@Spirantho

Victory

@CritAnime (Private and confidential)

Quote:

CritAnime wrote: That was a good sleep. What I miss?

There is an automobile dealer here telling you why you need to give up
your motorcycle and buy into his views on proper transportation.

He's spending much energy on pointing out differences between his accessorized
vehicle and your customized bike.

He has brought along several salespeople to point out to you all the flaws in
your motorcycle when compared to the offerings they hope to sell you. For example
their vehicles have eight cylinders, four wheels, AND a seat that will keep your
fanny warm.

I am so tempted. Lets see......Up on two......warm buttocks....mmm...tough choice.

Tick--tock, Tick--tock, Tick--tock, Tick----

You can catch a few more Zs. We'll wake you when they're gone.

@Mechanic

cheers for the catchup. Take it the grand unveiling never happened. Oh well suppose I can catch a few more winks before starting work again. The joys of working in a hospital I suppose lol.

Laters.

Zzzzzzzzz

_________________
My personal blog - CritAnime.com

Admin at Commodore Gaming Wiki

I find quite funny when you say positive about CUSA your are automotically a CUSA fan and against OS4.
Quite funny when considering I'm OS4 user, future X1000 buyer and currently developing a game for OS4 that is not a unix port.
I used to love the AmigaOS way but now the community is divided in OS4, MOS, AROS, i dont see any future outside of the small retromodern hobbyst community.
The reality is that AmigaOS is completely outdated, just surviving with linux ports, and trying to catch with newer technology without success. I'm fedup with that.
I see COS as a fresh reboot of the platform. It has nothing to do with os3.x, great this will give possibility to have access to modern technology and apis.
If Apple had follow your logic, we would have a patched macos9 with smp, multitask, running on PPC hardware with taiwan case designs. Apple is constantly reinventing itself (IMac,macosx,x86, iphone, ipad) and amiga should take example. CUSA can reinvent the platform in a way it's appealing to the mass.
Today AmigaOS is just the shadow of what it was, a revolutionary OS with plenty of games and creativity software.
Today, i'm frustrating, even if the exotism of X1000 is appealing to my amiga spirit, it's too slow to run my remake of Shadow of the Beast the way i want it, HD with stunning 2D graphics.
Honestly, I'm thinking migrating the project on COS if I can make it exclusive to it

Last edited by Seblam on 11-Nov-2011 at 07:06 PM.

@WolfToTheMoon

Quote:

othing, but should it have? I mean, OS 3.x was great on 199x hardware, but it's 2011. .

Exactly the idea is expected to be pushed by CUSA boys: AmigaOS is dead.
Therefore we have the emu box for you. We are starting where Commodore left off.
We are new Commodore.

First, CBM was looking for new hardware platform, when it was visible there will be no Motorola after 68060. They wanted to compete with new SVGA PC`s by having AAA Hombre machine and yes, 68k AmigaOS 3.1 was not easy thing to port to that machine (every knowledgable Amigan is free to correct I&I) PPC wasn`t there, WindowwsNT 4 for several arhitectures wasn`t there yet (Sadly Microsoft dropped multi arhitecture support to add ARM support with Windows 8). CBM wasn`t eager to wait for PPC to grow fron 602. So it was more "where is new hardware thing" but that AmigaOS was dead for that age. Mind that these were the days where most common OS was crappy Windows 3.11 way more obsolete then AmigaOS with its 8+3 filenames, FAT16, DOS memory limits. WindowsNT was too demanding for hardware prices of the time, and revolutionary Windows95/Windows NT 4 was yet a dream.

Years of steady sales and financial support have made Windows to become much more enjoyable platform - to my experience only with Windows 2000 and Windows 7.
Linux came as alternative, also with much pain and development to become really nice and with its own free office and Firefox, mostly after 2000. If AmigaOS enjoyed same support from a company and age of development, it could be something big and usable. Instead we got 1993-1999 minor updates compared to other OS`s and 1999-2004 no development.

Yes, AmigaOS has its own "leftovers" - some redone like ExecSG, moving memory limit to 2GB, better memory flushing, adding virtual memory ... that came with OS 4 as well as some leftovers like bad printing support, single user only, SMP hard to implement, no real OpenGL ... but AmigaOS 4 shows its possible to remove them step by step.

If there are Windows leftovers even in Windows 7, these are BSOD (yes, exists), memory swapping to HDD without any real need (more then 20% RAM free), A-Z drive limit (With A and B reserved for floppy), file extension dependency on file type recognition even in 2011, DLL bloats and very bad resource freeing ...

So no one is perfect. But here, at Amiga Zen its good sides are still visible. Especially today when tablets, smartphones, nettops show that much can be done for users without x86 desktop unlimited resources, with much weaker hardware.

To quote it:
Quote:

OS4 is shaping up to be a worthy successor to the Amiga name. It certainly seems to have the right Zen. It goes to show that the future lies in those who do instead of those who talk about doing.

You, my neighbour, know that InI was eager to support CUSA when they started the AROS support story. Just like AresOne with Linux, Windows and AROS will replace my curent AMD X2 when it dies, this was a candidate for my next PC. Only things asked were to really support AROS and to include section in its Amiga history where existance of AROS, MOS and OS4 would be presented as existing, not bashed. So whoever wanted CUSA machine of not knowledgable people, would know there is more to it. CUSA still calls on Amiga community so much, while in reality being in war with all of it.

And honestly, why after so nice words about AROS still present in original C64x announcement on CUSA website, even as today, remember that CUSA claimed they tried to talk to MOS Team, Hyperion and that main reason for exclusion of AROS was "Hyperion lawsuit" where no other side ever mentioned any of these. Sounds like cheap excuse not to develop existing.

Quote:

Seblam Quote: By the way i find quite funny when AmigaOS fans complain about COS being only a skin on Linux when nearly all of today OS4 softwares are ports from Linux and open source world

True, but that is mainly because there is plenty of useful PPC Open source software, probably only source of free and useful apps for OS4.
Contrary, there are plenty x86 Linux distros much more tested and widely used then (yet not downloadable and seen) COS 1.x

Quote:

I sometimes think that C= was maybe better off without buying Amiga Inc(the original).

Probably wouldn`t make it over 16/32 bit era with Commodore 128 not being so popular and their PC line not so popular also. Some believe also that would be better for Amiga, since C= was not able to utilize Amiga 1000 miracle: all models up to Amiga 3000 and AGA were mostly spinning around how to cash it and not develop too much. However, their best move was actualy developing AmigaOS 2.x and 3.x that has made AmigaOS to be known of its most features.

Quote:

If Cusa sells a product with the name Amiga, for the right price and meets the expectation of their customers, no one will doubt they are Amiga.

Looking that logic, iCoin offers better price with same logo. Now, only COS 1.x and C64x case make a difference.

Quote:

Yes, the original Commodore was thinking about a new OS for the Amiga in the early 90s. Several options were considered, from Windows NT to, later, BeOS(this was under Amiga Technologies, after C= went bankrupt), QNX and Linux(under Gateway). They all very well knew that the classic Amiga OS(Workench, DOS....) wasn't very suitable for further development. Then again, there were those who favoured a rewrite of the original OS for the PPC(PA-RISC) back in the early 90s(this was considered during the final days of C=), but we don't know what exactly a rewrite meant for those in C= at the time.

By what we know that would be just emu box. Again, this wasn`t due to OS limitations as much as due to not being easy to port 68k OS to these machines, they were not able to do. But, after C= demise AmigaOS took PPC route with first WarpUP/PowerUP and MOS / OS4 later. This is also not to be denied.

So, again Amiga and AmigaOS never went x86. That might be better if AmigaOS really did so in its late days - maybe we would all enjoy AmigaOS 7 instead of Windows 7. But like to see AmigaOS showing its alive and progressing.

_________________
Future Acube and MOS supporter, fi di good, nothing fi di unprofessionals. Learn it harder way!

@Seblam

Quote:

Seblam wrote: I find quite funny when you say positive about CUSA your are automotically a CUSA fan and against OS4.

Quote:

The reality is that AmigaOS is completely outdated, just surviving with linux ports, and trying to catch with newer technology without success. I'm fedup with that.

Then simply move along to what you may consider greener pastures.

There is no need to burn-to-the-ground what is here because you are leaving.

Things change every day. Sometimes to your liking, sometimes not. C'est la vie.

The community is not divided really. Just on seperate paths. The only problem
we have is to get from one path to another, to even say "Hello", we must either
pay the 'Troll Toll' or do battle with the closed minded.

Things change.........

@Seblam
How the heck is a BOG standard pc with a LINUX distro a reboot of the platform??
You can do all this with a STANDARD x86 system that is much CHEAPER.
Only difference is that you get no amiga badge and actually let you choose your own form factor/case and so on.

Did you know that CUSA even promoted piracy?? They dont see any problem with selling or recommending people to download illegal roms.
This company is ripping off people by slapping a sticker onto normal x86 hardware and at the same time promotes piracy.

So yeah, you are either a fanboy, not the smartest person or you have a agenda.

@Seblam

Judging by your post, you seem to want to drop all your OS4 efforts and X1000.

OK, your money, your decision.

If you are pro CUSA, you are not immidiately against OS4, but most senior
CUSA promoters obviously are. This thread can testify to that.

Yes, AmigaOS is survivor living on whatever it can, but is also true that OS 4.0 and OS 4.1 are major improvements to me comparable to OS 2.x to OS 3.x transition. One or two incarnations almost nearby for the next year and it will become far more usable to modern standards in long time.

CUSA is no fresh reboot to AmigaOS series, but you are welcome to go exclusive for them. Basically you would be Linux exclusive

Quote:

Today, i'm frustrating, even if the exotism of X1000 is appealing to my amiga spirit, it's too slow to run my remake of Shadow of the Beast the way i want it, HD with stunning 2D graphics.

Well you should wait for AmigaOS 4.2 with 3D support that support X1000 better.
Then it might not be that frustrating. Or just lower a bit AmigaOS 4 edition.

Even the retro hobby community is some now and future. All of us here are survivors with patience, and now when things are getting better, we should live the boat because American company has C= and Amiga name and Linux distro with Amiga Forever? Good reasons.


Quote:

I see COS as a fresh reboot of the platform. It has nothing to do with os3.x, great this will give possibility to have access to modern technology and apis. . CUSA can reinvent the platform in a way it's appealing to the mass. it

Believe you see more then there is, and that is funky breath CUSA is appealing to: have patience and our next move might have something to do with Amiga. Well, you might as well develop for OpenSUSE or Ubuntu under same reasons (or Windows 7/8) or MacOS X. Its even more widesperad, mass appealing and has acces to modern techmology.
CUSA doesn`t reinvent except for using already invented under nice consumer package.

_________________
Future Acube and MOS supporter, fi di good, nothing fi di unprofessionals. Learn it harder way!

@Spirantho

Quote:

Finally a C=USA fan who admits that C=USA has nothing in common with Amigas!

Yes, but the day they promote their products with this in mind (and having such website) would be the day they would become realistic and fair trade company no one can object to. Very sad you can sue LCC for false adertising and get the owners and promotes legaly and materialy responsible. Beaty of corporations, just like nice sample explains it within Civilization 4 ...

Even COS campaign is based on C64/Amiga fame

_________________
Future Acube and MOS supporter, fi di good, nothing fi di unprofessionals. Learn it harder way!

@Seblam

Quote:

I like COS because it is what could have been a sort of "AmigaOSX" if Commodore have survived.

Oh, boy ...

Apple:

a) Did make a new OS of their own, programming it and investing to be best in the world, not modding some existing one

b) They included legal emulation of OS 9 and later of PPC CPU, solutions of their own they did uniquely.

If Commodore survived, surely there would be no CUSA and COS. And who knows which version of AmigaOS we would use.

Quote:

For me what a mistake to base a OS for modern computer using 1985 kernel technology

AmigaOS 4 kernel was rewritten from 0 in about 2004-2006
Its called ExecSG and its properiatery of Hyperion Entertaiment.

It would be nice if Windows didn`t have A-Z drives from 1982, or dummy file type by extension recognition, but we can hope Windows 8 or afterwards will be a fresh reboot. But people survive if many components are redone well and updated, one by one. Or don`t notice or don`t know of that underlying details.

_________________
Future Acube and MOS supporter, fi di good, nothing fi di unprofessionals. Learn it harder way!

@digitex

Quote:

date/time: 11.11.11 @ 11:11:11 GMT

OK Where is it then, I have been anxiously waiting with baited breath. -NOT.

Of course you chose 11/11/11 as it is the only date C= USA can use that makes sense to the rest of the world and not get half of it back to front.

Still awaiting this great news or was it just a cheap advertising ploy to get a few more trolls on AWN ?

@BillE

Quote:

AmigaOS4, AROS, MOS are only operating systems.. ok, we can continue to named them "Amiga" because today, without original hardware, these OS now are Amiga.

Quote:

11.11.11 @ 11:11:11 GMT

yep pretty poor form with all the rest thats goin on. shame on the yanks

Last edited by cheesegrate on 11-Nov-2011 at 08:04 PM.

_________________
"ICE CREAM, ICE CREAM!" - Speedball 2.

"Look behind you, a three-headed monkey!" - Monkey Island

I think they're now claiming it's 11:11 p.m....

@Tomas

Quote: "So yeah, you are either a fanboy, not the smartest person or you have a agenda."

Maybe I'm just me with my own sensibility about what is an Amiga.

@Vox

No, Apple build MacOSX on NextStep or BSD, don't remember.

No, the original Commodore would have survived, you would not use the AmigaOS in the form you know it today but much more closer to Linux/Windows/MacOSX

And no, ExecSG isn't write from scratch. It's an adaptation of the original kernel to PPC keeping the same architecture and thus the same limitations. MorphOS made a much more clever choice developing the QBox that should have allowed SMP and memory protection out of the box. But they stop to develop it in this way. OS4 was developed by ex 3D API Amiga coders. You can't be at the same time an expert in 3D API and expert in OS architecture.

I'm sharing your dream of a unified OS5.0 but for me this is just a dream, it will never happens. But don't get me wrong, if X1000/OS4 are success and get developed well, for sure it will be more appealing to me than COS. But I have big doubts about that happening...

Last edited by Seblam on 11-Nov-2011 at 08:10 PM.

@Seblam
Quote:

Maybe I'm just me with my own sensibility about what is an Amiga.

Which is what makes you a fanboy. You seem to care more about name than actual system.
Again why buy a overpriced x86 box running linux when you could get the same system for cheaper? Only difference would be that it dosent come with a amiga badge and gives you more bang for the buck.

I dont care about name and use OS4.1 because i like the way it works.
I also have a another pc i use with linux, which only cost me a fraction of those CUSA systems.

@Vox

oh boy I forget, and no, Windows didn't keep the same flaws from 1982. It has as well its fresh reboot with Windows XP when switching from old MS-DOS/Win3.1/95 architecture to WindowsNT. And since XP, I don't think you can really complain about Windows anymore...

Last edited by Seblam on 11-Nov-2011 at 08:21 PM.

@Seblam

Quote:

Seblam wrote: Today, i'm frustrating, even if the exotism of X1000 is appealing to my amiga spirit, it's too slow to run my remake of Shadow of the Beast the way i want it, HD with stunning 2D graphics. Honestly, I'm thinking migrating the project on COS if I can make it exclusive to it

Exclusive to COS or Linux? Because they are one and the same so I would class it as been exclusive to Linux then.

_________________
My personal blog - CritAnime.com

Admin at Commodore Gaming Wiki

@Tomas

Ok call me a fan boy if you want, I could call you whatever I want as well but I wont as I dont know you. Maybe you're just another fanboy after all...

@Seblam

Quote:

Seblam wrote: Maybe I'm just me with my own sensibility about what is an Amiga.

As are we all.

I only have interest in one. That does not mean I have NO interest in the others, or in other unrelated
systems. I do not however see any point in peeing on what others want or use. BUT, if I whip it out and
point in their direction........maybe a contest will start that ends with everybody wet and stinky.

I don't go to CUSA website.

My choice is the best. That is what I promote.
Not the other choice is ' bad '.

@Seblam


Quote:

No, Apple build MacOSX on NextStep or BSD, don't remember .

NextStep but they purchased the company and developed it on. Higer level then CUSA
for ever!

Quote:

. No, the original Commodore would have survived, you would not use the AmigaOS in the form you know it today but much more closer to Linux/Windows/MacOSX

No one can claim this for sure. But is it bad that AmigaOS survived and developed even C= didn`t (except in such exploit for as CUSA)

Quote:

And no, ExecSG isn't write from scratch. It's an adaptation of the original kernel to PPC keeping the same architecture and thus the same limitations. MorphOS made a much more clever choice developing the QBox that should have allowed SMP and memory protection out of the box. But they stop to develop it in this way. OS4 was developed by ex 3D API Amiga coders. You can't be at the same time an expert in 3D API and expert in OS architecture.

Both MOS and OS4 have their own Amiga team and software developers.
Sure OS4 was biggest project for Hyperion, but they proved to be worthy.
Yes, MOS made several better choices because started from zero.

Officialy, ExecSG is new but exec.library compatibile layer but has major improvements such as:

Hardware Abstraction Layer (HAL): ExecSG itself is machine independent, it sits on an abstract "hardware". Only the abstraction layer itself has to be ported to a new platform thus making the transition to other hardware relatively easy. The abstraction layer itself is also divided up into different parts: CPU, machine and common. For a transition to another machine with an already supported CPU, only the "machine" part has to be ported.
• Resource tracking: Applications can create "trackable" resources, for example memory, message ports, messages, semaphores, and have them tracked by ExecSG. When the program exits (either normally or abnormally due to a crash) the resources are freed automatically.
• Improved trap handling: Previous incarnations of Exec only allowed one trap handler per task. ExecSG allows trap handlers to be installed for different "events", like illegal instructions, address errors, privilege violations, etc.

So you kindda oversimplify it.

Quote:

I'm sharing your dream of a unified OS5.0 but for me this is just a dream, it will never happens. But don't get me wrong, if X1000/OS4 are success and get developed well, for sure it will be more appealing to me than COS. But I have big doubts about that happening...

Hope we will live to see that dream and not some COS X.x modded distro.
Because advancement of AmigaOS / MOS / AROS is the real way for Amigans to go.

Don`t have doubts. Support X1000 today and contribute it.

But that extreme C64x and CUSA Amiga when its done if you want. Have your apps for COS. Love you if you do previous step for real. Even making that Shadow of Beast HD stripped for OS4 and best possible for CUSA. Because you did first step for real AmigaOS.

_________________
Future Acube and MOS supporter, fi di good, nothing fi di unprofessionals. Learn it harder way!