Howdy,
I have seen the adverts of the new overclocked SAM models to 800 MHz. People before said that the SAM and 667 MHz with AmigaOS 4 felt faster than AmigaOS 4 on microAmigaOne. Does that mean that now SAM Flex 800MHz model is really faster than my almost 5 year old microAmigaOne. If it is noticeably faster it may be worth buying SAM as a second machine (backup AmigaOS 4 machine). Does someone have the both models and can say by his/hers own experience or at the shows?

Thank you for your answers.
Regards.

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@drHirudo

It's possible it could be faster, yes. Most likely in term of memory-intensive tasks. I don't have either hardware to test this, but i would believe SAM is faster, especially the 800Mhz version..

I will leave the conclusion to be made by those who have the hardwares to test this up against..

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@drHirudo

You can at least have more graphic card memory on the Sam440flex.
am440flex has USB2..0 vs AmigaOne whit USB1.1
Memory is faster on Sam440flex then on AmigaOne.

So there are some benefits in the Sam440flex over MicroA1 G3.
G4 CPU’s have Altivec, G3 and Sam440 does not have Altivec.

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@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

You can at least have more graphic card memory on the Sam440flex.

Through a PCI card?

I thought it would have been AGP, since that's faster. But even AGP is out of date now.

Quote:

am440flex has USB2..0 vs AmigaOne whit USB1.1

Really? Can it finally beat it, is there a driver now?

@Hypex

Driver is actually developped and I think the actual USB 1.1 is also improved actually because new problems came with usb 1.1 with the SAM version (some USB hardware not work on SAM and work on AONE).

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@drHirudo

I think the lack of an L2 cache is the biggest drawback of the Sam's CPU. I have 1MB L2 cache on my 750GX CPU on my Micro. It will be interesting to see benchmarks comparing them once the Sam Flex 800MHz version is out in user hands.

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@Hypex

if you have 256mb gfx mem, and a fast GPU.

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Anyone know where a Sam440-Flex system can be purchased that way I can compare the two

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@drHirudo

Here's a quick comparison:

SamFlex has a faster memory bus
SamFlex has the option to use a faster graphic card than the one integrated in the MicroA1
SamFlex use sata by default and MicroA1 only with an addon card
SamFlex has USB 2 in contrast with 1.1 on the MicroA1
MicroA1 can use a G4 CPU module so may have altivec and faster cpu (if you can get one)
MicroA1 with the stock G3 CPU have a larger cache

In conclusion in general usare SamFlex should be faster in many ways but in calculation intensive tasks where all reside almost on the cpu the micro has something more thanks to a larger cache/faster cpu module (optional).

@Murasame

So the L2 cache is a big plus on the Micro. On the other hand the microAmigaOne is not overclocked and I know since years that overclocked systems tend to have shorter life than the non overclocked. Also the overclocked CPU consume more energy (per executed instruction), but this I know from PC friends who overclocked (and sometimes damaged) their systems.
The SAM will come handy as a backup system, the more powerfull GFX chipset as an option is a big plus (adds power to the system), so may be the SAM 800MHz with the best GFX card which have drivers for AmigaOS 4 may be is the most powerful Amiga compatible system at the market till today?

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@drHirudo

Quote:

So the L2 cache is a big plus on the Micro.

Not necessarily. Poorly optimized software (frequent cache misses) won't see a benefit, and keeping context switches to a minimum (fewer running tasks) could help. Ultimatley, software optimized for the smaller cache will perform better with the faster memory bus.

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more borked A1200/MBX1200z/Indivision
A500/clockport/RRNet
A600/A603

In my opinion i think that there is not big difference in term of CPU Power from a G3 800 Mhz and the Sam CPU at 800 Mhz.. as Trevor said, there is no optimzed software that could benefit the L2 Cache and maybe there won't be for the next near future.. Btw as already said from others, sam is better compared to the Micro for the ram speed, sata speed, gfx gpu and now also the cpu has the same clock.. so why use or buy a micro ?.. IMHO..

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@drHirudo

Quote:

So the L2 cache is a big plus on the Micro

Well I think that under AOS there aren't many applications optimized for large cache so in general terms the flex is not so underpowered compared to the micro.

Quote:

On the other hand the microAmigaOne is not overclocked and I know since years that overclocked systems tend to have shorter life than the non overclocked. Also the overclocked CPU consume more energy (per executed instruction), but this I know from PC friends who overclocked (and sometimes damaged) their systems.

Yes correct but bear in mind that the flex's cpu is from the embedded market and not stressed like mainstream pc cpus so I don't think that this will shorten his life cycle expecially if you consider that even overclocked it doesn't even need some sort of cooling.

Quote:

...so may be the SAM 800MHz with the best GFX card which have drivers for AmigaOS 4 may be is the most powerful Amiga compatible system at the market till today?

imho yes

@drHirudo

I've got a Micro and a Sam440ep 667mhz. I would say that overall the Sam is easily the better machine. The Radeon 7000 with 32MB is possibly the most significant drawback of the Micro. I'm sure that my micro redraws windows after resize more slowly than the Sam for example.
IMHO if you got yourself the Sam-Flex 800mhz with 1GB RAM and put in at least a Radeon 9250 128MB (personally I'd get a 9000 pro) you wouldn't be using the micro much anymore!

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@Ruud

Extremely good point! Loved that Need we say much more?

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Probably Pegasos 2 G4 1Ghz 1GB DDR-system, ATI Radeon 9250, ESI@Juli PCi-soundcard, all running
AmigaOS 4.1 with latest updates, or a new powerful
Amiga! Fingers crossed!

@drHirudo

"may be is the most powerful Amiga compatible system at the market till today?"

Surely peg2 is currently the fastest AOS4 HW.
But SAM is the fastest (and only) available new HW for AOS4.


The fastest Amiga like system is AROS, especially untill we get AOS4 for powerstation.



In general:

As far as I know, L2 has a big impact in 68k emulation speed, so please, do not overlook it!!!!

We need new embedded or desktop CPUs with L2 cache for AOS4&EUAE ASAP.

Last edited by KimmoK on 16-Apr-2009 at 08:38 PM.

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@KimmoK

Quote:

As far as I know, L2 has a big impact in 68k emulation speed, so please, do not overlook it!!!!

And hopefully that's something Hyperion has kept in mind.

@all

Re: overclocking, it's sketchy because of the way CPU vendors label their devices. In a perfect world, every device would be labeled accurately, but if a vendor knows they can sell 1,000,000 1.2 GHz parts for $$$$$ and 500,000 1.3 GHz parts for $$$, they're probably going to relabel some of those 1.3 GHz parts as 1.2 GHz parts to maximize their profits. Somewhere in there, there's a min/max solution that work's out in the vendor's favor.

So, when you buy that cheaper, slower CPU, you really don't know whether you're getting a part rated at that speed or rated at a higher speed and relabeled. That's why everyone keeps such a close eye on manufacturing locations, dates, batches, etc. and why ACube can safely clock a 677 MHz CPU at 800 MHz.

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Sam440ep-flex 733 MHz/1 GB RAM/Radeon 9250/AmigaOS4.1 Update 2
borked A1200/Blizzard1260+SCSI-IV/Z4+MediatorZIV/Deneb/Voodoo3/CatweaselMk3
more borked A1200/MBX1200z/Indivision
A500/clockport/RRNet
A600/A603

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

if you have 256mb gfx mem, and a fast GPU.

What about an A1 with a 256MB DDR AGP gfx card? Would the Sam still beat that?

@drHirudo

Not sure about that comparison

but I ordered the 800Mhz Flex recently, when it arrives I'll let you know if it is quicker than my 667Mhz SAM...

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@All: I just want let you know, that I wrote an article for the next issue of "Amiga Future" and compared ALL AmigaOS4.1 systems with benchmarks (including SAMflex). So this will maybe an interesting read for you

P.S.: Thank you Trevor ans Johan for helping me!

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