@Hondo

I have tried this route. the problem is legalities and what the users want. I was ready to launch a product called Amiga OpenLinux which I feel would have, with work, infused the Amiga scene with something that could have been usable on both the PowerPC and x86. Besides feedback from users, I was eventually bombarded with "legal" mumbo jumbo and legal threats. Im still open with working with the community and while I throw in some fun stuff for them to use

http://www.everydaylinuxuser.com/2013/10/os4-openlinux-lightweight-linux-based.html

Im also willing to work with developers of AmigaOS and MorphOS and AROS, but I get fed up with the Amiga developers complaining about a stupid ball that they feel they have some ownership rights to and they dont. But anyhow, Im still here and Im trying to find the proper route with which to establish a working relationship with them as well as other communities.

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@WolfToTheMoon

Quote:

WolfToTheMoon wrote: @Hondo In around 1999, a perfect NG AmigaOS was formed when Gateway announced they will be using QNX as a basis for the new Amiga OS.

Here something back the GW2000 age:


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Collas said Amiga has chosen Java as its primary programming language for portable apps based on AmigaObjects -- a component system for building applications. AmigaObject technology can be embedded in machines from handhelds up to big servers, Collas claimed.
...
Amiga has evaluated a range of operating systems including QNX, BeOS, JavaOS and Linux
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Source: http://www.theregister.co.uk/1999/07/16/amiga_releases_technical_brief/

This doesn't sound like a continued Kickstart/AmigaOS.

You can replace the Name Collas with McEven and you will get AmigaDE, AmigaAnywhere or some other middle-ware that might only be named Amiga by the owner of the Amiga IP.

The system below the middle-ware or the kernel used (when blown up to an OS like distribution) doesn't matter at all and it doesn't matter what CPU is used, because this systems could be released as software.

Last edited by Arko on 21-Oct-2013 at 08:31 PM.

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AmigaONE. Haha. Just because you can put label on it does not make it Amiga.

I borrowed this comments from here (#27 & #28):
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=38873&forum=2&start=20&order=0

@WolfToTheMoon

Quote:

Amiga ws sold to McEwen & Co.

I believe you misspelled "licensed" again.

Feel free to insert evil grin or take it seriously.

#6

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*Secrecy has served us so well*

@number6

Quote:

number6 wrote: @WolfToTheMoon Quote: Amiga ws sold to McEwen & Co. I believe you misspelled "licensed" again.

You enjoyed that way too much.

Last edited by Boot_WB on 22-Oct-2013 at 12:18 AM.

_________________
Troll - n., A disenfranchised former potential customer who remains interested enough to stay informed and express critical opinions.
opp., the vast majority who voted silently with their feet.

@Overflow

Quote:

Sometimes I do wonder what your agenda is.

pavlor:

[Quote] wawa=aros68k[/Quote]

while ist not the entire truth, this is some hint though;)

Quote:

Let them enjoy it.

an os4 fan (hondo) has opened this thread and deliberately invited me to take part with it. i tell here what his problem (imho) is, he can i my opinion solve all by himself. okay. might sound rude... truth (if this is actually truth) hurts sometimes. im really deep in disagreement with hondo usually, but it is not my primary Intention to offload it all on him for personal reasons or so, if you assume this.

now, the question is independant of what we are talking here about. lets say you have an idea attached to a name. they get disconnected, the name gets acquired and the idea gets carried on independently. what do you stick with, i ask. thats all. ..

@number6

Quote:

Make no mistake

so far i dont see any mistake being made.

@RobertJDohnert

Quote:

the problem is legalities and what the users want.

as you yourself recognize, you cant complain for a few reasons to name the two you mentioned:
you came in and apparently stirred a fight immediately and it seems on purpose (even if in good faith, if it is so). what do you imagine the welcome of those who imagine to own "amiga" should be like in this situation? you did not seem to be offering support but rather trying to take something away from them, that they consider their "precious". there are others (trevor) who likely approached more gently and got their share. if ist good or bad for them in the end i wont judge.

the second part you have to take into account is the community of extremely different viewpoints, who also Imagines to have something to say in the matter.


see the swamp ahead?

Last edited by wawa on 22-Oct-2013 at 12:45 AM.

@wawa

Quote:

as you yourself recognize, you cant complain for a few reasons to name the two you mentioned: you came in and apparently stirred a fight immediately and it seems on purpose (even if in good faith, if it is so). what do you imagine the welcome of those who imagine to own "amiga" should be like in this situation?

Actually no, I didnt "start a fight immediately" I came in because A) we both served a similar audience, I saw a way we could work together and if you look at all my posts I never said I wanted to take ANYTHING away from the users but to give them a choice, which I have done, which the classic users seem to appreciate. It was the people who perceived that I entered this to seek revenge for Barry Altman, which was such a load. I felt I could contribute, certain groups wanted to block it that was fine, you dont want my help or need it. Im going to concentrate on my userbase. Im not the one bleeding users. As for the "Amiga" owners, I have no problems with the owners at all, just a licensee who has no rights to begin with, and a third party who it is none of his business and continues to be none of his business. I have discussed my intentions with the Mr. Cohen, the attorney for the Kouri estate, and the "owners" are supportive and encouraged by what I want to do, the licensee, is not but in the end it doesnt matter what he thinks, as you stated its all up to the owners. as for the "boing ball" you cant get a copyright, because someone else already owns the copyright, you cant get a trademark because of prior art. That third party, you know the one where its none of his business, cant sit there and make an argument oh its been changed. Its a load of crap. In the end if they want to fight me, lets fight. The lawyers will get richer, they'll get broker and I will continue to service the users. The users are the important ones, they are the ones I care about, they are the ones I work for. Too many people lose sight of that without realizing, without users you have no business, you have NOTHING.

Quote:

you did not seem to be offering support but rather trying to take something away from them, that they consider their "precious". there are others (trevor) who likely approached more gently and got their share. if ist good or bad for them in the end i wont judge.

I have done nothing but support trevor, I have made serious offers to Trevor that even if he doesnt want to use OS/4, I will help him with ANY Linux distro he wants to create, modify or maintain for the X1000, or beyond OpenSUSE, Ubuntu, Debian it doesnt matter to me. Im sure if he ever needs my help, he will call on me again. I have done nothing but want to help Trevor and others, but I do believe me and the OS/4 team can help, and yes we would even help for FREE, because we care about technology we care about people, maybe thats a bad thing coming from the Linux community, but no show of good will or productive dialog will go anywhere unitil some ego's get deflated a little and it turns into the love for technology its supposed to be and not a size contest. furthermore and in closing, someone posted earlier that I tried to deceive the community. Nope, never happened. Never once have I ever tried to trick people into thinking OS/4 OpenLinux was more than just a great desktop linux distribution. Classic users who like it, and it serves their purpose I will keep including and maintaining those emulation technologies. The AmigaOS 4 people and PowerPC users, well if they have a G4 or G5, they can use OS/4 soon on those machines. If they dont, well if they come across some x86 hardware they want to use, they can use OS/4 OpenLinux. They dont even have to buy a copy if they dont want to.

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@KimmoK

Quote:

all poor sides of Linux start to emerge. (complexity, bloat, etc...)

You are mixing the Linux (the Kernel itself) with GNU/Linux distribution (Linux Kernel + the GNU rest) here.

@michalsc

Which is something almost everyone does.

But the Linux kernel itself IS suffering a tad from bloat. Compiling in the same things now that we used with 2.2 (embedded system, no additional hardware to speak of) will result in a much larger binary.

I've never liked the monolithic idea of "everything in supervisor mode", I honestly feel that TCP/IP, filesystems and serial port handlers do not belong in kernel space. Very often I write something which just does a mmap of some address and accesses hardware directly

I just read the wikipedia page on microkernels, and the L4 idea of passing messages between processes by filling up registers and doing an incomplete context switch sounds pretty frigging awesome.

_________________
This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

@olegil

Quote:

But the Linux kernel itself IS suffering a tad from bloat. Compiling in the same things now that we used with 2.2 (embedded system, no additional hardware to speak of) will result in a much larger binary.

I know, and I loved the 2.2 kernel very much, especially running it from Flash directly on a 386EX machine with 2.5MB of RAM :) Nevertheless, the overhead when switching from 2.2 to new kernel is eventually caused by an increased amount of features, I hope so at least ;)

Apart from that I doubt the new kernel would be also slower than the 2.2 one.

Quote:

I've never liked the monolithic idea of "everything in supervisor mode", I honestly feel that TCP/IP, filesystems and serial port handlers do not belong in kernel space.

Neither I did. It really feels wrong. That's why I would love to see something like AROS hosted on QNX (microkernel) or hosted on Dragonfly BSD (hybrid kernel). Unfortunately, the hardware support of both is much much worse then that of linux kernel.

Quote:

Very often I write something which just does a mmap of some address and accesses hardware directly

Same here. Now, the only thing missing is to write a kernel module which converts an incoming IRQ to a signal in userspace, or allow userspace process to sleep and wait for an IRQ :)

Quote:

I just read the wikipedia page on microkernels, and the L4 idea of passing messages between processes by filling up registers and doing an incomplete context switch sounds pretty frigging awesome.

Yes, L4 has some nice stuff in it, but quite often it tends to overcomplicate simple things, which kinds of break the KISS rule for me ;)

@WolfToTheMoon

Quote:

Windows, OS/2, BeOS and NEXTSTEP all either preceed Linux or have been in development prior to Linux gaining widespread support.

There you go. They all put those features in. Before Linux became a shared standard. Which futher makes my point.

@wawa

Quote:

how is it worse than switching to another almost dead architecture

It looks like I will have to point out the elephant in the room. Because it isn't native! It would run emulated. There would be no switching architecture for the OS.

For OS developers who have the actual source code this wouldn't be a professional way of producing an OS.

Quote:

genuine amiga 68k should have become the true "amiga anywhere" and we would have been fine.

What about UAE? On modern systems it gives more freedom to run AmigaOS emulated on a host OS and there is no need to disable Amiga chipsets. Who wants to reboot to run another OS? Modern PCs are fast, the Amithlon idea should be dead. No need these days for such limitations.

Quote:

i think we will be soon able to judge ourselves if this is a solution or not. the only major handicap so far is it will not be called "os4"

Whatever it is Hyperion won't be working on it.

Last edited by Hypex on 23-Oct-2013 at 02:56 PM.

@IntuitionAmiga

Quote:

AmigaOSXL was a POS. Amithlon on the other hand was a work of genius and a thing of beauty.

It always amused me what Amithlon did to the "Amuga" scene. People were saying it was the greatest Amiga software, at least it looked that way in my parts. But this was simply not the case, as Amithlon wasn't Amiga software. It ran on a PC, it was PC software and I saw it as such. I was more amused when an Amiga owner asked if it could run on his Amiga and make it faster!

Perhaps it was an extension of Simamese Systems or an Amiga chipsetless Draco. But trying to turn the Amiga into a PC didn't excite me much.

@RobertJDohnert

Didn't you leave my questions unanswered in another thread?

In any case I hope you come out with a better Linux for PowerPC than what is out there. I gave up trying to boot Debian64 install disc on a G5 PowerMac as it just broke and wouldn't boot.

On my PowerBook I had to download three older versions of Ubuntu Live PPC before one would boot. Aren't programmers meant to fix bugs, not create them?

And finally what kind of nerd put together that terrible bootloader for the Mac? He obviously didn't know what hardware he was working on. Macs are meant to be friendly! Instead when you boot Linux on a Mac you are stuck in this old fashioned text screen with the most riduculously smallest font ever and expected to type what option I want! What the hell!? Am I on a C64 or a Mac!?!? The PC version is better! It uses cursor keys! The Mac has a boot selector with icons! Use it!! Please remvove all nerds from using Macs, they dont know what they are doing.

As insulting as that sounds, that's the most constructive way I can describe the Mac bootloader programmmer.

But don't get me started on that boot partition...

@Hypex

Quote:

trying to turn the Amiga into a PC didn't excite me much.

What do you think an A1, a SAM, a Pegasos or an X1000 is?

They are nothing but standard PC motherboards using standard PC components with a different CPU.

@Hypex

No offense guy, but until you start using Amithlon a person cant really appreciate it properly. Unlike UAE its not really an amiga emulator, but rather software to run AOS on a pcs hardware directly. This of course requires a 68k cpu emulator, but its a different kettle of fish to UAE, etc.
It uses things like poseidon, openpci, native amiga tcp/up stack, gives direct hardware access (which besides just speed is handy for things like creating p96 screenmodes, newlowlevel.lib, amiga drivers, etc.).

It has more in common with other 68k capable NG options than an emulator like UAE.

This isn't just because of the ability to mix and match both architectures of the platform seemlessly either (libs, binaries, etc.).

I just recently upgraded (well, more or less replaced) my Amithlon box to a 4.1ghz core2duo system

Last edited by fishy_fis on 22-Oct-2013 at 04:16 PM.

And am freaking loving it. I can also use dual outputs of my videocard under Amithlon/OS3.9 for software that supports it, and can use 9pin joysticks/mouses (thanks to newlowlevel.lib + catweasel) as well as using amiga floppies and sid chip, etc.
As for the question "who wants to have to reboot into another OS?", what makes you think Amithlon users actually do this? I personally use a dedicated machine for Amithlon. Just because a person has an x86 machine doesn't mean they dual boot any more than any other architecture. Cant say Im a fan of relying on an entire other OS to host my fast "68k"/RTG/RTA system either.

P.s. freaking phone.... trouble editing above post so continued it here instead

Last edited by fishy_fis on 22-Oct-2013 at 04:46 PM.
Last edited by fishy_fis on 22-Oct-2013 at 04:31 PM.
Last edited by fishy_fis on 22-Oct-2013 at 04:26 PM.

@Hondo

Should Linux kernel power future AOS solution ?

No.

But it might be handy to run Linux as a slave to AOS. Oh! Wait a minute, it is getting to that point.

_________________
Tinkering with computers.

@Hondo

"NO"

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