@Daedalus

Quote:

Daedalus wrote: You're trying to enforce your opinion as fact there, stating things about "natural continuation", yet you do not accept that this is just an opinion, and that many, many people here are of the opinion that a totally unrelated and incompatible OS for PC hardware is not a natural continuation. Think about it, what do you expect?

I apologize if I did not express myself properly in English.
What I write above is my opinion and nothing else!

I am an ordinary "observers" to what is happening. I have nothing to do with it. What I write is an opinion that I formed myself to be just an ordinary simple "observers".

I expect that my opinion is accepted. However, it may please be discussed but no war.

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@pavlor

Quote:

Please, see my post 213 in this thread...

I have read it!
My statement as is no statement there is an opinion. I know what the agreement between Hyperion and AmiagInc contains about and I know what the Amiga can not say. I pull it off and go straight to what I think it is without any coercion from the agreement.

Last edited by linnar on 27-Jan-2011 at 12:22 PM.

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@vox

What I write is just my opinion and what I believe.

If lots of people would buy Commendore products were a small percentage of them to immerse themselves in the names and eventually find the Amiga clones. Some of them may prefer clones. Therefore, the number supporting such AmigaOS4.
it is usual with such spin-off effects.

You must lvea 60 years, how old are you now?

_________________
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@linnar

I'm sorry, are you suggesting that one needs to be 60 years old in order to use the AmigaOS?

@terminills

Well, you've learned well from the master. Nicely executed baiting of the community combined with just enough deniability that nobody clicks the report button. I take special note of the subtle digs against particular platforms, like this one directed against AROS:

Quote:

why not do it yourself? It's easy enough. =]

Or this slightly less subtle one:

Quote:

I'm curious now that's been a year since Dave Haynie has voiced his opinion on the X1000... I wonder what he thinks about it as of now. =]

I assume =] is your 'sneer' emoticon.

Anyway, before continuing, kindly consider how you would react if some of the more aggressive members on this forum moved onto your one and started posting comments like these against CUSA. And believe me, there's plenty of material to draw on.

@T-J

Ummm that wasn't a dig at Aros ... that was why don't you put together a linux hosted Aros yourself. It's really not that hard. I personally run icaros that I merged with linux hosted Aros.

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"AROS is prolly illegal ~ Evert Carton" intentionally quoted out of context for dramatic effect

@linnar

I am 32 years old. Amiga user since teens.

Amiga clone is computer that can run AmigaOS natively but was made by other company but Commodore (real one) such as DraCo.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiga#Amiga_hardware_clones

PowerPC boards fall under unofficial, but not cloned (or simply AmigaOS4 sys)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiga_models_and_variants#Unofficial_Amiga_compatible_models
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiga#AmigaOS_4_systems

AmigaOne and X1000 thus, are official Amigas, you may like it or not (like I dislike
that CUSA got the Amiga name for their integrated PeeCees)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiga_models_and_variants#PowerPC-based_.22Amiga.22_models

Because it cannot run AmigaOS nativly, CUSA Amigas will NOT be there even as clones. Worst "Clone" are the CUSA machines, they copy design (A500/A1200 models if ever done or 2012) but cannot run any AOS nativly. Current A1000-4000 line is just a name and logo copycat and thats exactly all right CUSA has.

So, clone yourself, clone (or clown?)

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@terminills

Fatman2021 says he doesn't use AROS because it lacks an office suite. You, in reply to that comment, tell him to do it himself.

Reminds me of the exaggerated DIY attitude people pretend to have when mocking the Open Source community.

But you still haven't responded to the main point - what would you do if the more aggressive AW.net members posted similar comments, along with links to threads rubbishing CUSA and its executives?

@T-J

No if you looked at the video Pascal linked you would see what I was talking about. =]

Ps. as for me mocking opensource you might want to take a look at my history.

http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=32971&forum=28&start=40&viewmode=flat&order=0#597811

http://amigaworld.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=5276

ps2. There have been a few and as long as they don't "repeat" themselves to often I really don't care. =]

Last edited by terminills on 27-Jan-2011 at 01:45 PM.

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@linnar

It's no problem, English isn't your first language. I hope you can understand now though how what you say doesn't look like opinion - it sounds like "I'm right, you're wrong." and not "I think this is the case." Only the more extreme people will abuse you over an opinion, but to come out proclaiming anything as fact, especially when it's hotly disputed as the Workbench 5 situation, is probably inviting trouble.

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@terminills

Well, that's as may be. I don't follow AROS, so I don't know about you. In the light of that, I'm finding it more than a bit difficult to understand why you associate with CUSA, who have described AROS as being of less than no interest, and that it will never be worth anything as a product or OS.

Now, what about the question? Go on. =]

Last edited by T-J on 27-Jan-2011 at 01:48 PM.

@T-J

Answered in ps2 ... It really doesn't bother me at all. There has already been a few and I let them say what they want. Ussually tho the people interested in C=USA don't really care about this community at all tho and generally ignore the how shall I put it "old school" Amiga users..

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"AROS is prolly illegal ~ Evert Carton" intentionally quoted out of context for dramatic effect

@terminills

OK, doesn't bother you. Fine.

But having these forums sniping at each other isn't good, at least in my opinion. And from where I stand, it looks like staff members from yours are mounting periodic expeditions over here to try and get a cheap reaction from the angrier members. Its not exactly likely to promote amiable relations, is it?

@vox

Quote:

as a "CUSA hater" I know what they publicly realise. a) They promised AROS max support result: No support at all

Hyperion rattled a saber when that was announced. I don't think Hyperion has a legal leg to stand on, but that's up to C=USA to decide with their attorney.

Quote:

b) Promised A1200 style case: no, its more a PC case you can get now

It's delayed in favor of desktops. I'm actually promoting the idea of dropping the allinone in favor of tablets since the Amiga desktop units seem to be coming first. A500/A600/A1200 were cheap substitutes for desktops. Today, low end substitutes for desktops are now tablets with laptops over taking the traditional desktop market.

Quote:

c) Launched websites etc. about their "OS" Workbench 5, but name is yet to be detrmined (however, seems they will use Workbench name as AmigaOS association)

It's not written in stone yet so it may change. Kinda like Amiga Workbench OS tbh.

Quote:

d) No realise set date yet, but promises of CUSA Amiga launch were ... what automn 2010? Did they spaced the date

They shipped out some of the phoenixes. C64x is and always was their top priority for shipping on large scales. Amiga next generation was to follow and it will. Yes, the C64x's release was delayed, but poop happens, just ask A-EON. I will be watching for C=USA announcements and will alert you when they are published. Fair enough?

Quote:

d) No realise set date yet, but promises of CUSA Amiga launch were ... what automn 2010? Did they spaced the date

Kinda hard for them to give that Amiga Launch that date when they just signed the contract with AI in Sept, or was it Oct?

Quote:

e) There are no OS or hardware specs anywhere to be found, as there is no real exponation of OS on that Commodore Amiga website (which version of Ubuntu, which components, how customized)

Correct, C64x is their top priority. I suspect that after the C64x's launch is when more details about the new Amigas will be published.

Quote:

f) FAQ is not an answer to the user demand, but self explanation of washing the guilt to Amiga community

When C=USA wants us to know more, I'm sure they will update their FAQ some time after the C64x's launch.

Quote:

g) Used to be joke site, compared to whom A-EON and Hyperion website looked designed and informative

It's better then it use to be and still needs a lot of improvement. It's growing pains, ever startup goes through this process unless they have insane amount of VC which can lead to their demise by not being frugal enough. AI is a prime example of how too much is a bad thing if management can not handle it responsibly.

Quote:

h) I am interested how this 100% Amiga and Commodore compatibility will be reached without Kickstart and Workbench files which are under licence by Cloanto and Hyperion

AFAIK, neither CLoanto nor Hyperion (and other licensed entities) have exclusive license for 3.1 and earlier. You also may want to check out aros-exec.org some time.

_________________
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@damocles

Thank you for kind and sincere answers.

1) AROS: I remember it was CUSA that didn`t paid the drivers. AROS is another entity, and I don`t see how Hyperion can influence it, since its already avail for all x86 with proper hardware. If CUSA were building an AROS design, you would take it into account. Now, no paid drivers, no game. Other example that stands for CUSA promise of AROS support and development is AresOne.

2) I`ve seen it in CUSA forums that x500 and x1200 are planned (for 2012?) but mind that whole campaign before site redesign was built upon this foundation. Its disappointing even for those who loved CUSA. So not even a custom case for now (only for fatty C64). No set dates, no real designs again.

3) Its already campaigned as WB 5 and started to be subject of complain after people started to react in this small community. I don`t see other reason. Again, very unprofessional, remembering the previous OS list with CommodoOS, ChromeOS, plain Ubuntu, Amiga logo and couple of more (Windows 7 ...)

4) Well, then all this hype is completely unnecessary before 1st Apr 2011
We`ll talk more then when we really have what to talk about. The product.
So, SAM and X1000 are much more material then CUSA at this moment. At least have case design, software publicly known in development, estimated price, specs etc.

5) Hope it will be a real FAQ based on user questions and with realistic answers, not stupidities like in PowerPC case. Mind that still is first and almost last competitor to x86 no matter how fanny looks like.

6) Better not to show then embaress.

7) By the settlement with AmigaInc Hyperion has rights both to older AmigaOS versions as well as future (e.g. Workbench 5 is AmigaOS 5 component). CUSA is playing on the edge here. I see no legal way to archieve "Amiga OS 3.x compatibility of "new" "Amigas" but to purchase Cloanto Amiga Forever. If you know othet way, let us know.

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@vox

Quote:

If you know othet way, let us know.

Amiga.Inc still can sell (or licence) old Kickstarts (eg. 1.3 or 3.1) in purpose to run Amiga games. However, Amiga OS user interface must be hidden (no loaded WB).

@pavlor

If so, that is other licence / contract for AmigaOS that has not been paid.

To my understanding of this text
On 30 September 2009, Hyperion Entertainment and Amiga, Inc reached settlement agreement where Hyperion was granted, "an exclusive, perpetual, worldwide right to AmigaOS 3.1 in order to use, develop, modify, commercialize, distribute and market AmigaOS 4.x and subsequent versions of AmigaOS (including without limitation AmigaOS 5)

Hyperion owns 3.1 WB and KS and beyond.

Cloanto is only legal supplier of KS 1.3-CD32 and WB files.
WB 3.5 and 3.9 are owned by Haage and Partner.

Also, last sentence to my understanding means Hyperion owns right o Workbench 5, 6 ... as to previous versions ...

To summ it, CUSA is too many promises with little work and no positive alliances.
Recently, learned CUSA ceso is furniture seller, not an IT person. With some respect for his bussines challenge, that explains much. More troublesome is how many people get easily fished to this (similar to Internet fishing, this is retro customer fishing)

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@vox

Quote:

On 30 September 2009, Hyperion Entertainment and Amiga, Inc reached settlement agreement where Hyperion was granted, "an exclusive, perpetual, worldwide right to AmigaOS 3.1 in order to use, develop, modify, commercialize, distribute and market AmigaOS 4.x and subsequent versions of AmigaOS (including without limitation AmigaOS 5) Hyperion owns 3.1 WB and KS and beyond.

No, nothing in the above transfers ownership to Hyperion. Now read the second half which it states why they have that license, in order to use it in OS4 and beyond. This is so that AI can't come back and complain that OS4 (and beyond) was based on their IP and have shared rights to OS4 (and beyond). I will point out that AF has 3.1 in it.

Quote:

Cloanto is only legal supplier of KS 1.3-CD32 and WB files.

I have read nothing stating that AI has given all exclusive rights to Cloanto. AI can resell it to who they like.

Quote:

Also, last sentence to my understanding means Hyperion owns right o Workbench 5, 6 ... as to previous versions ...

Nope, nothing in the agreements and settlement ever gave Hyperion the use of "Workbench." Right now AI is challenging Cloanto's trademark of the word "Workbench." If what you said was true, then it would be Hyperion suing Cloanto over the trademark of "Workbench".

Quote:

Recently, learned CUSA ceso is furniture seller, not an IT person.

You should do the time and the research on what Barry's companies have been and then you can remove your shoe from your mouth.

_________________
Dammy

@damocles

"On 30 September 2009, Hyperion Entertainment and Amiga, Inc reached settlement agreement where Hyperion was granted, "an exclusive, perpetual, worldwide right to AmigaOS 3.1 in order to use, develop, modify, commercialize, distribute and market AmigaOS 4.x and subsequent versions of AmigaOS (including without limitation AmigaOS 5)."

It never fails to amaze me how yet again another 'person' tries to change one pivotal word in that statement to something else.

It says worldwide 'right' not worldwide 'license' .. stop trying to pull the wool over ours eyes we can read every printed word for ourselves.

Last edited by djrikki on 27-Jan-2011 at 07:19 PM.

_________________

@djrikki and vox and Damocles

As I wrote, Amiga.Inc can market Kickstart ROMs, but only in limited way.

Game bundled with KS3.1 is OK.
Kickstart/Workbench package for applications that need loaded Workbench is not.

Amiga.Inc owns "the Software" (Amiga OS 3.1 without name), but can´t market it except some cases as mentioned above.
Amiga.Inc owns Amiga OS 3.1 source code, but can´t use it.
Amiga.Inc owns Amiga OS/Amiga One names, but can´t use them.
Amiga.Inc can´t market any OS similar to AmigaOS (eg. AROS).

Hyperion owns Amiga OS 4 (based in part on "the Software").
Only Hyperion can use Amiga OS source code.
Only Hyperion can use names Amiga OS/AmigaOS/Amiga One/AmigaOne and probably also Amiga Operating System (Amiga.Inc can´t use such term).

(this is from the point of view of Amiga.Inc, Hyperion may have other claims)


I hope it is more clear now.

Last edited by pavlor on 27-Jan-2011 at 07:36 PM.

@Daedalus

Quote:

Daedalus wrote: @linnar It's no problem, English isn't your first language. I hope you can understand now though how what you say doesn't look like opinion - it sounds like "I'm right, you're wrong." and not "I think this is the case." Only the more extreme people will abuse you over an opinion, but to come out proclaiming anything as fact, especially when it's hotly disputed as the Workbench 5 situation, is probably inviting trouble.

Thank you for saying this . I sometimes categorical because I do not really understand language nuances. I do not want to be categorical, it just happens

_________________
There are very interesting in all languages.
http://www.kensonpro.com
Program, codes for websites, hifi, measuring instruments and more. The site is of more than 1200 pages and nearly 3Gb .