@Fab

Quote:

- high resolution videos (1080p H264 might be doable on this kind of machine, with a not too crippled player or operating system) - many emulators like MAME (ever tried more recent games like ridge racer, virtua racing and co?), MESS, some N64 emulator i never released for speed reasons, ... - rendering/computing programs like mencoder, blender, any raytracers you can think of - web browsing and Flash plugin in particular (though there are other ways to optimize it first) - more demanding games (for instance, latest UFO AI version is quite heavy), ...

did you ever use OSX on a G5?
It has never played an SWF with Adobe player and optimized video drivers with a decend speed.. and also with my Geforce Ultra.. so don't expect too much..

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@opi

Quote:

opi wrote: @drHirudo Quote: I think new PPC accelerators for classic Amgias will generate more interest than MorphOS for YADM (Yet Another Discontinued Mac). Can I play a guessing game, too? YADM will sell more OS licenses than X1000.

To be able to do more correct approximation you must know the exact price of X1000!

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@samo79

Quote:

Ya I see your point Fab, but sometimes it looks like an urban legend that all OS4 software are just a "quick port" or isn't optimized, take xMame for example, it use SDL but it's fast enough on an AmigaOne and you can play "recent" games at 40 and more FPS, it's not that bad ... I can say the same on many other "not optimized" software ...

So it finally supports overlay then?

That's pretty "must have" feature for a program, that needs to be able to output graphics at any resolution / pixel ratio.

(Last time I checked it was still missing, but probably this has been added since then)

@drHirudo

North of 1500 pounds.

I just checked, http://allegro.pl/item1156045180_power_mac_g5_2_3_dual_1gb_ram_160gb_sd.html
1500 PLN, at current exchange rate that's $480. So, in the worst case scenario you can buy four G5 machines for a price of new X1000.

I understand that you prefer OS4 way of development, I think MorphOS way is more practical. Old Macs are still in bigger quantities that anything Amiga and are build better than anything we got. I have hard times getting "old and not supported Macs" as an insult from community that lived off Amiga 1200 for so many years.

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@afxgroup

Quote:

Quote: - high resolution videos (1080p H264 might be doable on this kind of machine, with a not too crippled player or operating system) - many emulators like MAME (ever tried more recent games like ridge racer, virtua racing and co?), MESS, some N64 emulator i never released for speed reasons, ... - rendering/computing programs like mencoder, blender, any raytracers you can think of - web browsing and Flash plugin in particular (though there are other ways to optimize it first) - more demanding games (for instance, latest UFO AI version is quite heavy), ... did you ever use OSX on a G5? It has never played an SWF with Adobe player and optimized video drivers with a decend speed.. and also with my Geforce Ultra.. so don't expect too much..

I think the point was "Expect more than on any hardware that MorphOS currently supports"

@Fab

Just a little question.. why a lot of developers use SDL for the games if it is so crappy?
IMHO it is very useless to change SDL to use MUI for a game just because we can say "wow! it use mui!"
but this is a developer taste of course.. but on linux platforms i don't see so many games that use QT or GTK for the gui.

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@afxgroup

Quote:

IMHO it is very useless to change SDL to use MUI for a game just because we can say "wow! it use mui!"

This is a discussion about style. MorphOS developers do want native UI, .library and not .so, drawing via intutition and not via X11.

Port having MUI interface means that developer respects its target OS and went further than ./configure ; make

Last edited by opi on 26-Jul-2010 at 11:31 AM.

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@opi

this is a valid point when you create apllications not games. On Windows you never see games that use an explorer like-gui into the game.
Same for linux. 90% of linux games (like UFO, Freespace and so on) use SDL. Anyone know why?

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@opi
Quote:

...sell more licence...

yes to already existing MOS users (aren't they HW locked?)

Last edited by DAX on 26-Jul-2010 at 11:35 AM.

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@afxgroup

Uh, I think the point was about integration with OS not SDL itself. SDL is simple and portable, hence big chunk of games is being developed with it. But it comes with a price every wrapper carries, it's slower than native. So while it does not affect current computers with CPU cycles to spare it will be painful obvious on Efika or low end Sam.

Also SDL being "AMOS Basic" means it attracts anyone who can draw two lines so most of the games developed with it are quite subpar.

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@opi

You are not including the price of MorphOS in your equation. As always the MorphOS defendants are missing something. But you are not just missing something. You skipped a lot in your wrong equation. Read on...

The Amiga X1000 will come with AmigaOS 4 bundled, 500 GB HD (instead of the 160 GB in your link), 2 GB RAM (instead of 1 GB in your link) and other differences which I am not going to hunt one by one.

Another fact not included in your equation is that the AmigaOne X1000 for this price is BRAND NEW. Here a new car can cost 20 times more than an old car. It also depends - was this machine used by a smoker? Was it extensively used (never turned off) or used at rare situations? For the new computer Amiga X1000, there are not such probabilities - it is BRAND NEW.

Yet another fact with the purchase of brand new AmigaOne X1000 is that your are paying not only physically for the machine components. You also pay for the research, the development and the advertising of the machine. You also pay for possible new Amiga machines. With purchase of this old Mac G4 you pay to the previous owner to buy something else. You are not paying for possible new development of MorphOS or PPC Mac. You pay for the development of MorphOS if you decide to purchase license (separately from the price you listed).

Edit:
I bough brand new Amiga A1200 in late 1999 from Vesalia (Magic Pack). For me it was something new because I used A600 with 2 GB HD, 2MB RAM and ROM 3.0. The AGA was a whole new experience for me. The A1200 is a nice machine and served me well until 2003, when I bought A4000.

Last edited by drHirudo on 26-Jul-2010 at 11:41 AM.

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@opi

Who cares? X-1000 is an system not build for the "amiga mass market". It's build just for very small quanitities to show the people whats possible.

For me the "Amiga" market is going to split in three directions:-
- one for people who are interested in new Hardware -> OS4.x
- one for people who would like to use old apple hardware avaible in limited quantities -> MorphOS
- and finally one for people who would love to use x86 Hardware -> AROS

I personally will stick with OS4.

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@Fab

About Mame

That's true, for certain games 60 FPS is mandatory, Mame isn't exactly fast and optimized, this because it is mainly developed on x86 when the CPU power is not a problem.

Luckly we have other emulators as alternative, GnGeo for example give 60 FPS with all games also on relative slow Sam440 ...

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@cHaOs667

Quote:

- one for people who would like to use old apple hardware avaible in limited quantities -> MorphOS

To be fair, I think it's less about using Mac hardware than it is about utilising a huge resource of potentially unwanted PowerPC hardware. There are literally millions of PPC Macs out there going to waste.

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@cHaOs667

Quote:

and finally one for people who would love to use x86 Hardware -> AROS

Not only x86, but x86_64, PPC and ARM is in development.

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@damocles

Quote:

damocles wrote: @cHaOs667 Quote: and finally one for people who would love to use x86 Hardware -> AROS Not only x86, but x86_64, PPC and ARM is in development.

Are these options cheaper than the YADMs?

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@Jupp3

AmigaOS4 have overlay support since 2006

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@drHirudo

OK, so add 111.11 Euro or 150 Euro. You can still get three G5 with three licenses. I don't care for BRAND NEW. I really don't. In last years I got IBM server, a G4 Apple laptop and Thinkpad laptop, all second hand. Quality hardware is not biodegradable, it won't just disappear. I trust more mass produced hardware from Apple than small runs of X1000 from company without track record. BRAND NEW is not a selling point for me.

Quote:

Yet another fact with the purchase of brand new AmigaOne X1000 is that your are paying not only physically for the machine components. You also pay for the research, the development and the advertising of the machine. You also pay for possible new Amiga machines.

I'm a customer. I don't really think that business plan of Hyperion or MorphOS team is much of my concern. MorphOS guys want 150 Euro for their work, that's all. If they are going to fail and quit working on MorphOS I don't really see that as problem for me. It's just a hobby.

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So much for OS4-user not invading blue topics ;)



@DAX

Quote:

DAX wrote: @opi Quote: ...sell more licence... yes to already existing MOS users (aren't they HW locked?)

And who do you think is gonna buy those x1000s ? And will these people be in any way able to reuse their old SAM, Peg2 or Teron version of OS4 ?

OS4 is just as HW-locked as MorphOS, just by different means. OS4-users can reuse one Peg2 install on another, just like some MorphOS-user could excahnge their Peg1 with another Peg1...

There is no point in keeping your OS4 copy or selling it seperatly as every OS4-capable HW (except Peg2) allready comes with it's own copy.


But "financing" development:

I rather have all my "MorphOS-money" end up in the hands of the MorphOS-team to actually further the SW instead of wasting it on born-dead-brain-fart-boat-anchor-HW .....

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@opi

I also bought second hand PowerBook in September 2009. One month after the purchase, the battery died. Now every time I turn it on I have to save the new time. The MacOS install also broke and I can not search for files for some reason. I don't have the time to reinstall Tiger on it (having to backup all on it before that). But this is not that bad. I actually bought it to try MorphOS on it, but it did not come almost a year now. The MorphOS release for eMacs did not raise the eMacs price. So actually I have to admit, I made a mistake relying on the rumors that
MorphOS for Powerbook will be out soon (Back in 2009). So for the impulsive buyers of G5 Macs - don't be too fast. There are plenty of them and their price may actually reduce by the time the MorphOS for it is released.

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