@Who downloaded the demo

Is anybody here who downloaded the demo and had a chance to try it? Any comments?

saimo

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@saimo

Yes, downloaded, installed but it crashed on my A1XE G4. When I double clicked on the icon it opens a window during less than 1 second and the window disappear and nothing happens. I hope I can solve the problem because I would really like to give it a try. Anyway, thanks for your great effort for bringing this new software and if I like the demo I will buy it.

@Seblam

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Yes, downloaded, installed but it crashed on my A1XE G4. When I double clicked on the icon it opens a window during less than 1 second and the window disappear and nothing happens. I hope I can solve the problem because I would really like to give it a try. Anyway, thanks for your great effort for bringing this new software and if I like the demo I will buy it.

That's very surprising: I have the same machine so that's definitely the one the game has been tested most. Can you find a file called "log.txt" in the program's directory?
edit: I'm in a hurry so I had missed this bit of information: has it crashed or just exited quietly? Have you tried to run it without installing it first, perhaps?

saimo

Last edited by saimo on 11-May-2009 at 05:58 PM.

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@saimo

no log.txt file in the program directory. I don't really know what I can do I'm not a OS4.1 expert. I think my OS4.1 installation is pretty clean but who knows... On my config I have a radeon 7000 and 1Go of memory if it can be of some help...

@Seblam

Then it looks like the game cannot get the audio resources: do you have a sound card and have you set AHI correctly?

saimo

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@saimo

Seems here is the problem yes. I have a soundcard in the a1 but never take care of it and ahi as my sound system is connected on my pc (yes shame on me ) and I don't use the a1 for music purpose. It's in my todo list to have sound available on a1 side. Is it still possible to play the demo without a proper sound installation?

@Seblam

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Seems here is the problem yes. I have a soundcard in the a1 but never take care of it and ahi as my sound system is connected on my pc (yes shame on me ) and I don't use the a1 for music purpose. It's in my todo list to have sound available on a1 side. Is it still possible to play the demo without a proper sound installation?

No, sorry.

saimo

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Also I installed the demo, but I had similar results. I'll check audio settings.

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// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@saimo

Only had chance for a brief look but along with the clips, I've seen enough.
Have just filled in the form.

Hopefully I'll hear from you soon.

Cheers

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@KimmoK

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Also I installed the demo, but I had similar results. I'll check audio settings.

OK. Please keep me posted.

saimo

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@TiredofLife

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TiredofLife wrote: @saimo Only had chance for a brief look but along with the clips, I've seen enough. Have just filled in the form.

Wow, thanks!


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Hopefully I'll hear from you soon.

I have just returned home and I found only 1 order, so it must be yours... you should have an email

saimo

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@Seblam and KimmoK

May I ask you if you have you sorted out the audio settings and, if so, whether the demo runs, now?

saimo

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@saimo

Just downloaded and palyed a little. Great game!!!!!
Here the only "bug"/problem is that options move alone until i press for first tiem a key :-/

Sound seems Ok here, have a SBLive and AHI is configured.

Using a PS2 keyboard nothing special

BTW checked the spanish translation and updated/fixed some "typos" to who should I send it for proofreading?


BYE & THX

@jabirulo

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Just downloaded and palyed a little. Great game!!!!!

Glad you like it

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Here the only "bug"/problem is that options move alone until i press for first tiem a key :-/

Strange... I will check the code and get back to you.
edit: does it happen every time the menu starts? Is it totally random? Does it only happens when the program gets launched? I can't find anything wrong, here.

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BTW checked the spanish translation and updated/fixed some "typos" to who should I send it for proofreading?

You can send it directly to me

saimo

Last edited by saimo on 12-May-2009 at 09:26 PM.
Last edited by saimo on 12-May-2009 at 08:30 PM.

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@saimo
Regarding the demo, my V.EARLY impressions (which I always think are the most useful in pin-pointing what is right & wrong with software) :

The BOH folder created by the installer has no icon, as so is not immediately visible

High resolutions (like 1280x1024) seemed to make the menu run slowly, didn't even try for the game yet, so used 640x480.

For the game itself:

I found aiming rather hard, because there is no "firing line" when you shoot, just an impact flash. Especially since rotation is in small but noticable jumps, such that there are angles (and thus monsters) you simply cannot shoot at. Would not be a problem if the game did not require good accuracy to hit something (like in say Alien Breed 3D), but sadly it seems to require pixel perfect accuracy (on the tiny monster sprites), so I find that I tend to miss by just a little bit & the (fast) monster has run into me before I have a chance. I now keep the fire button held down ALL the time, which may not have been your intention.

The monsters can move very fast, which in the confined space (the dungeon rooms) makes it rather difficult to shoot & run (backwards). Running backwards is especially hard because there is no graphic indicating a wall (in the theme supplied with the demo anyway).

I found it surprising that monsters seem to respawn from anywhere, including the room you are in (and seemingly even right behind me sometimes), although always out of sight, even if I have just cleared the room. This isn't without precedent, since Left 4 Dead does a similar thing, but there the monsters move slow & spawn slow (and spawn in waves), and do NOT spawn from anywhere that you could see if you turned around, none of which is the case for BOH.

The lack of monster noises (to hint that monsters are approaching, probably from behind you) makes the respawning problem worse. It seems kind of tiring (repetitive) to have to keep rotating my view constantly.

You shoot very slowly, and the damage done to monsters is shockingly small (needing several perfectly aimed hits). This combined with the fact that monsters seem to spawn quickly, and that the monsters move fast, means I tended to find myself overwhelmed quite quickly, which is frustrating. It also makes progressing forwards quite difficult, because there seems an almost endless stream of monsters coming through some doors, who I can barely kill while standing still, let-alone when moving forwards.

Now *perhaps* I am playing the game "wrong", but I am very much a "clear one room before moving on to the next" type player. Another way of describing me could be "slow & methodical". BOH does not seemed designed to cater to that. Now, I could accept that BOH is firmly a "fast paced shoot'em-up", but the tricky aiming & weak gun does not seem to fit with that (or allow it to be played like that)...


Overall, the very first phase of the supplied mission seems quite hard for something that is supposed to be "v.easy" (so perhaps the initial difficulty has been set too high?). I'll keep trying, but the relatively high difficulty does not encourage that. It feels like a game that has only been played by the game developer(s), and perhaps the same few testers (since early in development), such that all those testing it are all quite good at the game, and thus tend to underestimate the difficulty.

Also, having played PC games, I also found it a bit surprising that pressing escape quit the mission immediately, rather than asking you, or alternatively opening a menu offering options like "quit mission", "configure controls", "change theme", etc. It may take some time to retrain myself to press the pause key (I may just end-up binding pause to the escape key!).


On the good side, the graphics seem fine, movement is smooth (at 640x480 anyway), and the sudden change from lit-to-unlit squares was not particularly jarring (although gradual fading would still be nicer).


A REMINDER: There are just my VERY early impressions, and further play may change them. But first impressions DO matter, as does keeping the player interested long enough for them to get better at it, especially for a demo, so I am posting this in the hope it might be useful.

Last edited by ChrisH on 14-May-2009 at 12:29 AM.
Last edited by ChrisH on 14-May-2009 at 12:26 AM.
Last edited by ChrisH on 14-May-2009 at 12:22 AM.
Last edited by ChrisH on 14-May-2009 at 12:19 AM.
Last edited by ChrisH on 14-May-2009 at 12:14 AM.

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@ChrisH

first of all, thanks a lot for taking the time to write such a report

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The BOH folder created by the installer has no icon, as so is not immediately visible

Ah, yes. This happened because I use icons very, very sparingly. I have added the "infos" tag to the "makedir" statement in the installer now.

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High resolutions (like 1280x1024) seemed to make the menu run slowly, didn't even try for the game yet, so used 640x480.

From the user's manual, page 8:
"9. All the suitable resolutions returned by the system are listed. If the system cannot be queried, only the base 320x240 mode and its multiples up to 4x are listed. The current mode is omitted. It is recommendable to use the smallest resolution that allows a correct view.
...
11. The current zoom level and those unsuitable to the current mode are omitted. Zooming may affect the smoothness of video refresh and, in extreme cases, slow down the program execution."

Page 20:
"* If the graphical refresh is not smooth enough, close any other application running in the background and/or select a smaller resolution/zoom and/or disable interpolation and/or disable barriers."

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I found aiming rather hard, because there is no "firing line" when you shoot, just an impact flash. Especially since rotation is in small but noticable jumps, such that there are angles (and thus monsters) you simply cannot shoot at. Would not be a problem if the game did not require good accuracy to hit something (like in say Alien Breed 3D), but sadly it seems to require pixel perfect accuracy (on the tiny monster sprites), so I find that I tend to miss by just a little bit & the (fast) monster has run into me before I have a chance. I now keep the fire button held down ALL the time, which may not have been your intention.

With a little pratice you'll get used to the no-firing-line method

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The monsters can move very fast, which in the confined space (the dungeon rooms) makes it rather difficult to shoot & run (backwards). Running backwards is especially hard because there is no graphic indicating a wall (in the theme supplied with the demo anyway).

Well, if you think about it for a second, wouldn't it be terribly difficult in reality as well?
That's part of the game: fighting monsters in difficult areas.
Anyway, when you'll find better light sources and the 360° viewer device, you'll see that things quite a bit (see pages 11 and 12).
BTW: no monster can move faster than you, including the Evil Masters (see page 19).

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I found it surprising that monsters seem to respawn from anywhere, including the room you are in (and seemingly even right behind me sometimes), although always out of sight, even if I have just cleared the room. This isn't without precedent, since Left 4 Dead does a similar thing, but there the monsters move slow & spawn slow (and spawn in waves), and do NOT spawn from anywhere that you could see if you turned around, none of which is the case for BOH.

Overview at page 9:
"A mission takes place in a battlefield made of dungeons, dangerous areas, etc. Controlling a member of the United Defence Forces (the Main Character, MC from now on), you have to explore it in order to kill the Evil Master hiding in that place. This is no easy task not only because of the traps-packed corridors and mind-blowing puzzles, but also because of the countless enemies that the Evil Master throws at you more and more until you discover the summoning point: then, enemies will stop appearing out of nowhere and you will be attacked directly by the Evil Master himself, the toughest of all. If you manage to defeat him, to complete the mission all you will have to do is reaching the exit."

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The lack of monster noises (to hint that monsters are approaching, probably from behind you) makes the respawning problem worse. It seems kind of tiring (repetitive) to have to keep rotating my view constantly.

See short- and long- range detectors described at page 12

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You shoot very slowly, and the damage done to monsters is shockingly small (needing several perfectly aimed hits).

See weapons description at page 11.

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This combined with the fact that monsters seem to spawn quickly, and that the monsters move fast, means I tended to find myself overwhelmed quite quickly, which is frustrating. It also makes progressing forwards quite difficult, because there seems an almost endless stream of monsters coming through some doors, who I can barely kill while standing still, let-alone when moving forwards. Now *perhaps* I am playing the game "wrong",

Yes, that's exactly what is happening. This is one of those hints I decided to omit from the list at page 20, because I didn't want to spoil the fun of the discovery. Anyway, if you want, contact me privately and I'll tell you more

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but I am very much a "clear one room before moving on to the next" type player. Another way of describing me could be "slow & methodical". BOH does not seemed designed to cater to that.

Exactly. BOH is a different kind of game altogether.

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Now, I could accept that BOH is firmly a "fast paced shoot'em-up", but the tricky aiming & weak gun does not seem to fit with that (or allow it to be played like that)...

BOH isn't that kind of game either

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Overall, the very first phase of the supplied mission seems quite hard for something that is supposed to be "v.easy" (so perhaps the initial difficulty has been set too high?). I'll keep trying, but the relatively high difficulty does not encourage that. It feels like a game that has only been played by the game developer(s), and perhaps the same few testers (since early in development), such that all those testing it are all quite good at the game, and thus tend to underestimate the difficulty.

Sorry, but it's just that you're not playing it in the right way. Maybe it will seem rude not to offer an explanation here, but, again, I don't want to deprive you of the pleasure of discovering how by yourself (unless you ask, of course).

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Also, having played PC games, I also found it a bit surprising that pressing escape quit the mission immediately, rather than asking you, or alternatively opening a menu offering options like "quit mission", "configure controls", "change theme", etc. It may take some time to retrain myself to press the pause key

Well, [ESC] is not a key that one can hit accidentally: it's a key that one intentionally decides to press. BOH assigns to it the most obvious function, so I guess it isn't a big issue to get used to that.

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(I may just end-up binding pause to the escape key!).

I suggest you don't, otherwise you won't have a way to quit immediately anymore.

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A REMINDER: There are just my VERY early impressions, and further play may change them. But first impressions DO matter, as does keeping the player interested long enough for them to get better at it, especially for a demo, so I am posting this in the hope it might be useful.

Sure, your intention is much appreciated
However, you can't expect any given game to be what you think it is: in this case, it's clear that BOH is completely different from what you thought. That's why in the README I have written the big fat note: "HOWEVER, TO APPROACH AND FULLY ENJOY THE GAME IT IS INDISPENSIBLE TO READ THE INCLUDED USER'S MANUAL THOROUGHLY." - BTW: I'm about to re-release the demo that has an initial page stressing the very same thing (among others).

saimo

edit: uploaded a new demo that has both the installer that creates the drawer icon and the notice at the beginning; a new demo with the C64 theme will be uploaded as soon as the music is ready.

Last edited by saimo on 14-May-2009 at 11:29 AM.

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@saimo

How about a download-version of the game? Simply could be an iso image that you have to burn on CD and the manual as pdf?

I'd be interested in a download version

nexus

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@nexus

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How about a download-version of the game? Simply could be an iso image that you have to burn on CD and the manual as pdf? I'd be interested in a download version

That's not possible, sorry. BOH was born as physical product and that's what's on sale now.

As regards why I chose to to make it physical, here's the answer to question #13 in the FAQ page of the website: "I thought that a tangible product would please Amiga users. It is something the Amiga market has been missing for a long time". Moreover, reading the paper manual is a lot easier than reading it on a monitor (and reading the manual is very important!)

saimo

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@saimo
As you may have guessed, I only read the first few pages of the manual (which is relatively large), partly because it was late & I just wanted to quickly try BOH, and partly because I manage to play modern PC games without reading the manual much (or at all)... However, I don't think that cancels any of my issues:

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the countless enemies that the Evil Master throws at you more and more until you discover the summoning point: then, enemies will stop appearing out of nowhere and you will be attacked directly by the Evil Master himself

Fine, and probably that is a hint that one should rush around like a maniac, NOT killing the monsters except when they impede your progress. Except that it feels like I've got no chance to find the summoning point, because I'll be dead (overwhelmed by monsters) long before then...

I'm sure that *once you get better at shooting & moving*, that running fast around the level isn't too hard, and the game will then not be so hard. But while I'm a complete gimboid at aiming & moving simultaneously, running fast is not conducive to learning to shoot well, which means I die quickly, which means I don't enjoy myself, which means I don't have the motivation to keep playing that would allow me to get better.

That's not to say I've given-up on BOH, but after my experience with modern PC games, I expect a much easier & gentle introduction to how-to-play (rather than being dumped right in at the deep end as it feels like here).

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See short- and long- range detectors described at page 12

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See weapons description at page 11.

Extra guns & equipment doesn't do me much good, if I'm going to die long before finding anything like that! IMHO such stuff should be standard on the easier difficulty levels, such that they are actually "easy".

I'd also like to see some kind of "monster limit" (at least on easier difficulty levels) to prevent an infinite number of monsters from spawning in the adjacent room, which prevent me from progressing further.

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ell, [ESC] is not a key that one can hit accidentally: it's a key that one intentionally decides to press

Actually it IS one that you can "accidentally" press, when you've been trained by basically every single PC game in existence to expect it to pause the game and/or offer a menu to quit. Even Payback (an ancient Amiga game) does it!

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@ChrisH

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As you may have guessed, I only read the first few pages of the manual (which is relatively large), partly because it was late & I just wanted to quickly try BOH,

I understand that, but there's a reason why I strongly suggest to read the manual

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Fine, and probably that is a hint that one should rush around like a maniac, NOT killing the monsters except when they impede your progress. Except that it feels like I've got no chance to find the summoning point, because I'll be dead (overwhelmed by monsters) long before then...

You're getting closer... but I'm not saying more not to spoil the fun. But please tell me if you want me to.

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I'm sure that *once you get better at shooting & moving*, that running fast around the level isn't too hard, and the game will then not be so hard. But while I'm a complete gimboid at aiming & moving simultaneously, running fast is not conducive to learning to shoot well, which means I die quickly, which means I don't enjoy myself, which means I don't have the motivation to keep playing that would allow me to get better.

Getting better at aiming & moving simultaneously helps (and is necessary to play the hard missions), but it's more a matter of attitude.

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That's not to say I've given-up on BOH,

Great
My humble suggestion is: make sure that if you do it, it's only after having really understood BOH. Otherwise, you might miss something that could have been fun to you.

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but after my experience with modern PC games, I expect a much easier & gentle introduction to how-to-play (rather than being dumped right in at the deep end as it feels like here). Extra guns & equipment doesn't do me much good, if I'm going to die long before finding anything like that! IMHO such stuff should be standard on the easier difficulty levels, such that they are actually "easy". I'd also like to see some kind of "monster limit" (at least on easier difficulty levels) to prevent an infinite number of monsters from spawning in the adjacent room, which prevent me from progressing further.

Believe me, the first phase of the demo is very, very easy... if faced with the right mentality, that is

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Actually it IS one that you can "accidentally" press, when you've been trained by basically every single PC game in existence to expect it to pause the game and/or offer a menu to quit. Even Payback (an ancient Amiga game) does it!

I don't think that learning that [ESC] aborts the current mission is so hard.

In general, from your posts, it seems like you're playing BOH believing it is (or should be like) some other game: well, no, BOH is BOH, with its own gameplay and rules. Of course, you may not like it and that's fine. But it's not BOH that has to be adapted to the mentality of other games.

saimo

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RETREAM - retro dreams for Amiga, Commodore 64 and PC