mean, back in the early 90's did we have to type in shell commands to get Workbench 3.0 installed on our Amigas? No, it was a user-friendly system, all you had to do is insert the floppy, double-click the installation icon, and it would guide you through the installation.

I think it's perfectly fine for someone to expect that he/she shouldn't have to do any more in 2009 to install a user-friendly OS on a computer. So before you start biting peoples' heads off, keep that in mind. Having said that, I DID have to type in commands to OpenFirmware to get OS4 installed, and I also did have to type commands into UBoot when I first installed OS4 on an AmigaOne a few years back, because it didn't have the environment variables set up so that it would auto-boot the OS4 Install CD (although at least the Hyperion UBoot menu made things easier for a beginner). And I certainly wouldn't be surprised if people would not have the best impressions if they had to start tweaking with such things when they got their machines. This is something to think about for both the OS4 and MorphOS dev team. First impressions do matter, and if we want to attract more people from outside the current Amiga community, improvements have to be made to iron out these nuisances.

It just seems that some people get overly sensetive if they see someone who happens to have a different preference than their favourite OS, and dares to say it in public...

@COBRA
Yeah. If MorphOS fans really wanted to help MorphOS, they would try to find what Gebrochen did wrong (*) (which caused all his problems), and then find a way to prevent other users having the same problem. It could be as easy as better documentation...

(* this assumes he DID do something wrong - but perhaps MorphOS 2.0 has problems with certain hardware/software set-ups that hasn't been noticed/fixed yet? Remember he said MorphOS 1.x booted from CD fine, but 2.0 did not - on his set-up.)

Last edited by ChrisH on 03-Feb-2009 at 09:58 PM.
Last edited by ChrisH on 03-Feb-2009 at 09:57 PM.

_________________
Author of the PortablE programming language.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

@Stephen_Robinson
The Preferences application is an age-old "argument" to state MorphOS is not Am*ga-like enough. But in fact, if you want, you can make many Prefs icons in your Prefs folder, all calling the Preferences applet with one of the Prefs panels as default. So, for separate-prefs lovers: it's possible to do it, it's just not there by default.

(And yes, this is customization, but hey, i've never seen an Am*ga, which wasn't highly customized for the owner's needs and taste...)

(Edit: fix language somewhat)

Last edited by Chain-Q on 03-Feb-2009 at 10:26 PM.

_________________
MorphOS, classic Amiga, demoscene, and stuff
"When a bridge is not enough, build a Viaduct!"
"Strip the Amiga community of speculation and we can fit every forum on a 720k floppy" (by resle)