Quote:

My hardware is an AmigaONE-XE and it does work whit MorphOS or AROS, and personally I don't think the clones has any thing to offer me.

The clones, as you call them, are faster, provides a wider range of hardware support, and are more stable than your system. Not to mention, of course, that the hardware it runs on is bug-free.

Maybe you should stop calling them "clones", like if it was some kind of dirty inferior thing. Cause obviously it's not...

I'm of course speaking of MorphOS on Pegasos2. So for a start, here is what it offers: faster, more stable, better compatibility, wider range of hardware (USB for example), etc...

Now knowing that you may still stick to your solution... But then we can wonder what's your motivations...

Last edited by Leo on 18-Apr-2009 at 03:00 PM.

_________________
http://www.warpdesign.fr/

Isn't anyone watching this thread?

It's gone way way

Hyperion Entertainment ... embarks on its most ambitious project to date

_________________
"The system no longer works " -- Young Anakin Skywalker

@Leo


Quote:

The clones, as you call them, are faster, provides a wider range of hardware support,

I have not seen a complete list of safe computers to buy that AROS supports, what actual software does it run.

MorphOS run on Elfika 1, Pegasus1, Pegasus 2, Blizzard PPC, Cyberstrom PPC
Thats 5 hardware platforms.

AmigaOS4.x runs on A1SE, A1XE, MicroA1, Sam440ep, Sam440flex, Pegasus II, Blizzard PPC, Cyberstom PPC.
Thats 8 hardware platforms.

Quote:

and are more stable than your system. Not to mention, of course,

Do you have any prof of just that?

Quote:

that the hardware it runs on is bug-free.

Are you saying that Pegasus II and Sam440 are full of bugs? Do you have any evidence to back that up? You do know that AmgaOS4.1 runs on PegasusII don't you?

Well clamming that “ALL” AROS is bug free is bit ambiguous don't you think.
What about Pegasus1 is that bug free?

Quote:

like if it was some kind of dirty inferior thing. Cause obviously it's not...

I was not saying that, clones to means “copies of” or “imitations of”, and AROS and MorphOS is just that they are heavily inspired by AmigaOS3.x whit there own spin on top, whether thats bad or not, I did not say, I just don't think they have any thing to offer me.

Quote:

Now knowing that you may still stick to your solution...

When are MorphOS coming to my AmigaONE-XE so I can try it?

Quote:

But then we can wonder what's your motivations...

Right now I don't see any thing that MorphOS has to offer that so extremely appalling to me, that a personal option, others don't need to agree whit me on this.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 18-Apr-2009 at 04:17 PM.

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@bernd_afa Quote:

yeah you are really great you ask what people think in the beginning thread.if a new memprotect system is really come some day from Hyperion.then i write what i think and then you say to me i do anti OS4 debatte.

NO, I did not. I asked for SPECULATION as to what Hyperion's "most ambitious project to date" is. Maybe it is memory protection, maybe it is something else.

Then YOU come along and start saying how crap OS4 is because of such & such. If you want to start a new thread about that, then PLEASE GO AHEAD. But doing it here is OFF TOPIC. And I find your rude attitude extremely unpleasant.

Quote:

this thread is a speculation how realistic it is, if Hyperion can realize a good working Memory Protect AOS.

No, that is NOT what this thread is about. You are trying to turn it into that, but that was not how it started.

Quote:

i want tell in the example of the library system which is one of the very new design features of OS4, that Hyperion seem not able to do API that is acceptable to many, because the OS4 interface is not add in GCC. The thread theme is this.

No it isn't.

@whose Quote:

Btw., topic was not "memory protection enabled API and what Bernd Roesch thinks about it using weird assumptions", it was "Hyperion Entertainment ... embarks on its most ambitious project to date". This states nothing about what exactly this project may be. You´re free to speculate about what this project may be, but you will stay off topic as long as you try to convince other people that the work of Hyperion and many others is "disorganized", which is your own very personal opinion and not backed up by any claim you made so far.

THANK YOU. This is my feeling too.

Last edited by ChrisH on 18-Apr-2009 at 04:03 PM.

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It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

@Interesting Quote:

Isn't anyone watching this thread?

Sadly I've been busy, or I would have dealt with bernd_afa's rubbish long ago. IMHO it may be time to use the TOS (Terms Of Service):

Quote:

Troll: Trolls show no respect for other people's opinions and deliberately crafts messages to provoke others with the intention of wasting their time and energy or just to cause anger and confrontations. There is no point in arguing with them; their minds are made up. Ignore them, and report the posts immediately to an Amigaworld Team Member. Repeat offenders may incur an instant banned.

Quote:

Threads: Creating threads that are not related to the forum category or posts which are not related to the thread that they are submitted to is against the rules. If you wish to discuss Off-Topic issues, please use our 'Free For All' forum. Also creating threads with misleading topics is against the rules. Repeated violation of this rule after one warning may lead to moderator action.

(bernd_afa, please consider this your last warning, before I take the EXTREMELY unusual step of reporting your posts to moderators. I've probably only done this once before in my whole time on AW.net.)

Last edited by ChrisH on 18-Apr-2009 at 04:16 PM.
Last edited by ChrisH on 18-Apr-2009 at 04:14 PM.
Last edited by ChrisH on 18-Apr-2009 at 04:13 PM.
Last edited by ChrisH on 18-Apr-2009 at 04:13 PM.
Last edited by ChrisH on 18-Apr-2009 at 04:13 PM.

_________________
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It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

@ChrisH

Quote:

Then YOU come along and start saying how crap OS4 is because of such & such. If you want to start a new thread about that, then PLEASE GO AHEAD. But doing it here is OFF TOPIC. And I find your rude attitude extremely unpleasant.

if you understand from my text i write that OS4 is crap, then its your meaning, (i have not written that it is crap), if you interpret my Arguments.

but when the arguments show me that it is very very unrealistic that Hyperion really is able to do a new OS4 API, wy can i this arguments not write ?.

maybe i am wrong, but currently there are many text written, but nobody bring real arguments(maybe with PPC asm code) wy OS4 as the only OS(not only AOS)that cant use the LPT macros or the other stack calling features that are in GCC and are especially written for call OS funtions from Jump Tables, so no C syntac func->lib is need.

Or how long should we wait until Hyperion tell what they mean with this "embarks on its most ambitious project to date" ?

I see also on Hyperion page the since many years announced Gorky17 for OS4 is now again announce for OS4.Maybe they mean that for OS4 with their great sentence on OS4 Homepage.

--------------------- ontopic

realistic i think they mean gorky17 or OS4 on mac mini they work.But mac mini is not announce, because then many dont buy a SAM.

getting OS4 running on MAC or powerstation, i think Hyperion is able to do when they want and we want wait longer for this, but i think not they can do a full memprotect API.and here i have write arguments wy i think Hypeiron is not able to do.

---------------------- ontopic

sure Hyperion work very slow, but a announcement can very fast done, if it is realize or not, or late is often seen by Hyperion.

Or should i think that Hypeiron is now too slow that they are now need tell the people that they should wait for big project announcements, because they need long time to find out what they want announce ?

Last edited by bernd_afa on 19-Apr-2009 at 09:23 AM.
Last edited by bernd_afa on 19-Apr-2009 at 09:22 AM.
Last edited by bernd_afa on 19-Apr-2009 at 09:20 AM.
Last edited by bernd_afa on 19-Apr-2009 at 09:19 AM.

@bernd_afa

Quote:

ok, how long should we wait now until Hyperion tell as on what big the work ?

Don't you think there is some sort of contradiction from your part here ? On one hand you are attacking Hyperion because they were announcing too early what they are working on and now on the other hand you are dying because there don't announce it ? Strange don't you think ?

Quote:

i need to know, so i can stop AFA because Hyperion maybe do really good that i and 10000 others like to buy. :)

Nobody asked you to stop anything, with the amount of interest you showed to AOS4 I don't see why you are saying that.. Need an excuse to stop working on AfA ?

_________________
AOS 4.1 : I dream it, Hyperion did it !
Now dreaming AOS 4.2...
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@bernd_afa (AND THE MODERATORS)
Since you do not dispute that your posts are off-topic, you are implicitly agreeing they are. But by not admitting that, you are making it clear you will continue to make off-topic posts. (Certainly I see no new thread created by you.) Therefore consider your posts reported.

Quote:

if you understand from my text i write that OS4 is crap, then its your meaning, (i have not written that it is crap), if you interpret my Arguments

And to prove you don't say OS4 is crap, the rest of your post is saying Hyperion is crap! Oh for sure you don't SPECIFICALLY say "OS4/Hyperion is crap" (that was my summary), but that is exactly what you are trying to say with your "Arguments", and you do it in a very antagonistic & rude (trolling) way, and you contradict yourself in an attempt to prove OS4 is worse than OS3/AROS/whatever.

You are so obviously trolling that replying to you further is a waste of time. I am only going to list the most obvious trolling statements to make the moderator's life easier:
Quote:

if OS4 is bad written and cant so easy ... port to another CPU

Quote:

Hyperion have done wrong all can do, and so there are not many that buy or code for OS4

Quote:

oh the mystic better OS4

Quote:

and thats what i called the OS4 fanatic.

Quote:

yeah you are really great you ask what people think in the beginning thread.

Quote:

when you open your eyes

Quote:

luckily OS4 is not the only OS in the world

Quote:

Hyperion seem not able to do API that is acceptable to many

Quote:

sure first was say the great new OS4 design allow this not

Quote:

at the end Hyperion add this little need feature that btw MOS have from beginning

Quote:

Hyperion is not able to make out of OS4 a attractive product

Quote:

tell me wy this special OS4 interface have no other OS

Quote:

OS4 interface is more a marketing Gag to show easy whow there are great things

Quote:

when they nothing precise announce

Quote:

Hyperion work very slow, but a announcement can very fast done

Quote:

should i think that Hypeiron is now too slow

Of course, the rest of your statements were slightly more subtle, but the overall message (theme) was that OS4 is worse than OS3/etc, that Hyperion suck, that we are all stupid for not knowing this, and that you will continue to make rude posts in an attempt to get replies. Given this is an OS4-centric forum, the rest of the world knows this as trolling.

Never mind that your posts are ALSO off topic (since this thread is about what people think MIGHT be Hyperion's "most ambitious project to date" - NOT how bad you think OS4 is, or how impossible you think adding memory protection to OS4 is, or how bad Hyperion are).

Last edited by ChrisH on 19-Apr-2009 at 10:57 AM.
Last edited by ChrisH on 19-Apr-2009 at 10:56 AM.
Last edited by ChrisH on 19-Apr-2009 at 10:53 AM.
Last edited by ChrisH on 19-Apr-2009 at 10:52 AM.
Last edited by ChrisH on 19-Apr-2009 at 10:52 AM.
Last edited by ChrisH on 19-Apr-2009 at 10:45 AM.

_________________
Author of the PortablE programming language.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

@ChrisH

Quote:

Of course, the rest of your statements were slightly more subtle, but the overall message (theme) was that OS4 is worse than OS3/etc, that Hyperion suck, that we are all stupid

again thats your interpretation of my words, and thats wrong.
Do you think OS4 is the best OS, there is nothing to do better, and other people are stupid that dont use it ?.
And to show that i am stupid you change my words i think.

now to be fair let me interprete your Thread here.

You want suggest people that Hyerion do something great, because of this unprecise annoncement on Hyperions Page and want that there come hope and posts that people think Hyperion do really great and its better to wait for Hyperion than for example buy MOS on mac mini, or do bounty to AROS.That you get so angre to my words and need change my words, maybe show that.

what do you think what hapen, when there is for example on the homepage of a car manufactor the message "embarks on its most ambitious project to date"

and now come somebody that say what if this car manufactor release a car that drive with simple water ?

sure it is only a question, but when then a users write it seem not possible, bring arguments, against it, then his words are changed and wrong interpret from other.

but this can use to manipulate people to not buy other products.

I have not told that OS4 is crap or bad, or user are stupid, i have only told in short and bring arguments.Or is ít wrong to say that OS4 progress is slow in compare to other OS that cost this money or in compare to Linux ?

this is a fact, but dont say Hyperion or OS4 is crap.

If you think all is perfect in OS4 but you see not much buy it, what do you think about other people that dont buy OS4 ?

Do you think they are stupid ?
Do you hope you can manipulate them with your thread to buy OS4 and avoid other ?

Last edited by bernd_afa on 19-Apr-2009 at 11:38 AM.
Last edited by bernd_afa on 19-Apr-2009 at 11:34 AM.
Last edited by bernd_afa on 19-Apr-2009 at 11:32 AM.

@ChrisH & others

Come on guys, it should be pretty clear by now that no matter what you say, it will not change bernd's bias. I brought up plenty of examples what makes the interface system so much more robust and future-proof than the classic design, but he just ignored the points I made, and when he couldn't bring up anything against them, he then changed the topic and started discussing GCC. It's better to just ignore the off-topic posts and get on with discussing the topic. The more you reply the more you feed the off-topic discussion.

@COBRA

>Come on guys, it should be pretty clear by now that no matter what you say, it will >not change bernd's bias. I brought up plenty of examples what makes the interface >system so much more robust and future-proof than the classic design,

I not compare between classic AOS design or OS4 design.i also compare other OS design and OS4.OS4 interfaces is the only design that use -> function calls.no other OS use that.Wy not ?

The mix of code 68k ppc is also no reason, because MAC work also without that.

Last edited by bernd_afa on 19-Apr-2009 at 11:43 AM.
Last edited by bernd_afa on 19-Apr-2009 at 11:42 AM.

Everyone realizes this is just a forum, right? And that nothing here has any impact on their life other than consuming the time it takes to read it? Sheesh.

Maybe Hyperion scored a fat government contract writing Amiga-based firmware for the new EU toilet on the ISS.

_________________
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borked A1200/Blizzard1260+SCSI-IV/Z4+MediatorZIV/Deneb/Voodoo3/CatweaselMk3
more borked A1200/MBX1200z/Indivision
A500/clockport/RRNet
A600/A603

@bernd_afa

Quote:

I not compare between classic AOS design or OS4 design.

Yes you did, you argued several times that the things which the OS4 design can do is also possible with the original design by patching it here and there. So please, stop this nonesense, we understand that you think Hyperion are incompetent and their work is crap in your mind, so let's leave it at that.

Quote:

I have not seen a complete list of safe computers to buy that AROS supports, what actual software does it run.

Read my post: I was referring mostly to MorphOS. Sorry then, should have said "clone", and not "clones"...

Quote:

MorphOS run on Elfika 1, Pegasus1, Pegasus 2, Blizzard PPC, Cyberstrom PPC Thats 5 hardware platforms.

I was referring to the third party hardware you have access to (like: USB devices supported, Graphics board, supported in both 2D/3D, and so on...). Care to list all devices supported by Poseidon so that we can make a comparison ?

Quote:

Do you have any prof of just that?

Articia is buggy. I won't dare provide any proof. DMA wouldn't work correctly without manualy flushing the cache. This is a bug, not a feature...

Quote:

Are you saying that Pegasus II and Sam440 are full of bugs? Do you have any evidence to back that up?

I'm saying that any articia based hardware AmigaOS4 runs on is buggy (so called "AmigaOne" variants...)

Quote:

You do know that AmgaOS4.1 runs on PegasusII don't you?

As I own it, I guess I do.

Quote:

Well clamming that “ALL” AROS is bug free is bit ambiguous don't you think.

Again, I was referring to MorphOS.

Quote:

What about Pegasus1 is that bug free?

Pegasos 1 (that's "Pegasos"... at least name it correctly...) has got an hardware chip to fix most of Articia's flaws.

Quote:

I was not saying that, clones to means “copies of” or “imitations of”, and AROS and MorphOS is just that they are heavily inspired by AmigaOS3.x whit there own spin on top, whether thats bad or not, I did not say, I just don't think they have any thing to offer me.

Well, read my post again, I gave you a few things it could offer which OS4 does not...

Quote:

When are MorphOS coming to my AmigaONE-XE so I can try it?

Why would they port their OS to buggy, broken (yes, by reading a lot of posts here, it seems a lot of boards are stopping to work...) sold in maybe less than a thousand users ? I don't see any good reason. You may try it for free on Amiga/Pegasos/MacMini soon...

Quote:

Right now I don't see any thing that MorphOS has to offer that so extremely appalling to me, that a personal option, others don't need to agree whit me on this.

Indeed...

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@bernd_afa

Quote:

I not compare between classic AOS design or OS4 design.i also compare other OS design and OS4.OS4 interfaces is the only design that use -> function calls.no other OS use that.Wy not ?

Quote:

GCC and are especially written for call OS funtions from Jump

You most realize that AmigaOS3.x is only OS using this obsolete technique, please give me some examples of other OS's that use this.

In Linux .so hell there are no jump/function tables, there are only symbols that are automatically liked at run time, see ld and ldd linux commands

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 19-Apr-2009 at 12:29 PM.

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@Leo

Quote:

Articia is buggy. I won't dare provide any proof. DMA wouldn't work correctly without manualy flushing the cache. This is a bug, not a feature...

Another attempt to hijack the thread... (btw in this case all Classic Amiga hardware is also buggy, because those also require cache flushing in software).

@COBRA

>Another attempt to hijack the thread... (btw in this case all Classic Amiga hardware >is also buggy, because those also require cache flushing in software).

To be realistic, Genesi sell their articia with April.

but when you say articia is not buggy, wy have Genesi spend work and cost to add April to their Peg 1 ?

also there are problems known that articia have problems with TV card and DMA

Last edited by bernd_afa on 19-Apr-2009 at 12:52 PM.

>Yes you did, you argued several times that the things which the OS4 design can do >is also possible with the original design by patching it here and there.

yes it can enhance to be momory protect too, or use libs with same name but diffrent nums, but i dont say OS4 have not more feature currently in interface.

I dont get answer if there are 2 libs with diffrent numbers are here in OS4 and if OS4 jumptables are protect or it is only theoretic possible ?

same is possible with OS .x too.
also it is possible to make a struzcture in AOS and call with IExec->AllocMem.But i see no need to do the work.maybe from OS4 emul in MOS source is released, then other AOS can also use interfaces,

struct IExec
{
.....

(*AllocMem)()
.....


}

Last edited by bernd_afa on 19-Apr-2009 at 01:08 PM.

@bernd_afa

Quote:

Then other AOS can also use interfaces,

680x0 programs should not have interfaces, 680x0 programs are considered legacy,
Interfaces contains PowerPC code only, JMP tables contains stubs functions.

Quote:

But i see no need to do the work.

If you think about implementing 680x0 emulation whit in the AROS.

Quote:

maybe from OS4 emul in MOS source is released

I surprised you have not downloaded the OS4 SDK.
Are you afraid of using copy right protected materials?

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@ChrisH

Hi

To get this thread back on topic, Hyperion could well be working on a new Kernal for OS4. I look forward to any advancements so long as the OS remains fast and efficient and is compatable with current apps while allowing for future software as you discrbed in your opening post, old and new Kernals running together.

I don`t know the roadmap for OS4 but maybe they are working on 4.2 or 4.5. Perhaps they are expanding the platform so it runs on more hardware, this is something they have got to do eventually as current hardware won`t be around forever.

I`m pretty sure that they aren`t working on a Mac Mini (or any PPC Mac) port as thats old hat now and Hyperion want to move forward to new hardware not backwards.

I wonder after looking at their website whether Hyperion could be working on a layer for OS4 to allow Linux and Mac apps to run transparently as they deal with Mac and Linux platforms too. Of course a major change to OS4 would have to take place, hence old and new kernals. I`m not a programmer and don`t know much about how an OS works so this is just an idea and I expect would be for PPC apps but would be awsome if they could pull it off.

I expect we`ll ultimately have to wait and see what happens.

Andy.