@NutsAboutAmiga

>Interfaces contains PowerPC code only, JMP tables contains stubs functions.

i give up now, seem it ís impossible to explain that from processor view a call with IEexec->tetsfunc is same as a call with the gcc lpt macros.this are no stubs and need a jump table, to jump in.the LPT macros read direct the address from the table and jump direct in the function and NOT in the table.same AROS, AROS have too macros, so it need not use of libbase->alocmem

there are AROS inline macros,all is offical support by compiler.AFA use it too and this can work on all CPU

a call look as this to a6 is load library base.now is only the address from jump table load, then the jsr (a0) go direct to the function and not in jump table.

MOVEA.L $1A4(A4),A6 ;library base
MOVEA.L -$C4(A6),A0 ; load the address of function from table
JSR (A0) ;now jump direct to function
MOVE.L D0,-$68(A5)
BEQ _Graphics_AllocBitMap+$E2 ;112B3B9A

same do the compiler when you make a iexec struct and call them with iexec->func

the optimizer support this too very well, if library base is not change, the load of library base is avoid the calls can reorder, and use diffrent jump registers (if a0 is used)

Last edited by bernd_afa on 19-Apr-2009 at 02:16 PM.
Last edited by bernd_afa on 19-Apr-2009 at 02:13 PM.
Last edited by bernd_afa on 19-Apr-2009 at 02:11 PM.
Last edited by bernd_afa on 19-Apr-2009 at 02:09 PM.

@bernd_afa

If you like to write code like that then OS4.x will have no problem executing it under emulation, but I don't think you will gain a lot by doing so, at least it has be a where tight loop be of any use.

And yes you will need to make absolutely shore that A0 is not changed, inside sub routine you are executing, this should not be a problem in the case of OS4.x PowerPC libraries (because 680x0 registers are untouched, unless return values are set), but on classic system might give you lots of problems.

In the case of C based programs that use the stack to hold local variables, things are bit different, well you can force GCC to use a register, but the number of registers are where limited only r1 to r32, the registers on PowerPC different from 680x0, because they can be used for Data and Address.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 19-Apr-2009 at 06:09 PM.

_________________
http://lifeofliveforit.blogspot.no/
Facebook::LiveForIt Software for AmigaOS

@NutsAboutAmiga

>And yes you will need to make absolutely shore that A0 is not changed, inside sub >routine you are executing,

this does all the compiler handle, AROS work with that method on PPC X86 68k and i see some arm snippets.

so i dont believe that it is better for mem protect to call functions wirth -> or do macros that convert standard OS calling to OS4 scheme.

i only want show, that there is no need that on a OS function need call with IExec->AllocMem and interfaces diffrent than whole other OS world and make it more work to Port programs from OS4

when you look what this 3 asm instructions do, you see its the same as OS4 with his interface do.

Last edited by bernd_afa on 19-Apr-2009 at 04:57 PM.
Last edited by bernd_afa on 19-Apr-2009 at 04:55 PM.

@bernd_afa

Could you make up another thread for such talks, please? Your stance regarding calling conventions and/or gcc has really nothing to do with the topic anymore!

@bernd_afa

Continue this here. As interesting as I find this conversation it's wildly off topic in this thread.

Last edited by Zardoz on 19-Apr-2009 at 05:37 PM.
Last edited by Zardoz on 19-Apr-2009 at 05:35 PM.

_________________

@thread

I have *not* yet read this thread in entirety, as I just got back an hour ago from some time off.

I have, however, looked at the plethora of ARs submitted, and *some* of the thread contents.

I see nothing *at this time* that violates the TOS in Bernd's individual statements, regardless of my not agreeing with him, and sharing some of the other posters frustrations in this thread....except some of this is *way* off topic.

bernd - please start a new thread for discussions regarding 'why and/or why not OS4 doing X is or is not a good idea.' Anything continued in here will simply be treated as baiting/trolling, as well as ignoring (Zardoz and now my) requests from Staff. Thanks.

_________________
Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

@wegster: The problem with bernd is, that he don´t know AmigaOS4 very well, don´t wan´t to use it and even don´t like it. But he uses every opportunity to bash AmigaOS4 and/or Hyperion (and call it "discussion").

I had this "discussions" with bernd many times before and it has a reason, why he is banned from amiga-news.de.

I don´t say, that bernd is a bad guy or a troll, but he is a little to fanatic in his opinion. If he don´t like AOS4.1 it´s o.k. for me, but he should stop his AOS4-bashing and support AROS or his own AFA instead.

_________________
AmigaOne X5000/40, 2.2 Ghz, 4 GB RAM, Radeon R9 280X, M-Audio Revolution 5.1, 240 GB SSD

@Hans

Quote:

Hans wrote: @fairlanefastback ... Yes, the Ford Fiesta has been around in NZ for years, but there are way more Toyotas, Hondas and Mitsubishis on the roads. People going for more expensive cars tend to go for European cars. Ford is the only North American manufacturer that is present in the NZ marketplace ...

Yes - but the Fiesta is basically developed and built in Cologne, Germany by the Ford Werke G.m.b.H. (Ford of Europe). The "mother company" is the North America based Ford Motor Company.

But maybe as a consequence of Ford`s worldwide restructuring efforts they`re globalizing their best products and FAP (Ford Asia Pacific) produces the Fiesta for these markets meanwhile - dunno - could ask tomorrow...

_________________
Ciao

Dandy
__________________________________________
If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him.
He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him!
(Albert Einstein)

@thread
Quote:

many wrote: Yes, the Ford Fiesta has been around in NZ for years... ..maybe as a consequence of Ford`s worldwide ...

I find it funny that Hyperion managed to derail this thread by dropping a comment about cars haha

Brilliant.

_________________
A posting a day keeps the sanity away...

@arnljot

Quote:

I find it funny that Hyperion managed to derail this thread by dropping a comment about cars haha Brilliant.

As as I am aware nobody from Hyperion has posted in this entire thread.

_________________
Peter Swallow.
A1XEG3-800 [IBM 750FX PowerPC], running OS4.1FE, using ac97 onboard sound.

"There are 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't."

@Swoop

Quote:

Swoop wrote: As as I am aware nobody from Hyperion has posted in this entire thread.

Yes, here:

Quote:

Hyperionmp wrote: @Trev "Amiga and Commodore were moving the right direction. (...). The current incarnation of AmigaOS has more in common with Windows than it does with its creative forebears." I believe you must be one of the only persons ever to claim that Commodore was moving in the right direction. I would also like to point out that AmigaOS 4.1 is based on the AmigaOS 3.x source-code. Any suggestion that AmigaOS 4.x has more in common with Windows than it does with is creative forebears betrays a very deep lack of understanding in what AmigaOS 4.1 is.

And here and here:

Quote:

Not even Microsoft has the resources to develop all the software you mentioned. Which is why there are third party software developers. Would we want a future in which all software is developed by a single company?

Quote:

if this reasoning was correct, there would be no MacOS or Linux. Similarly, everyone would be driving the same car (hopefully not American made).

Last edited by marko on 20-Apr-2009 at 10:30 PM.
Last edited by marko on 20-Apr-2009 at 10:25 PM.

_________________
AmigaOS 4.1 FEu2 on Sam440ep-flex 800MHz 1GB RAM
C128, A500+, A1200, A1200/40, AmigaForever 2008+09+16, 5 x86/x64 boxes
Still waiting (or dreaming) for the Amiga revolution...
m4rko.com/AMIGA

@all

most ambitous Hyperion project is an AOS4 ( Arm Operating system 4 ) for the new mobile device from Genesi based on the ARM processor from Freescale. AOS4 will run on a QUARK micro kernel with full memory protection and the new advanced Ambient GUI that will give a totally new look to the old fashioned Workbench. A New GFX system called MUAgtion a totally reworked Reaction system made by Stefan Stunz.
Hyperion wants to licence CGX4.0 GFX system together with its advanced 3D suport, an exhanced version of the AOS4 wil be available with full Poseidon USB3.0 support.

In a short interview we asked Rogue what will be taken from AmigaOS4 to ArmOS4 and he answered:
"To be frank, we had to rewrite everything. With the help of some freelancing partners, we where able to build everything new in less than 6 month. Now the whole system is free from licences that may belong to any 3rd party company. Even if we don*t have any line of code left from AmigaOS4, that may have lefgt from AmigaOS3, this system looks and feels like an Amiga should look an feel that got continous development and enhancemenrt as we know it from other systems. Tha last 6 month whe did a lot of hard work and wie where able to port the Amiga Spirit (c) from AmigaOS3 to ArmOS4 without keeping a single line of Code."

cu Arko

( I'm still like to read some of the funny ideas about 'Mosrt ambitous projects' and cfreating my own version of it )

_________________
AmigaONE. Haha. Just because you can put label on it does not make it Amiga.

I borrowed this comments from here (#27 & #28):
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=38873&forum=2&start=20&order=0

@Arko

They could be remodeling their break room. Bean bag chairs, anyone?

_________________
Sam440ep-flex 733 MHz/1 GB RAM/Radeon 9250/AmigaOS4.1 Update 2
borked A1200/Blizzard1260+SCSI-IV/Z4+MediatorZIV/Deneb/Voodoo3/CatweaselMk3
more borked A1200/MBX1200z/Indivision
A500/clockport/RRNet
A600/A603

@all

Quote:

arnljot wrote: @thread Quote: many wrote: Yes, the Ford Fiesta has been around in NZ for years... ..maybe as a consequence of Ford`s worldwide ... I find it funny that Hyperion managed to derail this thread by dropping a comment about cars haha Brilliant.

If anyone wants to continue the car conversation FYI there is a new thread to do so that was made here:

http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=28632&forum=4

_________________
Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

@AP

>I had this "discussions" with bernd many times before and it has a reason, why he >is banned from amiga-news.de.

oh now you find a good way ,make it look like i am a bad guy.

Sorry for offtopic.But AP message is too offtopic, he only wnat say with that post, that i am a bad buy.

I hope i get the chance here to bring the facts what really happen at anews.its fair, and i can also bring Facts, everybody can verify by translate anews posts

The main reason that i was banned, is because moderator cg is a OS4 user, allow in his moderation to say for example AROS should die, only the real AOS should survive.but if somebody say something same to OS4, this is delete.So amiganews is not neutral and OS4 users know that and provokate change words, so i must write again and correct it.

here is a example thread that show that bashes again AROS are not delete.

http://www.amiganews.de/de/news/comments/thread/AN-2008-04-00082-DE.html?frm_start=20

some short translate of the comment 3
this thread was that traveller Author give up traveler.

""""
3. Traveller-Autor zieht sich aus AROS-Entwicklung zurück
ich (30-Apr-2008, 14:46)
juhu, weg mit aros.

damit werden endlich mehr reccourcen fuer os4 frei. jetzt nur noch die "blauen" einstampfen und wir sind wieder eine community. ^^
""""

short translate:

""""
juhu away with AROS.now there get more resources for OS4, only kill the blue and we are one community.
""""

"""""
5. Traveller-Autor zieht sich aus AROS-Entwicklung zurück
AmigaHarry (30-Apr-2008, 19:40)
Sehr gut, weg mit allen Pseudo Amiga Systemen. :)
AROS war noch nie Amiga und wird es nie sein.
""""

short translate

""""
very good, away with all fake Amiga Systems :)
AROS was never amiga and never get it.

""""

and if somebody write for example same to OS4 then post get cancel.
I think in a fair moderation such comments should delete, so i really have no motivation to ask anews for register again.

there are lots more threads(should i post more links ?) that show not fair moderation, and you can at anews read very often the propaganda simular.All other AOS should die only OS4 should buy.

Last edited by bernd_afa on 21-Apr-2009 at 08:33 AM.
Last edited by bernd_afa on 21-Apr-2009 at 08:32 AM.

Quote:

most ambitous Hyperion project is an AOS4 ( Arm Operating system 4 ) for the new mobile device from Genesi based on the ARM processor from Freescale. AOS4 will run on a QUARK micro kernel with full memory protection and the new advanced Ambient GUI that will give a totally new look to the old fashioned Workbench. A New GFX system called MUAgtion a totally reworked Reaction system made by Stefan Stunz. Hyperion wants to licence CGX4.0 GFX system together with its advanced 3D suport, an exhanced version of the AOS4 wil be available with full Poseidon USB3.0 support.

While this sounds utopic, this is what could have happened in a world were people do not think about their personnal interests/convictions before thinking about the product.

No offence to the author of Sirion, but Poseidon is way ahead of this stack... Why reinventing the wheel ? That's a waste of time & resources that could have been better spent on something else (software...).

The same goes for CGX which was full PPC way before P96 went PPC. And seems to support a wider range of boards, be faster, more modern (DDC support), etc...

We could go on and on... Now we have two systems implemeting the very same APIs, providing the very same resources, emulating the very same instructions, having the same applications (that need to be ported twice, once for each system), and incompatible (if we exclude OS4Emu).

Nice... That's what I call a waste. But neither side seems to care... By cooperating instead of going on its own path, we could have a muc much much better product, a lot of applications we don't have now.. and double the size of users/developers... But who cares ?

_________________
http://www.warpdesign.fr/

@Leo

Simple solution.. Stop developing MorphOS and AROS and let those developers do OS4 stuff.. Ehh won't work I guess
Maybe each camp has too much pride to cooperate?

I think each of the OSes have come too long in its development to just give it up or develop together. I also think the developers are proud of their work and each think their approach is the correct one. It simply has gone too much time for this kind of tight OS development. Although this should not stop cooperation in terms of applications, like Firefox.

But noone can argue that if we had one Amiga OS it would have been developed faster and we would have had much more applications.

Last edited by Samwel on 21-Apr-2009 at 09:30 AM.

_________________
/Harry

[SOLD] µA1-C - 750GX 800MHz - 512MB - Antec Aria case

Avatar by HNL_DK!

Quote:

Simple solution.. Stop developing MorphOS and AROS and let those developers do OS4 stuff.. Ehh won't work I guess Maybe each camp has too much pride to cooperate?

Well, the easier solution was not to develop OS4. Because MorphOS was already a full PPC AmigaOS before OS4 development ever started. And having used both on the same machine, MorphOS is still way more advanced today. In every aspect.

Now it's too late indeed. But working for either, and knowing this waste is still going on prevents me from working for it...

I guess they have too much pride indeed, and should be a lot more humble... Especially when you know the place of all these OSs right now in the computing ecosystem (ie: nowhere...).

_________________
http://www.warpdesign.fr/

Multicolour AmigaWorld can be a strenght!

I hope the community learns and makes it possible.

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@bernd_afa

Quote:

The main reason that i was banned, is because moderator cg is a OS4 user, allow in his moderation to say for example AROS should die, only the real AOS should survive.

You must be kidding, don't you ? Cg is Christoph Gutjahr and I always thought he was a MorphOS user, it's new to me he's using OS4, anyway I don't think he so eager to kill other OSes that you want to say, a quick look on Aminet will show you that he has uploaded way more MorphOS related things than almost anyone else. Strange for someone who wants (and here I'm quoting you) "only the real AOS should survive"... Except if you are referring to MOS when you are saying "the real AOS" then your remark has nothing to do here because the subject is Hyperion and last time I checked Hyperion was not evolved in MOS (or could it be their "most ambitious project to date" )

Oh and last : moderation policy of anews is not the subject either....

_________________
AOS 4.1 : I dream it, Hyperion did it !
Now dreaming AOS 4.2...
Thank you to all devs involved for this great job !