@fairlanefastback

Quote:

if Cell is the target, what actual end-user hardware would we be talking about here?

A rumoured secret manufacturer. Maybe Fixstars. (?)

Last edited by Tomppeli on 23-Apr-2009 at 04:46 PM.

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"Anyone can build a fast CPU. The trick is to build a fast system." -Seymour Cray

@Tomppeli

Well I hope if that were true they'd have some hardware cheaper then their current "stand-alone Cell computer on a PCI Express (PCIe) card."

Its SIX THOUSAND ONE HUNDRED USD!!!!

http://us.fixstars.com/store/index.php?submit=software&submitimg[hardware][fixstars]=1

Which is made worse by the fact it can only be installed in limited hardware.

http://us.fixstars.com/products/gigaaccel/compatible_motherboards.shtml

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 23-Apr-2009 at 04:49 PM.

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@fairlanefastback

Quote:

Its SIX THOUSAND ONE HUNDRED USD!!!!

Is it really that expensive ?!

_________________
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"Anyone can build a fast CPU. The trick is to build a fast system." -Seymour Cray

@fairlanefastback

That's over $2100 more expensive than the 8641D evaluation board that no one seems to talk about.

Last edited by Rob on 23-Apr-2009 at 05:06 PM.

@fairlanefastback

So the rumors are moving in the Cell direction?


Where is the Drooling icons, please?

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retired

@AmigaBlitter
Several posts back, for the 'mere' price of only 6 thousand dollars. You buying one yet? :-/

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@wegster

No Scott, really. I hope for an economic version of the board.


BTW, 3 years ago some companies promised affordable Cell boards for 400$. I wonder if any of these boards are available today.

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retired

@AmigaBlitter

Yes, it's called a PlayStation 3, which is why HPC companies sell clusters of PS3s bundled with Linux-based x86 workstations. They're not as capable as current Cell-based hardware, but they do allow affordable (even for the average Joe) development of HPC solutions based on Cell.

@fairlanefastback

What were the roadblocks again? Apart from reluctance on Hyperion's part, the only two I've heard are licensing and distribution and direct access to hardware. The first isn't an issue, as you don't have to license anything (although it's an option if you want to make things easier), and Sony places no restrictions on distribution of third-party operating systems. The second could result in performance problems, but it's certainly not a roadblock.

_________________
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@Trev

Quote:

What were the roadblocks again? Apart from reluctance on Hyperion's part, the only two I've heard are licensing and distribution and direct access to hardware. The first isn't an issue, as you don't have to license anything (although it's an option if you want to make things easier), and Sony places no restrictions on distribution of third-party operating systems. The second could result in performance problems, but it's certainly not a roadblock.

Well its funny you mention licensing because I remember some taking the position that it was an issue. Below is one thread that comes to mind:

http://tinyurl.com/dc9gzf

I'd prefer you were right. Because if PS3 could be a viable platform I'd certainly welcome that as a good "ambitious project".

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 23-Apr-2009 at 08:38 PM.

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Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

without big changes in AmigaOS (multicore support and other things) I don't see any reason of using a Cell...

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A1200/020+68882 - 6 MB RAM - AmigaOS 3.0

Home Recording Audio

@fairlanefastback

I think there are two separte licensing issues at work: Sony to Hyperion (probably not necessary) and Amiga, Inc. to Hyperion (as the SAM400ep and Pegasos 2 releases show, Hyperion probably gives !@#% all about their Amiga, Inc. license ).

If Hyperion wants to be "paid" to do the port, then I'm not sure how they'll proceed. Customers will eventually pay, but not until a product is physically in their hands (or virtually, depending on the distribution model). Sony certainly won't pay. Why would AmigaOS even be on their radar?

Re: direct hardware access, people just need to get over it. The only folks that need to care are systems programmers. Application developers and users don't interact with the hardware. If someone gets upset because they lose their transpartent windows, well, I can't argue against that other than to say I always turn off the eye candy.

Virtualization is at the core of every data center consolidation, green computing, and cloud computing initiative. Microsoft, VMware, and Xen have all but commodotized the virtualization stack, and it won't be long before hypervisors are standardized and made a standard part of every platform. It's time to move forward, yeah?

We'd still have direct access to the Cell hardware, though. spe.resource, anyone?

_________________
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more borked A1200/MBX1200z/Indivision
A500/clockport/RRNet
A600/A603

@andres

The original Amiga exec had "multicore" support in the form of coordinated access to coprocessors. Conceptually, using the Cell (or a network chipset or a video chipset) is no different.

EDIT: Good example: the Amiga had two CIAs. From an abstract point of view, accessing two SPEs is the same thing.

Last edited by Trev on 23-Apr-2009 at 10:19 PM.

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Sam440ep-flex 733 MHz/1 GB RAM/Radeon 9250/AmigaOS4.1 Update 2
borked A1200/Blizzard1260+SCSI-IV/Z4+MediatorZIV/Deneb/Voodoo3/CatweaselMk3
more borked A1200/MBX1200z/Indivision
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@Trev

I contacted this company, but after a few replies i never heard other info from them.
http://www.cellsupercomputer.com/

One of the link and other search lead me to an ex amigans, an engineer, owner of the walker and other amiga prototype:
He is one of the engineer that have the necessary knowledge to create Cell Boards, imho.
http://www.blachford.info/computer/Cell/Cell0_v2.html
Would be great to have him again in the Amiga team.

http://www.blachford.info/computer/walker/walker.html
I swapped some e-mail to him. I think he still an amigans.

Last edited by AmigaBlitter on 23-Apr-2009 at 10:35 PM.
Last edited by AmigaBlitter on 23-Apr-2009 at 10:33 PM.
Last edited by AmigaBlitter on 23-Apr-2009 at 10:32 PM.

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retired

@AmigaBlitter

I am so glad they never actually produced the Walker, paritularly at a time when the insanely successful iMac was right around the corner. Of course, the Amiga would have been no worse off than it is today, and all the classic fans (myself included) would have one more system to tinker with.

EDIT: Further example: programming Cell SPEs would be a lot like programming multiple coppers, with the programmer being responsible for making sure they don't step on or stall each other.

Last edited by Trev on 23-Apr-2009 at 10:49 PM.

_________________
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more borked A1200/MBX1200z/Indivision
A500/clockport/RRNet
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@Trev

Quote:

Further example: programming Cell SPEs would be a lot like programming multiple coppers, with the programmer being responsible for making sure they don't step on or stall each other.

I think this would be not a big issue: many Cell programmers and others stated that the Cell is similar ot it's structured like the old Amiga Custom Chip. so, programming the Cell will be familiar to many.

Last edited by AmigaBlitter on 23-Apr-2009 at 10:59 PM.

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retired

@AmigaBlitter

There you go. And the Cell's PPU isn't much different from a standard PowerPC chip (where AmigaOS doesn't support a feature, it could probably be ignored). If Hyperion did decide to support Cell, the design would hopefully support a number of different usage patterns, allowing the application developer to use whatever was appropriate for the problem.

_________________
Sam440ep-flex 733 MHz/1 GB RAM/Radeon 9250/AmigaOS4.1 Update 2
borked A1200/Blizzard1260+SCSI-IV/Z4+MediatorZIV/Deneb/Voodoo3/CatweaselMk3
more borked A1200/MBX1200z/Indivision
A500/clockport/RRNet
A600/A603

@Trev

Quote:

Further example: programming Cell SPEs would be a lot like programming multiple coppers, with the programmer being responsible for making sure they don't step on or stall each other.

Another example: Once upon a time there were Amiga expansion cards called Transputer cards. These cards had 4 Digital Signal Processors (DSPs) on them. I remember they were around for the Amiga 2000. I don't know what they were ever used for, but I know they were used with Amiga OS 2.1. Someone knew how to get Amiga OS to use these 4 DSPs along with the CPU and all of the custom chips.

Amiga History Guide

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@DoodooHead

Too bad the Transputer cards never took off or did any of them even come out? I remember reading in Amiga magazines at the time that Aladdin 4D was going to take advantage of them for superfast rendering.

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@DiscreetFX

I remember watching Wil Wheaton and Kiki Stockhammer (*sigh*) talking about the Screamer. Was that discontinued in favor of the Flyer and porting Lightwave 3D to Windows NT x86 and Alpha?

_________________
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borked A1200/Blizzard1260+SCSI-IV/Z4+MediatorZIV/Deneb/Voodoo3/CatweaselMk3
more borked A1200/MBX1200z/Indivision
A500/clockport/RRNet
A600/A603

@Trev

Screamer evolved to a full workstation that became able to run lightwave without Amiga.

The next step was screamernet that mader it possible to use cheaper HW to accelerate Amiga & Windows Lightwave rendering.

Screamernet is alive & well. Most likely Amiga compatible version is not up-to-date but the older should be usable. So, we do not need powerfull AOS4 CPU for rendering.

Anyone using the Amiga compatible screamernet?

Last edited by KimmoK on 24-Apr-2009 at 06:29 AM.

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// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?