@Arko

Quote:

The filters where better, it supported more picture formats and PPaint still got updates after DPaint was abandoned.

You can add much better font support to that list, antialiased scaleable fonts where the reason I used PPaint for a lot of my early web graphics. AS can be seen on this somewhat aged site design www.barkingspider.abelgratis.com

The aspect of DPaint I missed in PPaint was antialised curves and circles.

Needless to say I now use SketchBlock for upto date graphics, but occasional PPaint if I want an animated banner (using it's very good gif support).

Last edited by broadblues on 03-Apr-2014 at 01:32 PM.

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@Arko

Quote:

Arko wrote: @Raffaele Quote: Raffaele wrote: The only PPC code redarding PPaint of which I had knowledg ... ETC. Fine at least you are commiting you where wrong.

I think we have a mutual misunderstood here...

...And please no... a simple PPC library dealing with Fast RAM allocation makes not in any way PPaint as PPC software running natively and still makes it not portable if migrating to 64 bits and SMP architecture...

Or do you want to leave PPaint stuck in emulated 68K Motorola code and still dealing only with 8 bits in 2014?

Last edited by Raffaele on 03-Apr-2014 at 01:49 PM.

_________________
"When the Amiga came out, everyone [at Apple] was scared as hell." (J.L. Gassée, former CEO of Apple France and chief of devs of Mac II-fx, interviewed by Amazing Computing, Nov 1996).

@fryguy

Quote:

fryguy wrote: Was PPaint released in an OS4.x native version?

Still nuff released at ­April, 04, 2014...

Even if it exists a PPC version of PPaint in the hands of developers, it will remain vaporware, and of no use at all for us and for our platform until officially released to public.

_________________
"When the Amiga came out, everyone [at Apple] was scared as hell." (J.L. Gassée, former CEO of Apple France and chief of devs of Mac II-fx, interviewed by Amazing Computing, Nov 1996).

@Jupp3

Quote:

Jupp3 wrote: @RNS-Amiga-Scientist Quote: Painting program is just a tool in the painter's hands. It does not replace the painter! Thus I think the Bitplane graphics is not dead. Both Personal Paint and (newer versions of) Deluxe Paint support chunky graphics modes too (in addition to bitplane). Exact same pictures can be drawn in both modes. This should be enough proof that "whether or not it's bitplane" is completely irrelevant when it comes to drawing programs.

Infacts Dpaint 5 supported also AA chunky graphic modes.

_________________
"When the Amiga came out, everyone [at Apple] was scared as hell." (J.L. Gassée, former CEO of Apple France and chief of devs of Mac II-fx, interviewed by Amazing Computing, Nov 1996).

@broadblues

Quote:

broadblues wrote: @fryguy Quote: Was PPaint released in an OS4.x native version? Not yet. I won't comment an when where and how it may be released as that's not for me to say or even hint at, but since Mike has posted that info on the Cloanto site I can confirm the port 95% done, and being tested.

That's a great coffee news, Honey (half-CIt.)

_________________
"When the Amiga came out, everyone [at Apple] was scared as hell." (J.L. Gassée, former CEO of Apple France and chief of devs of Mac II-fx, interviewed by Amazing Computing, Nov 1996).

@broadblues

Quote:

The aspect of DPaint I missed in PPaint was antialised curves and circles. Needless to say I now use SketchBlock for upto date graphics, but occasional PPaint if I want an animated banner (using it's very good gif support).

Well, i wonder it could be done with some AREXX code, if just someone had the idea and the skills for creating such a PPaint antialiased curves creator REXX Script...

Last edited by Raffaele on 03-Apr-2014 at 01:53 PM.

_________________
"When the Amiga came out, everyone [at Apple] was scared as hell." (J.L. Gassée, former CEO of Apple France and chief of devs of Mac II-fx, interviewed by Amazing Computing, Nov 1996).

@Raffaele

Quote:

Raffaele wrote: Infacts Dpaint 5 supported also AA chunky graphic modes.

There never was a chunky mode in AGA

Quote:

Raffaele wrote: .And please no... a simple PPC library dealing with Fast RAM allocation makes not in any way PPaint as PPC software running natively and still makes it not portable if migrating to 64 bits and SMP architecture...

Providing functions needing extensive CPU power in external libraries is the best way to go when it comes to modern systems using SMP, GPUs or other features.

It's not a simple function like 'drawing' that makes a lot use of the CPU.

Last edited by Arko on 03-Apr-2014 at 02:15 PM.

_________________
AmigaONE. Haha. Just because you can put label on it does not make it Amiga.

I borrowed this comments from here (#27 & #28):
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=38873&forum=2&start=20&order=0

@Raffaele

Quote:

still makes it not portable if migrating to 64 bits and SMP architecture...

So now there's some evidence of some PPC development, are you trying to prove "Well, it would STILL be useless!" ?

Sure, it doesn't support SMP. But I wouldn't consider that TOO critical. And I can't see much use for 64bit support either (assuming the OS4 version with 64bit support* can also run 32bit code, like most 64bit-supporting operating systems can)

* Assuming it will be actually released some day - for now it's as vapor as PPaint PPC by your own standards.

Quote:

Or do you want to leave PPaint stuck in emulated 68K Motorola code and still dealing only with 8 bits in 2014?

That would still be better than DPaint1-3 (for which you are asking sources, despite newer versions being "more suitable for modern use")

@Jupp3

Quote:

Jupp3 wrote: @Raffaele Quote: still makes it not portable if migrating to 64 bits and SMP architecture... So now there's some evidence of some PPC development, are you trying to prove "Well, it would STILL be useless!" ?

It is amiga world Juppe... Don't believe anything until "it's done!"...

Last edited by Raffaele on 04-Apr-2014 at 04:24 AM.

_________________
"When the Amiga came out, everyone [at Apple] was scared as hell." (J.L. Gassée, former CEO of Apple France and chief of devs of Mac II-fx, interviewed by Amazing Computing, Nov 1996).

@Arko

Quote:

Arko wrote: @Raffaele There never was a chunky mode in AGA

CD32 was AGA and translated chunky modes automatically from chunky to bitmap and vice versa thanks to Akiko.

Last edited by Raffaele on 04-Apr-2014 at 04:28 AM.
Last edited by Raffaele on 04-Apr-2014 at 04:28 AM.

_________________
"When the Amiga came out, everyone [at Apple] was scared as hell." (J.L. Gassée, former CEO of Apple France and chief of devs of Mac II-fx, interviewed by Amazing Computing, Nov 1996).

@Raffaele


Raffaele wrote:
>>> Infacts Dpaint 5 supported also AA chunky graphic modes.

Arko Wrote:
>> There never was a chunky mode in AGA

Rafaele wrote:
> CD32 was AGA and translated chunky modes automatically
> from chunky to bitmap and vice versa thanks to Akiko.

Arko explains:
The conversion works by writing 32 8-bit chunky pixels (with CPU) to Akiko's registers and reading back eight 32-bit words of converted planar data which can then be copied to the display buffer.
I never saw an official statement about DPaint using the Akiko.

Fact:
There was no 'automatic' conversion, and there where no chunky screen modes in AGA

Conclusion:
It seems you are crying for DPaint (and sometimes mixing it up with PPaint) because you never tried something else. It seems you don't understand the technical limits behind the Amiga and why Amiga programs built around this limits would not work on modern system.

Last edited by Arko on 04-Apr-2014 at 11:14 AM.

_________________
AmigaONE. Haha. Just because you can put label on it does not make it Amiga.

I borrowed this comments from here (#27 & #28):
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=38873&forum=2&start=20&order=0

@Arko

- Paul: "They tried and failed?"

- Rev. Mthr. Mohiam: "They tried and died!"

Last edited by Raffaele on 05-Apr-2014 at 12:03 PM.

_________________
"When the Amiga came out, everyone [at Apple] was scared as hell." (J.L. Gassée, former CEO of Apple France and chief of devs of Mac II-fx, interviewed by Amazing Computing, Nov 1996).

@Arko

Quote:

I never saw an official statement about DPaint using the Akiko

I do not know if Dpaint V uses chunky modes but what Akiko makes is not magic it could be made in software almost as fast as in hardware with 020 and fast ram and with 030 and beyond outperform the Akiko chip

_________________
No PowerPC, No Fun
Make Amiga Great Again

@Raffaele

Quote:

It is amiga world Juppe... Don't believe anything until "it's done!"...

Exactly. Don't worry of lack of 64bit or SMP support in a simple (and I might add, rather outdated, obviously goes to both dpaint and ppaint) paint program when there's no AmigaOS4 that even supports those.

So for now, PPaint has some minor public PowerPC support AND has "vapor" (as vapor as the SMP+64bit OS4) fully native version. That's much more than what we would have (and likely end up having) if some ancient (as opposed to "slightly more recent & system friendly") DPaint sources were released.

Of course it would be nice to have PPaint sources too. Anyone thought of asking for them?

Last edited by Jupp3 on 05-Apr-2014 at 01:15 PM.

@Jupp3

It's great you like PPaint but you've got less chance of getting the sources as it still bundled as part of Amiga Forever! DPaint is abandonware as far as EA are concerned and that should warrant the release of the sources. Developers and ex-users remember DPaint not PPaint as a killer app on the Amiga and I'm sad to say PPaint was never viewed in the same way despite the RTG, limited PPC support and animation features added.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@BigD

And image filtering, and remapping of 24bit images to 8bit, etc.. PPaint have lots of good features...

I just hope Cloanto or even ACube (which was about to funding/purchasing PPaint) could update it to a more robust and useful tool for painting...

I simply desire 8/24 bit (even without the bonus of alpha channel and layers)... at least I will appreciate a good swapping pages features, multiple undo and redo extended to image filters as filters still allow only one level undo, icons of tool bar that change according to graphic resolutions to enhance their visibility, and other features like these...

Last edited by Raffaele on 05-Apr-2014 at 02:45 PM.

_________________
"When the Amiga came out, everyone [at Apple] was scared as hell." (J.L. Gassée, former CEO of Apple France and chief of devs of Mac II-fx, interviewed by Amazing Computing, Nov 1996).

@Raffaele

If you need 24 bit why don;t you use SketchBlock? Have you tried it? If you didn't like it why not, what features would you like in it?

All these programs you ask for are 8bit , you will not get 24 bit from them any time soon. Even if you have the source.

_________________
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@broadblues

Quote:

broadblues wrote: If you need 24 bit why don;t you use SketchBlock? Have you tried it? If you didn't like it why not, what features would you like in it?

I believe extending an existing 24 GFX program would make more sense, than porting a program that was tuned for an abandoned hardware platform.

Useful(?) DPaint features:

- Mirroring
DPaint had a function for painting nice mirrored pictures

- Pattern Fill
Fill regions with a pattern

- Gradient Fill
Fill regions with a color gradient

- Custom Filters
PPaint had a nice Option for user generated custom filters.

- Different Paint modes
DPaint lacked a real alpha channel or layers but you could define a color as background, maybe this is the way to go, define a color range as background for painting or brush selection.

- Light table / Rotoscope
Supporting a light table function, usable for Animations (generation + export of indexed pictures for external tools mencoder)
Rotoscoping could also be used for simple generation of camig like pictures (I posted a link to a program with source doing this)

This could make you program a perfect replacement for DPaint a replacement better than the original program.

Thing that where nice too in DPaint/PPaint:
- Selecting and painting with magnifying glass was done nicely.
- Displaying and usi9ng coordinates
- Custom grid
- Export as 'C-Code'

And something missing in DPaint, PPaint
- Support tile generation for game background.
A lot of games are using tiles for their backgrounds, this tiles must be fitted to 8 others neighbor tiles.#

---

And final,

you could not do all this at once, pick aout the option you like to implement and ask users )via poll) what is needed most.

_________________
AmigaONE. Haha. Just because you can put label on it does not make it Amiga.

I borrowed this comments from here (#27 & #28):
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=38873&forum=2&start=20&order=0

@broadblues

Quote:

broadblues wrote: @Raffaele If you need 24 bit why don;t you use SketchBlock? Have you tried it? If you didn't like it why not, what features would you like in it? All these programs you ask for are 8bit , you will not get 24 bit from them any time soon. Even if you have the source.

Actually i am on MorphOS so i could not get a try to Sketchblock.

On MorphOS I tried Griboullis from Yogui, but i dislike the interface that is not intuitive... it is a fair full of sliders although the graphic routines are good...



[EDIT]

I just took a look to screenshots.

Judging from what i saw from screenshots, Sketchblock has an ugly interface too, like Griboullis...

its aspect remembers as like the horrible Microsoft Paint...

i think it is good for quick anyday artworking, not for intensive use, with rapid choosing of brushes primitives (pen, chalk, pencil, watercolor, etc. )and paint styles (color, rubthru, maximum, minimum, lighten, darken, smear, etc.)...

[Question:]

Does it supports these features?

But i think one's people should be content wtih what nature offers, and thanks forever the kindness of existing amiga developers who continues tirelessly their work efforts to keep alive our platform.

[Question:]

Does it allow resize of brushes with keyboard keys too, or does it works by using interface sliders only?

Last edited by Raffaele on 06-Apr-2014 at 12:17 PM.
Last edited by Raffaele on 06-Apr-2014 at 12:15 PM.

_________________
"When the Amiga came out, everyone [at Apple] was scared as hell." (J.L. Gassée, former CEO of Apple France and chief of devs of Mac II-fx, interviewed by Amazing Computing, Nov 1996).

@Raffaele

Quote:

Actually i am on MorphOS so i could not get a try to Sketchblock.

Ah, that explains it then, it's very good you know , worth getting AmigaOS 4.1 for

Quote:

I just took a look to screenshots. Judging from what i saw from screenshots, Sketchblock has an ugly interface too, like Griboullis...

Beauty is in theeye of the beholder

Quote:

its aspect remembers as like the horrible Microsoft Paint...

Ooof, that was low! Actual the initial layout was inspired GIMP, as that is the non AmigaOS program I was using most, but I have evolved from there a little.
It's deisgned to be customisable, although the fully customisable GUI is still in the works currently it could be replaced almost completely by a ProAction or MUIRexx GUI, everything and I do mean everything can be reprduced / controled via ARexx.



Quote:

i think it is good for quick anyday artworking, not for intensive use, with rapid choosing of brushes primitives (pen, chalk, pencil, watercolor, etc. )and paint styles (color, rubthru, maximum, minimum, lighten, darken, smear, etc.)...

I think it's a lot more usuable that that, but I'm biased.

Quote:

[Question:] Does it supports these features?

Choosing a brush is a simple as clicking on the brush section of the "layers window". You can setup the "Layers" and "Tools" windows to be "ToolBox windows" which means when you tap on them to select a brush or change a setting you don't loose focus in the main window, so there is no glitching as you transistion. Presests can be saved and access from a menu, or you could add frequently needed ones to a hotkey.

The current modes are available:
"Normal" (equivalent colour or matt depending on if a brush is set to use it's own colour or just its alpha channel)
"Multiply" "Divide" "Add" "Subtract" "Difference" "Hue" "Colour" "Saturation" "Value" "Desaturate" "Screen" "Dodge" "Burn"

Smear would be provided by "Smudge" and "Smooth" which are sepaerate tools.
'Value' above gives you darken and Lighten depending on your current foreground colour and opacaity setting.


Quote:

[Question:] Does it allow resize of brushes with keyboard keys too, or does it works by using interface sliders only?

Yes, by defsult the ',' COMMA and '.' PERIOD keys resize the brush in steps of 10% I think.

Press the ALT key to vary the brightness of the colour instead.

Spend a little time studying the existing menu and keyboard shortcut settings and you can setup many combinations. I deeiberately haven't filled in all the gaps to allow people to setup their own environments.

I generally work with a graphics tablet and use the Right Amiga ALT RMB emulation to bring up menus. Using the burron on my tablet styles is very unreliable.

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