@wawa

Quote:

ive never questioned that. i dont question they business practices but rather try to point out objective difficulties and risks in comparison with well designed, produced and tested premium product by a leading company. remember only how long it took to find out that resistor problem. year? two years?

Surely, bigger company with more resources, ins`t trouble free also. However, its only good luck they have been promoting PPC for about decade that has made this possible.
I don`t think that resistor problem took that long, overall problem was with driver and as audio driver advanced, most of users solved their problem. In the end, it was obvious its down to hardware.

Quote:

well, the macs were designed upon a research of what is best for a regular customer i guess. i font know what for the sams were designed but either were not ment for desktop computers or is that design pretty awkward for an end user as it seems. sorry a mac scores here another point, to be fair.

It was best technology at that time, Apple was always the leader, but as you know, it ended in 2006. So I wouldn`t be surprised for SAM 460 to prove to be good in disk transfer, gfx and memory which gives to user experience as much as fast CPU. Its not all in fastest CPU, it always comes to my mind when x86 vendors used to build systems with mid or high end CPU, but rest of crappy components (little RAM, low end gfx) that would spoil the experience. In those terms SAM 460 or X1000 would be nice MOS platforms. SAMs are kind of industrial Linux boards built to be compact and power efficient over performance.

Quote:

thats for people who like shopping, label victims, there might be some who really care, me not. id be interested in a new hardware that somehow carries amiga philosophy and heritage. if this is bullshit today, then i just dont care, id take an regular x86 board..

I agree with you, but its not just that, Apple has ceased to provide any repair, and almost only way is to replace complete Mac which will be harder as time goes by. Also, in terms of electronic durability, new is longer leasting, or at least should be so.

Quote:

its not their (mos team) intention so far i have it confirmed. and dont care so much either.

Its good for high end Classic users, that they don`t feel left behind. And gives a bit connection to Classic Amiga world, even it would be a slowest AmigaOS 4 / MorphOS system.

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Future Acube and MOS supporter, fi di good, nothing fi di unprofessionals. Learn it harder way!

@wawa

Quote:

ive never questioned that. i dont question they business practices but rather try to point out objective difficulties and risks in comparison with well designed, produced and tested premium product by a leading company. remember only how long it took to find out that resistor problem. year? two years?

This isn't the first time I read some misinformation about our products from your side, other times I never bothered to reply, but this time it's enough...

The resistor problem only affected the last 25 boards from the third batch we produced, and it's not present in early boards produced, it was a problem at the production facility, and we couldn't identify it before because the boards we tested to isolate the problem had the resistor in place.

I'd like to know from where you took the "two years" quote...

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Massimiliano Tretene, ACube Systems, Soft3

@m3x

Quote:

I'd like to know from where you took the "two years" quote...

since the introduction/release of sam460 (dezember 2010 so far i recall), first there were no drivers so there were no issue. then after several months or a year you have finally introduced a driver for the onboard soud (correct me if im wrong). then people complained about problems like crackling and distortions. finally after few months the driver was fixed so far that there was no complains. then someone mentioned this problem again, and all the sudden there were other users that admitted they had the same issue only didnt tell. everybody was thinking the driver is still buggy afair, till you have found out the resistor issue and told people how to fix it.

well, from the perspective it looks like there might be fabrication issues all along. for instance jens schoenfeld has admitted that he had to manually rework certain proiducts. this may be issue of small batches. sure you know better than me, so i trust you it was only one batch. but in the end this is not an issue i was talking about neither i want to put your hardware down.

the point is, cheap, high volume hardware from leading manufacturer like apple bears less risk for a customer even if it is dated, second hand and lacks warranty. im sorry. this is the reality of the situation. im not going to invest into any hardware solution os4 offers. this is completely outside of what im motivated and can justify to do in this context. an i have never even tried morphos. but now i suddenly realize, i should have no problem to gather some mac from my frinds and run morphos on it. see the logic?

Seems like a big update, congrats to MOS devs and users. Any news, rumors about what's next, since most viable PPC machines are already supported... ISA switch?

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@WolfToTheMoon

The next release of MorphOS after a major release like this one is usually a bug-fix release to fix the few things that are found missing, or not working as planned in the current release. It will likely have a few new features, or the MorphOS Dev. Team may change their pattern that I have described above (it is not a written in stone policy, just an observation that another member made, which I happen to agree with).

After that, who knows what will come next, but most hints so far is that an ISA change won't happen for a long time yet. There is still plenty of refinement that can be done within MorphOS and features that can be added, plus we still need more software, so that is my hope for the future. That the MorphOS Dev. Team will slow down their pace in supporting more and different platforms, and will instead work more on new features, refinement of existing features, and hopefully on new software that will take advantage of the increased speed found in the G5 hardware that is now supported.

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Amiga! The computer that inspired so many, to accomplish so much, but has ended up in the hands of . . . . . . . . . .

@wawa

Quote:

see the logic?

actually whom am i telling that? you guys from acube were pushing that moana project at its time afair. we owe you respect for that foresight!

@Zylesea

I am personal no MorphOS user and have no intention to become but I have to gratulate all developers involved. It is a really impressing list of features and updates and MorphOS certainly keeps the crown as best Amiga-based OS.

@wawa

Keep in mind that due to cost-cutting and large scale production Apple has far more serious manufacturing problems than ACube. When they make lemons it's not 25 units, it's 25000!

Many if not all 17" and 20" iMac G5 suffer from faulty capacitors in the PSU and on the motherboard because to save a few pennies per machine Apple sourced the capacitors from a company which turned out to have stolen/copied an incomplete formula resulting in unstable caps.

Apple didn't issue a recall, they just replaced the whole PSU and/or motherboard on the machines which failed before the warranty expired, and in the case of my customers the new parts still used the same faulty caps which blew up again eventually. The two machines I fixed had a blown cap and "pregnant" ones everywhere. After replacing all $5 worth of sub-standard caps with proper ones, they never popped again.

I suspect that thousands of iMacs G5 ended up in the trash because the owners didn't know they simply needed a few caps. On the bright side it should be easy to get dead ones for free that can fairly easily be fixed.

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AlexC's free OS4 software collection

AmigaOne XE/X1000/X5000/UAE-PPC OS4 laptop/X-10 Home Automation

@wawa

What AlexC said.

I live with this sort of problem all the time here in the real world, subcontractors simply cannot be trusted to produce 100% perfectly if left to their own devices. Often it's not even their fault, just an accident. who can you trust? Easy: noone.

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This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

@olegil, alexc

i dont say mainstream hardware is perfect, far from it. as i lately mentioned in a thread about failing x1k on another site, especially with notebooks i have an experience of reproducably failing components or flaws in design. the manufacturers may have offered reworks or replacements to certain extend beyond warranty in such cases, and i even have bought a t43p again knowing that and what will fail, just because the device had some characteristics to my liking on the contrary to current notebooks.

again, im not trying to blame os4 hardware vendors. but ill repeat: from the user point of view the widely available hardware, comperatively cheap, tested in the field and with already well known issues is much less risky than custom, low volume and therefore expensive to produce and test hardware, with almost no reference in internet one could relate to and which flaws one will have to find out himself.

no doubt, therefore morphos does so well, even if people know what issues for instance g5 fluid cooled macs may have, they are already aware and can adjust their handling and decissions respectively.

@wawa

Methinks that only makes sense as far as choosing between old vs new, not in custom vs mainstream. Since the issue here was errors in manufacturing, not errors in design.

But it might be that this is exactly what you're advocating (using old, that is), with the Moana reference.

I think MOS is onto something good RIGHT NOW by supporting widely available Mac hardware. But I don't really see it as a sensible way forward in the long run. And I think this is where Hyperion also objects to the idea. Yes, it solves the immediate problem of "where do I run my OS right now", but it doesn't address the problem of "where should we be in 5 years time".

On a totally different note, AMD are moving their CPU and GPU closer together. Will this be the death of the GPU-on-a-card as a product? Or is it only for the lower-end devices due to the increasingly absurd power consumptions of modern top-end CPUs and GPUs?

Last edited by olegil on 29-May-2013 at 02:57 PM.

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This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

@olegil

Quote:

But it might be that this is exactly what you're advocating (using old, that is), with the Moana reference.

im not advocating anything, i would prefer a genuine "amiga" hardware myself if such was sensibly possible. in fact using a macintosh as hardware base putts me off, not even for its age but still of all treadoffs this seems to me the most reasonable.

Quote:

I think MOS is onto something good RIGHT NOW by supporting widely available Mac hardware. But I don't really see it as a sensible way forward in the long run. And I think this is where Hyperion also objects to the idea. Yes, it solves the immediate problem of "where do I run my OS right now", but it doesn't address the problem of "where should we be in 5 years time".

i dont think there is any "long run" we may be talking of. and this is exactly a mistake os4 team is either unaware of themselves (cant actually think of developers being so naive), or (even worse) intentionally misleading the user base. consider that wherever our development goes the outside world will have left and abandoned this place long ago moving even further. firefox port comes to mind, jus as one simple example. so, actually there is almost only the present, we can talk about, and this is what we should be doing, and this is what morphos team apparently does. the world doesnt stand and wait for us, the situation is dynamically changing and the bes politics in this situation is stay flexible, react swpontaniously to events and involve the minimax strategy in your efforts, that means minimal investment for maximal immediate gain. forging strict long distance plans is not a solution.

Last edited by wawa on 29-May-2013 at 03:20 PM.

@wawa

Quote:

since the introduction/release of sam460 (dezember 2010 so far i recall), first there were no drivers so there were no issue. then after several months or a year you have finally introduced a driver for the onboard soud (correct me if im wrong). then people complained about problems like crackling and distortions. finally after few months the driver was fixed so far that there was no complains. then someone mentioned this problem again, and all the sudden there were other users that admitted they had the same issue only didnt tell. everybody was thinking the driver is still buggy afair, till you have found out the resistor issue and told people how to fix it.

Simply you are mixing a development of audio driver with mentioned problem that affected 25 boards in production (not a design flaw). Acube has also a great record in developing software for OS4 too ... not only moana, but some other software too
http://www.soft3dev.net/pages/amigaos.php

On the other "modern" vs "Obsolete" (hardware) even test posted to prove G4 and G5 superiority over 440/460/Pa Semi have indicated very nice disk and memory transfers of ACube/A-EON boards, coupled with PCI-E cards, that is where currently produced hardware feels way modern.
And it certainly adds to users feeling of speed, beside benchmarking per se.

As you do know, development of RadeonHD drivers and now more sound card drivers (Envy24, X1000 HD audio) is exactly what is a nice opportunity why MOS team might reconsider options and where first time "trade off" is possible (where currently OS4 does better, even HD drivers are 2D and mentioned sound drivers are yet to be polished).

Coupled, with hopefully finished Open Office and Timberwolf ports, OS4 might gain some good ground and show a way to go, too. Not that I have anything against MorphOS being developed further. As we have seen, current OS 4.1 is way improved from OS 3.x but not that great and distant. Such software and driver features should make a difference, and similar road is where MOS can also improve.

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Future Acube and MOS supporter, fi di good, nothing fi di unprofessionals. Learn it harder way!

Improved OS doesn't fix the situation as long as there is available slow and expensive OR fast and super expensive hardware only.

@ExiE

Quote:

Improved OS doesn't fix the situation as long as there is available slow and expensive OR fast and super expensive hardware only.

Exactly. Support for G5 and R300 is step forward, but it is still only year 2004/2005 class hardware.

@pavlor

Quote:

pavlor wrote: @ExiE Quote: Improved OS doesn't fix the situation as long as there is available slow and expensive OR fast and super expensive hardware only. Exactly. Support for G5 and R300 is step forward, but it is still only year 2004/2005 class hardware.

Still way faster than most other offers. And fast enough for many things. At least MorphOS on G5 can provide a modern and full media system experience now with full HD working luently. This is a big step forward.

To "fix the situation" in one would need
-more applications
-up to date OS
-attractive hardware

MorphOS focuses on #2 hoping to gain more applications and offer deveopers a broad and cheap hardware basis.

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My programs: via.bckrs.de
MorphOS user since V0.4 (2001)

@pavlor

Quote:

pavlor wrote: @ExiE Quote: Improved OS doesn't fix the situation as long as there is available slow and expensive OR fast and super expensive hardware only. Exactly. Support for G5 and R300 is step forward, but it is still only year 2004/2005 class hardware.

Just bought G5 Dual 2.5 GHz , 1 GB RAM, 250 GB HD, 9600XT for 75€ so I can accept that it's old...

@Zylesea

Quote:

To "fix the situation" in one would need -more applications -up to date OS -attractive hardware MorphOS focuses on #2

I have to agree that MorphOS team fixed the need of reasonable hardware for some (limited) time, and now they can focus on everything else like improving OS, more apps or even moving OS to another architecture (architecture with the future). And they numbers can grow a bit.

Unfortunately there is nothing like that on the other side, and it looks to me that not even "the vision" :(

Last edited by ExiE on 29-May-2013 at 07:12 PM.
Last edited by ExiE on 29-May-2013 at 07:10 PM.

@Zylesea

Quote:

Still way faster than most other offers.

Like Atari?

Only joking of course.

Quote:

To "fix the situation" in one would need

Quote:

more applications

Office suite would be nice, even AmiCygnix-like solution would be fast enough on G5.

Quote:

up to date OS

Nearly impossible, if backwards compatibility is required.

Quote:

attractive hardware

I can´t call hardware without support for current standards (PCIe, USB3.0 etc.) attractive. Best hardware right now has AROS, but it needs still much work to be really useable.

Sorry for OT comment. Back to MorphOS 3.2:
How fast is R300 in comparison to R200 in games like Quake2/3?

The thing is...Apple like amazon and google don't pay their taxes...so they can afford "better" production facilities in China

Also comparing Acube with Apple...pl..ease!

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www.loriano.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk