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WolfToTheMoon 
Re: Nedfield
Posted on 3-Jan-2014 20:09:11
#81 ]
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Joined: 2-Sep-2010
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From: CRO

@CritAnime

C= Holdings.

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number6 
Re: Nedfield
Posted on 3-Jan-2014 22:32:21
#82 ]
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Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 9804
From: In the village

@CritAnime

Quote:
So how did this affect the license that CUSA had? Who supplied the license for their use of the commodore banding.


Here's where written facts might well differ from "the" facts.
I've linked in the past to Asiarim's documents filed with the SEC, which mentioned the CommodoreUSA licensing. And at the start of this whole affair, it was clear the Asiarim (Ben Van Wijhe) was drawn out to respond to Barry after Barry used the Commodore logo early on for just that purpose...discovering the one claiming ownership of the Commodore IP.

However, we also have posts here from Barry that indicate a relationship or at the very least communications with the other side, Commodore Holdings.

There is a phrase "hedging one's bets" that might point to both, but that's something never stated for the record.

What I DO find curious though, is that there is not one "hit" for CommodoreUSA in the case .pdf.
Whereas, in the documents submitted during discovery, both Manomio AND CommodoreUSA were always mentioned in the same vein, if not the same sentence.
Asiarim's stance was that they had not brought fees up to date basically.
Commodore Holdings maintained the licenses for both were null and void.

But unless I missed something, Commodore Holdings never mentioned whether they had their own licensing agreements with both Manomio and CommodoreUSA or whether they intend to attempt a revival of such agreements for their own use.

We'll see.

Added: announcement on Trademark Licensing Agreement from Asiarim to CommodoreUSA LLC

#6

Last edited by number6 on 03-Jan-2014 at 11:12 PM.

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number6 
Re: Nedfield
Posted on 22-Jan-2014 15:35:42
#83 ]
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Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 9804
From: In the village

@thread

Quote:
This is a brand page for the C COMMODORE trademark by C= Holdings B.V. in Breda, , 4818CP. Write a review about a product or service associated with this C COMMODORE trademark. Or, contact the owner C= Holdings B.V. of the C COMMODORE trademark by filing a request to communicate with the Legal Correspondent for licensing, use, and/or questions related to the C COMMODORE trademark.

Status Update! On Tuesday, January 14, 2014, status on the C COMMODORE trademark changed to REGISTERED.

Source
2nd Source

Without question this refers to the same folks mentioned:
http://www.commodorecorp.com/

I think this and other bits gives some credence to the notion of a restart.

#6

Last edited by number6 on 22-Jan-2014 at 04:06 PM.
Last edited by number6 on 22-Jan-2014 at 03:50 PM.

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number6 
Re: Nedfield
Posted on 6-Feb-2014 14:18:43
#84 ]
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Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 9804
From: In the village

@thread

A short summary that appeared recently for those who don't want to wade through the longer summations:

Recent Trial Victory for C=Holdings B.V.

Also, I heard some questions over time about what this meant regarding status of previously branded (Commodore) products from Asiarim. Although this source is a blog, I found it interesting:

falsely claiming continued TM ownership leads to liability

Quote:
the mere fact that the Commodore products Asiarim advertised were once authentic does not mean that they continued to be when the trademark owner, C=Holdings, withdrew its permission.


#6

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number6 
Re: Nedfield
Posted on 11-Mar-2014 13:36:57
#85 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 9804
From: In the village

@thread

Persuant to the link above which states:

Quote:
Plus, the court ordered corrective advertising explaining the court's findings on Asiarim's website, also to be sent to the two licensees/potential licensees named in the case "and any other customers who purchased Commodore-branded computers from or discussed entering into licensing agreements with Asiarim."  Also, the court ordered Asiarim to file a corrective statement with the SEC, and stated that it would refer the matter to the SEC.


Here is the official 8-K corrective statement from Asiarim for SEC:

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1415813/000101968714000593/r8k-021914arm.htm

I don't get anything from Asiarim's former website:

http://www.asiarim.net

As far as compliance with the order to notify both CommodoreUSA and Manomio, as stated in the document and referred to as "the two licensees", I have nothing in print.

#6

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number6 
Re: Nedfield
Posted on 11-Mar-2014 14:33:35
#86 ]
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Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 9804
From: In the village

@thread

For those that don't know the Amiga connection:

http://www.manomio.com/index.php/dotc/

Quote:
Defender of the Crown - Emulated Amiga Version

Brought to you by Cinemaware® in association with Manomio


Title also mentioned by name being distributed by Hyperion on:

http://hyperion-entertainment.biz/

#6

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number6 
Re: Nedfield
Posted on 8-Apr-2014 16:59:40
#87 ]
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Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 9804
From: In the village

@thread

Found a bit about the aftermath of the lawsuit concerning Manomio and Elite Systems.

Manomio relationship with Commodore and Elite

details on action from February, after the lawsuit resolution

Quote:
Also, many of the games which were originally included (or included as in-app purchases) within the iPhone app have been withdrawn and are no longer available - even to people who have paid for them as in-app purchases.


ouch

#6

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number6 
Re: Nedfield
Posted on 26-Apr-2014 14:00:12
#88 ]
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Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 9804
From: In the village

@thread

Apparently the link in post #86 is dead.

Manomio.com now takes me to godaddy.

*shrug*

#6


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number6 
Re: Nedfield
Posted on 11-May-2014 23:22:45
#89 ]
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Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 9804
From: In the village

@thread

While Manomio's website and all social media seem to have ceased February-March, 2014, I found an article from April:

Quote:
The Commodore 64 emulator for the iPhone has disappeared via app store due towards the ability to get up most important interpretor, but Manomio has patched the matter and submitted the update, so hopefully we'll visualize it back online soon.


Source

Hmm..."2014.05.04" yet this could be an older story, but I'll leave the post.

#6

Last edited by number6 on 11-May-2014 at 11:38 PM.

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number6 
Re: Nedfield
Posted on 30-May-2014 18:20:09
#90 ]
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Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 9804
From: In the village

@thread

Apparently 2 more actions have been filed:

April 24, 2014 for "Other Statutory Actions"

and

May 13, 2014 also for "Other Statutory Actions"

#6

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number6 
Re: Nedfield
Posted on 2-Jun-2014 15:54:53
#91 ]
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Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 9804
From: In the village

@number6

Quote:
However, atm, I see Asiarims former website is not allowing access, at least with my browser.

http://www.asiarim.net


Apparently since the website is no longer at that address, the announcement required by the court was posted here:

http://asiarim.info/press.html

So the court order regarding notification has been done through Asiarim, SEC, and notification of the 2 licensees. (earlier links about Manomio bare this out)

Still no idea what the 2 new lawsuits are about. *shrug*

#6

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amigadave 
Re: Nedfield
Posted on 2-Jun-2014 17:19:06
#92 ]
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Joined: 18-Jul-2005
Posts: 1525
From: Lake Shastina, Northern Calif.

@number6

I admire your perseverance in researching these things, because they are boring as can be to me. It is nice to have someone who does not mind sorting all of it out (as much as is possible).

Thanks

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number6 
Re: Nedfield
Posted on 2-Jun-2014 19:08:16
#93 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 9804
From: In the village

@amigadave

Quote:
because they are boring as can be to me.


I can understand that. But even if one is not interested in this history, one has to remember that the former "owners" caused possibly the biggest stir on the Commodore and Amiga websites due to their licensing deals.

Unlike most people who assume the undisputed current owner is likely to do as little as Yeahronimo/Asiarim did in 10 years...
I think it's worth keeping an eye on these folks for not only how their actions might affect Commodore Amiga fans, but also to watch for opportunities in the unlikely event that they arise.

#6

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amigadave 
Re: Nedfield
Posted on 2-Jun-2014 19:58:08
#94 ]
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Joined: 18-Jul-2005
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From: Lake Shastina, Northern Calif.

@number6

You misunderstand my boredom. I am always interested in Amiga & Commodore information, but it would be terribly boring for me to do the kind of research that you have the patience to do.

That is why I thanked you for doing it and providing us with updates.

I might not be as interested in ownership, trademark, and copyright issues as you or some other members here, I do understand the connection and the interest that many people have regarding such issues.

I'll be really interested once anyone with a legal right to any of the trademarks, copyrights, or licensing ownership rights, does something that is actually productive or interesting for the Amiga community. Other than what Hyperion has been able to do over the past several years, none of the others who have some kind of claim to a legal connection to anything Amiga or Commodore related have done anything news worthy, in my opinion of course.

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number6 
Re: Nedfield
Posted on 2-Jun-2014 21:05:59
#95 ]
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Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 9804
From: In the village

@amigadave

Quote:
I'll be really interested once anyone with a legal right to any of the trademarks, copyrights, or licensing ownership rights, does something that is actually productive or interesting for the Amiga community.


This is quite a different world from Commodore Amiga with everything under one roof. Even at that, most people would say that 3rd party drove the innovations of the platform. This obviously came along with support from the parent company.

We obviously do not have such 3rd party innovations today. The term "sustainable market" springs to mind. Some former Amiga companies and personalities still have similar emotional/nostalgic ties like the users do, but as real businesses they have to go where the money is.
In addition to the challenge of income, IP would also play a part in any companies' involvement. Commodore IP has clarity, Amiga IP not.

Oddly the only effort remotely sparking inquiries about opportunities was the effort that caused so much angst here. As it turns out, with the change in Commodore ownership, perhaps it was all for the best that no other companies became entangled.

#6

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number6 
Re: Nedfield
Posted on 17-Aug-2014 13:19:21
#96 ]
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Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 9804
From: In the village

@thread

Scary imo, given the history


Quote:
Meet the excellent services from Asiarim Corporation. Our business is dedicated to becoming one of the leading investment services companies in the industry.


#6

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number6 
Re: Nedfield
Posted on 18-Aug-2014 15:08:11
#97 ]
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Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 9804
From: In the village

@thread

Don't mind me. Just using this thread as a historical notepad of sorts. heh.

Ran into a 2nd Trademark link and I see a difference.

http://www.trademarkia.com/c-commodore-85832898.html

Word Mark: C COMMODORE

whereas:

http://www.trademarkia.com/commodore-73360490.html

Word Mark: COMMODORE

Same group. Same Attorney.



http://drimble.nl/bedrijf/breda/17369940/c-holdings-bv.html

Can anyone confirm this is the same company?

#6

Last edited by number6 on 18-Aug-2014 at 03:38 PM.

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number6 
Re: Nedfield
Posted on 3-Nov-2014 14:59:36
#98 ]
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Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 9804
From: In the village

@thread

Amazingly more paperwork has been filed even after the initial lawsuit was resolved. So, afaik, Commodore (C=Holdings B.V.) is still engaged in THAT plus the 2 newer lawsuits referred to.

But today I thought for those who never read the initial documents, I would post just a few of the exchanges between the judge and the defendents.
Why? I think to dispel the notion that people calling themselves owners and holding like grim death onto IP aren't necessarily skilled in doing that.

Quote:
THE COURT: What are you going to buy from them? Buy the brand from [Ebben and Hoogstrate]. What brand are you referring to?

THE WITNESS: No. This is the Commodore brand. This is the brand I referred to, I guess, but -

THE COURT: Okay. This is dated November 4th of 2011.

THE WITNESS: Yes.

THE COURT: Hadn't you already sold the brand to somebody else?

THE WITNESS: No. We transferred the brand out to Commodore Gaming Limited.

THE COURT: So that's a new trick. You're going to buy the brand from [Ebben and Hoogstrate] after you've already transferred the brand to somebody else. How are you going to do that?

THE WITNESS: No. Cannot.

THE COURT: You can't do that?

THE WITNESS: No, cannot.

THE COURT: So how are you going to buy the brand from [Ebben and Hoogstrate]?

THE WITNESS: I don't know who I - what I wrote here -

THE COURT: Mm-hmm.

THE WITNESS: - but because C=Holdings owned and held the brand rights before November 2nd, before the reverse of the board and the transfer of the brand [to] Commodore Gaming, I guess this is kind of typing, writing, that I have still C=Holdings and the brand as one in my head when I write this.

THE COURT: Even though two days [earlier], according to you, the brand was transferred out? You're under oath. You understand that?

THE WITNESS: Yes, yes.

THE COURT: So you're going to tell me here, to my face, that on November 4th, you're talking about buying the brand, even though you knew full well you had transferred the brand two days before; that's what you're telling me?

THE WITNESS: I don't know what I wrote here -


Another classic exchange:

Quote:
THE COURT: So rather than e-mail you these papers, he brought them with him on a plane from Hong Kong to give to you in Shanghai while he was traveling with his family? That's your testimony?

THE WITNESS: Yes.

THE COURT: Because it was easier to do that than to just hit a button and send you the documents?


You gotta love sarcasm.
I hereby nominate "I don't know what I wrote here" to join the all time Commodore and Amiga book of classic phrases.

Source, in case the .pdf mentioned above seems too daunting to read

#6

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number6 
Re: Nedfield
Posted on 10-Feb-2015 17:49:29
#99 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 9804
From: In the village

@thread

C=Holdings B.V. has filed yet another lawsuit.

C=Holdings B.V. v. GBC International Bank

a bit more detail

#6

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amigadave 
Re: Nedfield
Posted on 11-Feb-2015 4:54:56
#100 ]
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Joined: 18-Jul-2005
Posts: 1525
From: Lake Shastina, Northern Calif.

@number6

I loved reading those comments by the judge, who was the witness, or do you know?

Selling something to a 3rd party that you don't own yet is a trick that should be punishable by law I would think. I wonder if that witness was crapping in his pants while admitting to the judge that he had sold something he did not own two days prior to asking to purchase the same item/rights/IP?

What a circus all of this has been for so many years.

What do you call a group of 1,000 attorneys at the bottom of the Ocean?














Answer: (A good start!)

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