@koft Quote:

Or they're just trying to dump stock and pull out of the game. Who's buying sams while we're all waiting for ever to get specs and pricing for the A1X1K?

You almost sound like you're hoping the Sam will die? IMHO, no need to wait for X1000 info, as there is always "something better" around the corner in technology. So you look at the Sam440, and if it does what you want at a price you can accept, then you buy it, otherwise not.

Given the likely expense of an X1000 (probably twice the price of a Sam440), there will likely still be many potential buyers (for both new & second hand) Sam440s after the X1000 is out, so one can always consider selling a Sam440 later.

Sam440 is a nice machine, not super powerful, but fast enough to do the majority of what I want. The X1000 will be overkill for my needs (excluding maybe video playback), although I might still get one...

BTW, considering RELEC's "RED ONE" is apparently based on the non-Flex Sam440, the price reduction is no-doubt to get rid of their remaining stock (due to lack of new non-Flex Sams) before replacing it with a newer Flex-based one (if they don't already sell such a system, which I thought they did).

@Leo Quote:

if your machine doesn't have the raw power to do something, it won't do it.

Be careful when selling "we need raw power" to Amiga/MorphOS users. They might take you at your word, and buy an x86 system instead (OS X isn't bad).

Last edited by ChrisH on 09-Mar-2010 at 08:17 PM.

_________________
Author of the PortablE programming language.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

@ChrisH

Quote:

You almost sound like you're hoping the Sam will die?

I'm not saying that at all. What I'm pointing out is that Sam sales could be suffering because folks who might buy their product are waiting to compare price and specs with the a1x1k which haven't been released yet. In a further post I comment that it's not fair to ACube, this current situation. I hope ACube is successful, after all, they actually delivered a product to the community.

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@Leo

Yaaawwwwnnn !

Well, I must answer anyway since you want to play this usual game of yours (with time, we are used to play with you).

Optimization is what I call the Amiga style. It has always existed, it is what Fab is doing for MorphOS to give MorphOS users (even MorphOS users / whinners like you) tools that can fly on your machine (MPlayer, OWB with Flash and HTML5, MAME, etc...)

Optimisation is what HunoPPC realises when he optimises his games, testing them on AmigaOnes and Sam440/Flex.

Optimisation can be realized thanks to tools like Corto's Hyeronimous, allowing developpers to track down the possible flaws in their code eating CPU power.

This is what I call the Amiga style since from the beginning, Amiga developpers' goal was to optimize their code to take full advantage of the machine for which they were developping. This is still the case and what makes Amiga programs so much appreciated.

Now, to anwser your question (of which you have already the answer but wants me to point out), just go on Relec's site and you'll find the answer.

Well, Leo, it's always nice to see you are still the same, a great pleasure

_________________
PowerMac G5 2,7Ghz - 2GB - Radeon 9650 - MorphOS 3.14
AmigaONE X1000, 2GB, Sapphire Radeon HD 7700
FPGA Replay + DB 68060 at 85Mhz

@Rob

Quote:

Rob wrote: @koft Quote: Who's buying sams while we're all waiting for ever to get specs and pricing for the A1X1K? I've noticed at least few people here who have bought a new Sam since details of the X1000 were released.

yup. as a matter of fact between the announcement of the X1000, the settlement between hyperion and amiga, inc., and the steady progress of amiga os development over the past year, i finally decided to pull the trigger on getting a SAM just a few weeks ago. it will not only be my first SAM -- it will be my first amiga.

i'm hugely excited despite the lack of processing power compared with modern systems. we're well kitted-out in that respect anyway -- a sun ultra 24 and lenovo w500 -- so i don't need a system that is fast. i just want one that is responsive. and for that the SAM fits the bill nicely given what i'll be doing with it.

whether folks grab a SAM or an X1000 when it ships, the main thing should be to keep this community's positive momentum going, and hopefully, attract a few new users (like me) along the way. price cuts by the likes of RELEC only help on that last point.

-- eliyahu

Last edited by eliyahu on 09-Mar-2010 at 10:07 PM.

_________________
"Physical reality is consistent with universal laws. When the laws do not operate, there is no reality. All of this is unreal."

@eliyahu

Great... :)

@eliyahu

Quote:

it will not only be my first SAM -- it will be my first amiga.

You know I find that really fascinating - Us long term Amigans who are willing to take the risk and back the Hyperion horse do so because we were hooked from the time of the Amiga classics. There's both a nostalgic element - that OS4 satisfies by being familiar but improved - and also a shared passion for technical simplicity (in a good way) and efficiency - The Amiga way.

But for an outsider to take that same risk - wow.

_________________
A600 OS3.1 ACA620 | '030 A1200 OS3.5 | µA1-C 750GX OS4.1 | SAM460 OS4.1 | '040 A3000 OS2.1 | Christian Aid |

@steril606

Quote:

steril606 wrote: @Metalheart You avatar is extremely unpleasant to my eyes.. Using something else would be easier on my eyes. And would probably not look less 'cool'. Well, just nitpicking (while we are at it)... ;)

I love that avatar

@Jamie_S

Quote:

But for an outsider to take that same risk - wow.

It's probably not true.

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@koft

Quote:

koft wrote: @Jamie_S Quote: But for an outsider to take that same risk - wow. It's probably not true.

hey, that hurts!

believe it or not there are some things that might attract someone new to the amiga platform. for me it was the gorgeous interface of amiga OS, the use of system-wide scripting with REXX (always been a fan), and just finding something so, well, different from the environments i work with now. i run opensolaris on our home machines, and the wife uses windows.

but for years now, especially as the old mac OS gave way to OSX, i've been looking for something different. i looked at haiku, i looked at bringing my old macs out of storage, but the former didn't have the ease-of-use i was looking for, and the latter doesn't have a modern web browser -- nor the responsiveness i was seeking. after watching various videos on youtube, looking at screenshots, and reading through forums like this one (and amiga.org and amigans.net) the amiga seemed so personal, and well laid-out, so customizable that it was worth a try.

look, the SAM is very expensive if you're looking at price/performance, and the amiga OS does lack many of the modern productivity applications people expect with a modern computing platform. but: it is a whole new world for me to explore. i'm not big on FPSs, i've always loved retro-gaming, so that's well covered. and beyond that i just want something fun. yes, the SAM is a rather pricey way of getting it, but i don't want another machine for work; i just want one to enjoy. the X1000 would be too expensive for my purposes. the SAM is just enough for now.

and to prove it, i'll make certain to take a photo and post here once all the components arrive.

-- eliyahu

Last edited by eliyahu on 10-Mar-2010 at 01:26 AM.

_________________
"Physical reality is consistent with universal laws. When the laws do not operate, there is no reality. All of this is unreal."

@bitman

Quote:

by bitman on 9-Mar-2010 18:24:47 @K-L According to the interview witch TrevorD in Amiga Future - the price you mention is also the price plus/minus TrevorD expects.

The early hinted price is always lower than the release price. My guess it will end up at $2,500-$3,000 by launch. 1500EUR is currently 2,040USD.

Quote:

eliyahu wrote: @Rob Quote: Rob wrote: @koft [quote]Who's buying sams while we're all waiting for ever to get specs and pricing for the A1X1K? I've noticed at least few people here who have bought a new Sam since details of the X1000 were released.

yup. as a matter of fact between the announcement of the X1000, the settlement between hyperion and amiga, inc., and the steady progress of amiga os development over the past year, i finally decided to pull the trigger on getting a SAM just a few weeks ago. it will not only be my first SAM -- it will be my first amiga.

-- eliyahu
[/quote]

congrats on your new Sam ...it's a real treat and lots of fun with the new Update 1 for OS4.1....make sure to try out Blender if you want to mess with 3D stuff and give glUAE or RunInUAE a go to as you can play some great classic games just fine on the Same flex

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c64-2sids, A1000, A1200T-060@50(finally working!),A4000-CSMKIII
! My Master Miggies- Amiga 1000 & AmigaOne X1000 !
mancave-ramblings
X1000 I BELIEVE

I've said this before, and I'll say it again. This is ACube's to "The Red One F" up.
The X1000 announcement and partial reveal has people sitting on the fence as to what system has the most value for money. If not people, then it must be just me!!
When we finally get ALL the specs and price on the X1000 I will be ready to buy one or the other.

There is a lot in a name, even the AmigaOne name. Die-hards don't care but generally people do (I don't want to discuss it). ACube should go into an official AmigaOne rebranding phase either now or on the X1000's release. They should publicise their desire to fit into an AmigaOne branding model line-up. I propose a model re-designation to either X440 or, if placed in an Amiga 500 like case(which I would drool over), an X500 branding. If the X must stand for Xena, one wonders if they can't just license the design of the Xena for inclusion on their FPGA to standardise it as a custom chip for the AmigaOS4 platform.

_________________
Leo Nigro, CTO Commodore USA, LLC
Opinions expressed are my own and not those of C= USA.
Commodore/AMIGA "Beautiful, High-Performance, Home Computers for Creativity and Entertainment."

Quote:

Optimization is what I call the Amiga style. It has always existed, it is what Fab is doing for MorphOS to give MorphOS users (even MorphOS users / whinners like you) tools that can fly on your machine (MPlayer, OWB with Flash and HTML5, MAME, etc...)

I'm sorry but Fab surely didn't optimize Webkit... He's done a great job integrating it into MUI/MorphOS, and creating needed components though (and before you start whining at my comments, I said "did a great job", and I mean it). There's no optimization at all. Webkit did a great work on their engine, that's it. But making it work on Amiga won't magically make it run faster...

Quote:

This is what I call the Amiga style since from the beginning, Amiga developpers' goal was to optimize their code to take full advantage of the machine for which they were developping.

This has been ages since people stopped doing so... If you exclude Altivec stuff, there's no special optimizations... simply because hardware stopped being proprietary. Unless you're coding some console stuff (and even though...) you don't optimize for a machine. No, OWB hasn't been optimized for Pegasos and/or MacMini. It runs faster on the MacMini though, because it's faster... And there's no way Fab could have made it run on the Pegasos 2 run as fast as on the MacMini. Even by... "optimizing" his code...

I'm just pointing at people saying Amiga is/was better than anything else, when it's/was clearly not. And I'm not planning to change. I like the Amga, use/used it, but I won't make it better than anything when it's not just because I like it. I won't make its flaw become features, and so on... The only way to improve it is to admit the flaws, not to hide them...

Was nice to talk to you too btw... as usual I would add ;)

PS: the good thing about forums is not to have to look on the web to find some information... Would be funny if every answer got the same "go to the website, goto google, you don't need to ask here" :)

Last edited by Leo on 10-Mar-2010 at 08:47 AM.
Last edited by Leo on 10-Mar-2010 at 08:44 AM.

_________________
http://www.warpdesign.fr/

@Leo

Quote:

Leo wrote: ... if your machine doesn't have the raw power to do something, it won't do it. ...

Hmmmmmm - not entirely true.

Keyword:
Raytracing.

I can remember when "Reflections" came out.
I designed a scene consisting of a yellow/black chequered board and a ball with texture and material "glass" floating a few millimeters above the board. Added three different coloured lamps at verious positions to illuminate the scene and defined a camera position.
Then I let my standard A500 with 68000 cpu at 7.14 mHz calculate the scene.

It took nearly 24 hours - but it worked - and the result was stunning...
(but that was back in early 1989...)

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Ciao

Dandy
__________________________________________
If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him.
He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him!
(Albert Einstein)

@Dandy

Interesting price.

Sam is a fast machine. OS4 is fast. I see things are improving update after update. I think update 2 will speed up the os in may fronts.

_________________
retired

@koft

Quote:

koft wrote: @ChrisH ... What I'm pointing out is that Sam sales could be suffering because folks who might buy their product are waiting to compare price and specs with the a1x1k which haven't been released yet.

I made my decision not to buy a SAM when I saw what it offers for the money compared to what e.g. the YDL PowerStation offered for a few bucks more.
Back then I did not even know about Hyperion working on a "MAP", which later turned out to be the AmigaOne X1000.

Before the MAP was unveiled I always voted for the YDL PowerStation being supported by AOS.

Of course the SAM has a right of existance.
It perfectly covers the needs of the low end - although I admittedly have some stomach ache because of its price/performance ratio.
But hey - if people are comfortable with it and are ready to pay the price - then O.K. ...

But please don't condemn people like me for having the need for more power.
You - the SAM buyers - will also benefit from that demand for more power.
Be it in form of price reductions for the SAMs or in the form of development of the OS and more capable applications (dvd authoring, perhaps?)...

Quote:

koft wrote: In a further post I comment that it's not fair to ACube, this current situation.

I bet that Acube already have an idea of the X1000 price, given that they knew about the project before the public.

Quote:

koft wrote: I hope ACube is successful, after all, they actually delivered a product to the community.

I hop both - Acube and AEon - are successful.
That way I could see a chance for the Amiga platform to recover a little bit from the past events and the for the OS and apps to catch up to todays standards...

_________________
Ciao

Dandy
__________________________________________
If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him.
He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him!
(Albert Einstein)

I'm pleased, I dont own a os4 machine but plan to at the end of this year. I'm just waiting to see the final specs and price of the AmigaONE X1000 to make my decision, because if it is too much then at least at the same time it should be quite easy to find a cheap Sam as companies try and sell remaining stock and the secondhand market should have a few as well.

_________________
AmigaNG, YouTube, LeaveReality Studio

@Dandy

Quote:

Dandy wrote: Keyword: Raytracing.

Raytracing is a bad example, because it has nothing to do with raw power in a sense that even the slowest machine can do raytracing, it just takes forever. The raw power just makes it go faster, but is not required.

@Britelite

Quote:

Britelite wrote: @Dandy Quote: Dandy wrote: Keyword: Raytracing. ... The raw power just makes it go faster, but is not required.

Isn't that valid for all?
(As this is what I was tryinf to say)

_________________
Ciao

Dandy
__________________________________________
If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him.
He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him!
(Albert Einstein)

@Dandy

Quote:

Dandy wrote: @Britelite Quote: ... The raw power just makes it go faster, but is not required. Isn't that valid for all? (As this is what I was tryinf to say)

Nope. For example when watching a movie you probably want it to run at the correct speed, and not show 1 frame every 10 seconds. Same goes for playing games or doing anything else realtime. In those cases the raw power really counts, and if you haven't got it then you haven't. In raytracing (or anything else non-realtime) the only limit is your own patience :)