@redfox

right, the concepts are not that bad. paradoxically would prefer commodore-baige though. too many fancy black or metallic cases today.

@Metalheart

I have a hunch that Rosetta is too integrated into OSX to be just some code one can buy and compile into AROS.

The rest of it, yes. Let's start looking around for possible boards that could be bought in low volumes, concentrating on those with components that are already supported by the three OSs. The less work that needs to be done, the more likely this is to succeed.

@CodeSmith

Exactly !

So it seems to go in the direction of OS4 (with adapted drivers), existing HW with PPC, Low price of the HW and sufficient availablity.

Any thought on second hand hardware when able to purchase them in numbers ? I dont think this is the way to go though...

Last edited by Metalheart on 20-Dec-2011 at 11:26 PM.

_________________
Theres a time to live and a time to die
When its time to meet the maker
Theres a time to live but isnt it strange
That as soon as you're born you're dying

How about an PCI board for PPC Amiga's featuring a x86 chip for running Windows (eliminating the need of a x86 emulator like bochs) Just like the old bridgeboards ?
Or even like the Siamese system of years ago ? (inside out ?)
We might need software that could link the PPC system and x86 system together for cut and paste bewteen both, or running Windows inside an Amiga window. Maybe even the start of a (slow)migration from PPC to x86, porting libraries and stuff to x86 like the way Amithlon works.

Just a few brainwaves.....

_________________
Theres a time to live and a time to die
When its time to meet the maker
Theres a time to live but isnt it strange
That as soon as you're born you're dying

@Metalheart

Quote:

How about an PCI board for PPC Amiga's

As I said before, I would suggest something that expands the user base, rather than limits it to pre-existing hardware. Something that can grow.

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Opinions expressed are my own and not those of C= USA.
Commodore/AMIGA "Beautiful, High-Performance, Home Computers for Creativity and Entertainment."

@BigBentheAussie

If looking for poll ideas that will expand the userbase, and possibly be marketable to others besides those reading this forum, it sort of removes several ideas already mention (in my opinion). A PPC Amiga won't increase the userbase a whole lot, unless you somehow can sell it < $200

Last edited by Nameless on 21-Dec-2011 at 12:00 AM.

So that leaves:
x86 + AOS4 desktops
x86 + AOS4 laptops
Or FPGA ideas, but doubtful that could be considered affordable when a doing small run of 500.

I'm partial to FPGA turned into a mass market chip, if somehow possible in your budget. Or some type of Roku-like device (running AOS4), myself. If priced appropriately, they would match up against current solutions out there and appeal to a much wider audience than just current Amiga people.

And no idea why my posts get cut off like that...

Last edited by Nameless on 20-Dec-2011 at 11:59 PM.

@BigBentheAussie

Quote:

As I said before, I would suggest something that expands the user base, rather than limits it to pre-existing hardware. Something that can grow.

A lot of people say they would get a Sam if it was lower priced. Would you be prepared to look into the possibility of larger productions in order to bring the price down.

If you are still going to do X86 Commodore Amiga systems and you end up selling PPC computers it might be better to simply call the PPC stuff Amiga so that there's a distinction.

So what DOES expand the userbase ?

Low price hardware for OS4
Must have hardware like tablets, phones,mediaplayers,settop boxes, game consoles. All with low pricetag.
X86 hardware running OS4, directly or via emulator
OS4 laptop at a lowish price
PPC expanision cards for classic HW
PPC emulator or PPC expansion board for x86 machines
Very cheap and small OS4 hardware with the single purpose of running all those fun classic games people have fond memories of, with the hidden purpose of getting people interested in OS4 Amigas again. (Hey I can also surf the web and do office work with this little nice fun device, I bought for playing games.... )

KILLER APPS for OS4 including a capable browser and office suit.

correct guys ?

Isnt there any new old stock of macbook's lying around in some warehouse ? a few thousand would be fantastic for our market....

Last edited by Metalheart on 21-Dec-2011 at 12:15 AM.
Last edited by Metalheart on 21-Dec-2011 at 12:12 AM.

_________________
Theres a time to live and a time to die
When its time to meet the maker
Theres a time to live but isnt it strange
That as soon as you're born you're dying

@BigBentheAussie

Quote:

BigBentheAussie wrote: @Metalheart Quote: How about an PCI board for PPC Amiga's As I said before, I would suggest something that expands the user base, rather than limits it to pre-existing hardware. Something that can grow.

Yup, then you basically are left with X86 and either Commodore OS (almost no interest anywhere in 1.0 version) or talking with Hyperion. I fail to see how this requires input from the Kommunity after all and I fail to see how this has all options on the table.

Unit all camps, starting with Hyperion. But this probably can't play out in public.

_________________
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MorphOS 2.7 (Registered)
$225 total spent!

What I meant by expand the user base is this.
People are suggesting cards for classics....or cards or software for existing PPC systems...
There are only a finite number of those.....so that does not expand the user base....
It limits it to an existing user base....which keeps the situation as it is currently.

Last edited by BigBentheAussie on 21-Dec-2011 at 12:23 AM.

_________________
Leo Nigro, CTO Commodore USA, LLC
Opinions expressed are my own and not those of C= USA.
Commodore/AMIGA "Beautiful, High-Performance, Home Computers for Creativity and Entertainment."

@Metalheart

Quote:

snt there any new old stock of macbook's lying around in some warehouse ? a few thousand would be fantastic for our market....

Do you mean Apple PowerBooks? They were the G4 PPC ones!

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@BigBentheAussie

Well it does... By luring people to OS4 machines with nice software like a good browser and office suit
Also classic amiga users could get a PPC card and run OS4.

I agree those numbers wouldnt be earth shattering, but still it would expand the numbers of OS4 users.

The best option would be cheaper hardware, but that would go hand in hand with software. A 10 Euro machine with no useable software would not sell very well.

Since noone here want or needs anything else then AmigaOS, it would suggest x86 hardware with AmigaOS4 port. But that would be expensive and take more then 6 months. Wouldnt it ? Or do you think you could negotiate with Hyperion to port OS4 to x86 in a hurry, for cheap ?

The other thing is AROS on x86, but that is already here, so thats moot. It might benefit from more apps though.....

Oh, and ofcourse PPC Apple HW, but those cant be found in the hundreds or thousands and are second hand, arent they ? It could not hurt bringing that OS4 port to mac mini back to life though...

But your suggestions are also welcome here...... But try not to step on peoples toes ! seriously ! Dont !

Last edited by Metalheart on 21-Dec-2011 at 12:33 AM.
Last edited by Metalheart on 21-Dec-2011 at 12:31 AM.

_________________
Theres a time to live and a time to die
When its time to meet the maker
Theres a time to live but isnt it strange
That as soon as you're born you're dying

Hi all,

I'm an old Amiga user who stopped in 1998. But I follow regularly of the world Amiga news waiting for something to happen.

Of all the projects Amiga, the Natami seems the only one who looks like a real new Amiga. This is the Amiga 5000.
All solutions based on PPC and PC graphics card have absolutely nothing to do with Amiga. The Natami has a real Amiga chipset like at the great era and offers unprecedented graphics modes, in short, is different from the rest.
So I suggest that Commodore United States focuses on Natami in an Amiga 500/1200 housing with an Amiga keyboard and AROS.
The 68050/68070 need to be ASIC 1GHz or 1.5 GHz. The Natami already has one PCI slot.
This machine, with a little advertising on the Internet could bring back some old users and get some new users that seek something different. Especially if the price was reasonable (around 500 euros). Of course there should have basic softwares (browser etc ...).

A PPC offers nothing that will make me buy it, while the Natami could offer some difference in the computer world today and he could really be call Amiga.

I hope this outside perspective can be useful.

@babsimov

Thanks for your input. It is always good to hear from people that are not the usual ones to post hundreds of messages on the forums, to see what some of the rest of the community is thinking about.

I get the impression that BigBenAussie would prefer some suggestions that would result in a product that is not only interesting to the current remaining Amiga enthusiasts, but also to the rest of the computer using public. That is his "expanding the user base" hope (I think).

Unfortunately, the choices of products that would interest the general computing public have nothing to do with the Amiga anymore.

Sorry for the comments, I know you only want suggestions, so here are mine.

Natami in a nice case and produced in quantity to reduce costs of production. Or, new hardware that is capable of running Natami, OS4, MorphOS, & AROS.

Last edited by amigadave on 21-Dec-2011 at 01:55 AM.

_________________
Amiga! The computer that inspired so many, to accomplish so much, but has ended up in the hands of . . . . . . . . . .

@babsimov

Your views basically mirror my own preference. The problem as I see it is, an ASIC is prohibitively expensive at a low run. So if going with 500 pre-paid customers, each could end up paying $2000+ (or thereabouts). I would expand the idea into going with FPGA arcade or even MiniMig, instead of Natami, to reduce possible costs. If it could be turned into a mass market chip, it could possibly be very affordable if the numbers are high enough. I believe Jens was looking for a toy manufacturer for his A/Clone chip, to market as a device similar to the 'C-64 in a joystick'... priced right, such a device could sell in the 10s of thousands. Just not sure CUSA has the interest or cash to put upfront for such a device.

@babsimov

Whereas as I believe the opposite. Natami and FPGA are both stuck in the pre-OS4 era - waste of time - hardly a penny to be made in retro.

As I have said time and time again computer hardware for the masses peaked about 5 years ago. For games you buy a console these days (sad situation I know), for business you buy any computer with more than 1.2Ghz of processing power (regardless of architecture) and 2GB of RAM. Naturally if your a poor sad Windows user running Windows 7 you might require a little more clock cycles to run your poor excuse for an operating system.

Anything above that threshold is required for high intensive stuff like video editing (I don't mean iMovie which is more than fast enough at 2Ghz) , 3d rendering which 99.99% of potential consumers don't care less about.

Last edited by djrikki on 21-Dec-2011 at 02:57 AM.
Last edited by djrikki on 21-Dec-2011 at 02:55 AM.

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@Nameless

I like your idea in principle, but NatAmi is basically going at its own pace and Jens hasn't talked about Clone-A in ages which leads me to thing the project is stalled. On the other hand, MiniMig would fit the bill quite nicely I think - an inexpensive accelerated Amiga that can run most of the old games, it's already out there and all it needs is some nice packaging to make it palatable to the mainstream crowd. Since it's not PPC, it also has the advantage of not having any red vs blue baggage.

[edit] Other advantages:
* it's open source so CUSA can make any tweaks they need to eg make it fit better in a custom enclosure and they can use it without any licensing problems as long as they publish their tweaks.
* It runs OS3 which they can get from Cloanto without getting embroiled into Amiga Inc vs Hyperion
* It doesn't run OS4 or MOS so it's not "stealing sales" from any established players, in fact they will be giving ACube and Cloanto extra business.

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of CUSA doing a "A500x" based on a MiniMig.

Last edited by CodeSmith on 21-Dec-2011 at 03:05 AM.

@djrikki

Correct, but only if you keep the machine as a FPGA. If you turn it into a chip, it can be mass marketed and there is definitely a chance of profit. Not sure if that's possible with Natami, but it should be with Minimig or perhaps FPGA arcade. The C64DTV sold very well (forget number, think easily over 100K). There is a market for such a device. But it may not be what people want here.

@djrikki

I think it's safe to assume that anything we call "amiga" (68K or PPC) is retro - no mainstream computer manufacturer has used PPC as a main CPU in years. Rather than fight it and pretend that even a PPC amiga can somehow compete in the mainstream market with Windows, Mac and Linux we should embrace the "retroness" and play up the amiga's strengths, ie simplicity, ease of use. What makes you think that a hypothetical port of Photoshop (or any other heavyweight mainstream tool) on OS4, even if done perfectly, would be any easier to use than the Mac or Windows version? As Albert Einstein said, if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it's going to seem pretty useless.