@Metalheart

Quote:

Metalheart wrote: @BillE It's not a CUSA thread, It is a thread about AmigaOS. About a poll to gage interest in new AmigaOS hardware system. Altough CUSA are going to 'manage' it, it IS about AmigaOS. Not CUSA-OS. @all And please only suggestion about a poll here, trying to keep the thread clean !!! Martin So here we are.... Please only suggest poll options as discussed and proposed by CUSA here:

This is a CUSA thread no matter how you try to twist it, you clearly stated in the very first post that this was solely concerned with what CUSA proposed...

So by your own words and the very thread title this is indeed a CUSA thread and like all the others it should be moved to the appropriate forum...

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@Franko

Fine, let's say you are right. Does it bother you that this one IS on the front page ? Or do you just want to sabotage the whole idea ?

Keep in mind that this thread is NOT solely about CUSA, but about the whole AmigaOS's future.
Including OS4, MOS, NAtami and all of them !!

Moderators feel free fo move this thread.

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@Metalheart

You said it yourself in post #3...

Quote:

I'll start... - What OS direction should be chosen ? - Should it be software or hardware based project ? - are you willing to invest with the possiblity (should it fail) to get al your money back ? (to see if we can get 500 investors) - An emulator running on generic x86/64 hardware, able to run the two PPC Amiga OS's - Fund or hire coders with the single purpose of porting important apps

Now if this thread asking for poll questions is not about CUSA then why did you suggest questions based on what CUSA are asking ie: "are you willing to invest with the possiblity (should it fail) to get al your money back ? (to see if we can get 500 investors)"

The problem I have is the inconsistency here in allowing this thread and none of the others to be allowed on the front page, that's all it not about the poll itself as I quite honestly couldn't care less for a poll about CUSA...

I do find it odd and to be perfectly honest somewhat false that a company would leave it up to others to decide on the questions for a poll for them, that they have stated enough times in the past are not their target audience and basically are asking us to come up with a business plan for them...

It just shows that they have no idea what they are doing and that's not a company I would be willing to pay any money to or trust them even in the slightest...

Last edited by Franko on 22-Dec-2011 at 11:55 AM.

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@Metalheart

Quote:

Or do you just want to sabotage the whole idea ?

Not at all. It's just that the whole idea is crazy.

There is little point in going through for the upteenmillionth time an 'Amiga wishlist' - we've been doing these for 17 years!

Everyone knows what the options are and genuine businesses getting involved know what these options cost and have an idea as to their popularity. Asking a whole pile of everyone - 'what would you like?' at this late, late stage is utterly pointless.

A genuine business should have enough information by now to come up with a feasible plan and bring it to market - like Hyperion, like A-Eon and to some extent like CUSA has already done with the cases.

But this aimless stab in the dark along with a comment that the poll has no deadline - could be weeks - shows how totally unstructured it all is. If it is this badly organised now just imagine the car crash at the end.

---

Also - how can they have a project completion time of 6 months? They don't even know what they are building yet! It can take years to build a new system as we have seen. 6 months for anything other than producing more cases is just completely unfeasible and just cannot be done.

Last edited by -Sam- on 22-Dec-2011 at 12:53 PM.

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Sam

@Franko

500 buyer, instead of 500 investors would prefer.
Their respective investments result not only a machine, but if you also share in profits.

Investors will have half the money could be used when you let all investors who sent a beta machine. If you like the results can be used in the second half to finalised.

Two involved only for the sake of simplicity, I said, of course, be more than a milestone.

Last edited by AliveMOon on 22-Dec-2011 at 12:31 PM.

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@Metalheart

Quote:

Keep in mind that this thread is NOT solely about CUSA, but about the whole AmigaOS's future. Including OS4, MOS, NAtami and all of them !!

This thread is entirely about CUSA. This is CUSA trolling for a profitable business model.

CUSA couldn't care about OS4, MOS, Natami or anything else. They went their way with rebadged PCs and some minor r&d to come up with custom cases and keyboards. As I predicted almost a year ago it looks like the gig is up. The harsh realities of the PC market have come home to roost.

One thing to learn from their experience: the retro market is small and not profitable, otherwise why would they be back here looking to build up a crappy 500 unit order which will never happen in the proposed design-by-committee mode.

Real product development takes a long-term view with robust funding to help a business survive the first-generation products, learn some lessions, get to know the market better, and come out with better products that hopefully break even or at least turn a small profit. This is something that both Trevor Dick and ACube have done well and are continuing with going forward. This is how a proper tech business is run.

My advice to CUSA - stop. If you want to stay in this market partner with somebody who needs funding. The obvious choice to me is the Natami team. Help them with cash flow and perhaps casing in exchange for a slice of whatever pie there is. You don't have any software or hardware engineering experience. All you have is the Amiga name and some cash. Given lots of r&d the Natami product could grow into quite a cool platform, perhaps to the point it could support PPC and OS4/MOS.

@-Sam-

Somehow agreed. But I'm willing to give it a shot, especialy when there is no risk for us involved.

The only thing I'm a bit concerned about is stepping on Hyperions and E-eon's toes here.
But as I think they should be involved in this, i might turn out fine....

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When its time to meet the maker
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@gregthecanuck

Should we have a poll about continuing this thread ? JFC !!
Let it go, there's no harm.....

sigh....

No more discussions about this thread or CUSA's intentions from me.

Last edited by Metalheart on 22-Dec-2011 at 12:54 PM.

_________________
Theres a time to live and a time to die
When its time to meet the maker
Theres a time to live but isnt it strange
That as soon as you're born you're dying

@Metalheart

Quote:

Somehow agreed. But I'm willing to give it a shot, especialy when there is no risk for us involved.

I know you mean well but this sort of thing pushed along by CUSA and companies like them (as we have had plenty of in the previous 17 years) just shouldn't be necessary.

It is ultimately a massive waste of time.

Hyperion and A-Eon are coming along fine. If C-USA want to offer something to them - then they are able to do that themselves. They shouldn't need to give us a 'challenge'.

Last edited by -Sam- on 22-Dec-2011 at 01:09 PM.

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Sam

@Metalheart

Quote:

Should we have a poll about continuing this thread ? JFC !!

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Sam

@-Sam-

Sheesh, I give up. I just can't keep a positive frame of mind. Leo, you and Metalheart are on your own. Good luck trying to convince the curmudgeons on this site.

So people..... Should we call it off ?

_________________
Theres a time to live and a time to die
When its time to meet the maker
Theres a time to live but isnt it strange
That as soon as you're born you're dying

@Metalheart

"The only thing I'm a bit concerned about is stepping on Hyperions and E-eon's toes here.
But as I think they should be involved in this, i might turn out fine...."

C= has said that they negotiate all the needed agreements, so, no problem.
We must just make the initial decision(s) (and perhaps 500 names behind it). (in a few weeks)
The C= starts it's work and reports back the estimated cost with AOS4 licences etc.
(agreements signed between parties like Hyperion and the HW partner)

The we should fine tune if needed or start again if we faced a wall.
After the fine tuning (in a few months) and green light from C=, we put in our money, then C= starts the work.
If C= fails, we get our money back.

We have two goals:
- show the strength of Amiga (the community)
- we get also the new thing from C=
Win-win situation for the community, anyway.

C= wants to do something to be our friends ... more than Amiga Inc did.

During the poll time, I suggest that C= starts donating to Amiga bounties.
(according to separate community polls or whatever)
Lets say 1000EUR per month.
It would show their commitment towards us and encourage the community to work harder.

btw. I updated my poll ideas on the first page.

Last edited by KimmoK on 22-Dec-2011 at 01:25 PM.

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// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@gregthecanuck

Yes, I agree the retro market is small, but if it weren't profitable, at least in some way, then this whole tread is a waste of time. The very fact that a couple hundred X1000s sold shows that the small retro market has money and is not driven by the price/performance ratios that the main market (Apple & PCs) are driven buy. It's a fringe but a fringe that is willing to plunk their credit cards down.

about retro:

There's plenty of retro devices+SW sold in mainstream shops and elsewhere, it should tell something.

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- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@KimmoK

It is a win-win situation for C=USA. Either they get a product that generates some profit and the critics are quieted OR they get no product because of the divisions and the critics are quieted. It's only a win for us if we can agree on a product at a price and order 500 of them. A much bigger ask of us than them.

@persia

But to me it seems they are not looking for profit with the first 500 units.
+ it's already a win when/if we manage to do the decision.

But yes, if we fail to deside, we look lame.

If community manages to make the needed decisions C= needs to do their part or loose their face.

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@CodeSmith

Quote:

Sheesh, I give up. I just can't keep a positive frame of mind. Leo, you and Metalheart are on your own. Good luck trying to convince the curmudgeons on this site.

Sorry CodeSmith - but I'm not really sure what you mean.

I'm certainly not in the CUSA camp on this one. Just trying to highlight the silliness of it all whilst at the same time acknowledge that people like MetalHeart have good intentions but that this one is going nowhere.

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Sam

@Metalheart

Quote:

So people..... Should we call it off ?

I thought you already agreed you had?

The 'challenge' thing - it's a nonsense.

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Sam

@wawa

Quote:

this post doesnt contain any choice, you want to have evreything and all at the same time. making decisions doesnt work that way. people, try to reduce your demands to what you think is really most significant, only that way we can come to any common conclusions.

as i said in post these are EXAMPLES. basically what i propose is releasing (in the present) what is available now as a prebuilt system. then in the future work towards their x86 goal while working with hyperion to create a version of aos4 for that board.

this is a fully workable solution to get cusa or any other group a foothold in the amiga community. all the present solution requires is case production and negotiation with the hw/os manufacturers. the future proposal will require much more time to complete.

Last edited by jkirk on 22-Dec-2011 at 01:52 PM.

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