@lylehaze

the world is not black or white but gray. Here is all very simple, all is black or white. If some could simply say what this moderator did was simply wrong (in my view he is not qualified for moderation either) but it was not necessary to create the thread (that would have ended some time ago) almost everyone would sign it. Some objective view. Instead it starts the typical "Everyone is against us", "Trolls" and so on. It is simple predictable unfortunately. If you do not want other users here then simply tells it to us. But then do not moan that others treat you the same way.

@OlafS25

By expirience, everyone should know such a thread title would spark a 100 post fest in a short period of time.

itix could have edited the thread "problem solved". Might have dampened some of the noise, but doubt it.

I think Lyle and Trevor got the best approach to forums in general (judging by conduct); ignore the noise and keep the post count low.

@Overflow

Yes of course. Itix did not create the thread because he was happy. But the (almost predictable) reaction by some starting to defend the moderator made it much worse.

Even AmigaOS users and moderators can be wrong, almost unbelievable for some it seems. As I said the discussion already had ended, Amigakit had promised to look at the case so it could have ended there. If people would have resisted to post there in typical manner (including Mikey)

@Overflow

Quote:

itix could have edited the thread "problem solved".

so far i understand the problem has been promised to be looked at. marking it as "solved" remains the with the thread poster responsibility according to the course of events he is aware of. still since this problem is not an isolated issue, discussion is rather supposed to sort it out than trying to act if nothing happened, even if it took forever. as itix said, after a fight one can be friends. or not.

@OlafS25: I totally agree. Here it seems that facts don't count. itix was PERMANENTLY banned by a moderator which has watched Capitan America's second movie recently, "killing" people that, in HIS vision, POTENTIALLY could commit a "crime". And some users are trying to defend such surrealist situation...

I have to say, though, if I ran a forum and somebody messaged me telling me that he was going to use my own forum to tell everybody about how bad I was, and how he would never use my business...well, I'd have banned him too. Or did I miss something?

@Spirantho

No, you haven't. However, one has to bear in mind that you shouldn't put yourself above criticism. Sometimes constructive criticism is useful, it will help you grow into a better person or organisation.

Take this site, there is a problem where everytime something positive about Amiga OS4 gets posted its normally the usual suspects (no need to name names, everyone knows who I am talking about) who go in there, undermine, claim faux-moral outrage, spread FUD, etc and pollute the forums.

This will continue until the new owner comes in and decides which direction they want this site to go in. Whether its MOS, AROS or AOS.

Until that happens this site will continue to have the childish spats. Which I have said before, matters not because to the rest of the world we are just a population of aging nut cases in our own asylum.

_________________
No cause is lost if there is but one fool left to fight for it.

@Spirantho

Quote:

I have to say, though, if I ran a forum and somebody messaged me telling me that he was going to use my own forum to tell everybody about how bad I was, and how he would never use my business...well, I'd have banned him too. Or did I miss something?

Exactly!

.... and if i remember good there was before amigakit and aeon here in the site rules that was not allowed speak bad all the amiga company ...
Aeon, Acube, AmigaKit and so and so and the people involved there.

_________________
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@Spirantho

It is a question that is worth a thought about how far is it enough that someone makes a threat to be punished already.

You make a threat against US presidents life, and I guess you can be jailed already (not sure of this, just my guess).

But at least there is the attempt of murder which gets you jailed already, even when it fails, or even if it was obviously meant to fail.

I suppose the case with Walking dead actress was that she knew right from beginning that US President wouldnt receive her deathly letter, since point was just to frame her husband, but regardless, shes jailed because of that.

But how in forums case, as they are not life threatening situations, at least not by default. At max in this case it could have been livelihood threatening i guess.

Plus not to mention that if i understood right, Itix didnt actually threat to do anything, hes "threat" was just to not do. As not do buy or endorse.

@Mikey_C

I do agree, and criticism is very important, but it must be handled in the right way. Itix's message came across to me as though he was going to do anything he could to stop AmigaKit getting anyone's business, and that isn't the right way. I suspect that may not have been itix's intention (if it was then yes, I would have banned him, that's only sensible if someone is openly crusading against you). I think I would have asked Itix what he meant by it and tried to work things amicably rather than applying the BanHammer immediately.

Equally, though, the knee-jerk reaction of some here ("The MOD did something wrong! Ban and sack him! And anyone who disagrees is a blind slave to the system, man!") doesn't do anyone any favours.

I think this, personally:

What we've got here is a failure to communicate.

@Spirantho

Critics are important but if some one continue push aginst all the AmigaOS 4 friend because a strange psyco crusade need to be cut ..
I know many exaple of this kind of people and usually are people who dont have the hardware and not have the OS, This people try to fire everything around this micro life system for i dont know what reason .
Speak bed about one company made by 2 people that make their job with passion and thanks to they we can have a service is a really really horrible thing.

I dont wanna attack itx this post is not against him but i think him have to say sorry to this guys because with his way to do , make the people thinks bad about two people who spend money and time for an hobby thing of the others.

Last edited by tlosm on 28-Oct-2014 at 08:16 AM.

_________________
I love Amiga and new hope by AmigaNG
A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32;
PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB;
MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz;
#nomorea-eoninmyhome

@Mikey_C

I thought "Mikey" sounds familiar to me

now I know again... the "Mikey" who removed my posts about "Aros Vision" on amigans.net?

You are certainly the last one lecturing others...

@Thread

It is disappointing that all seem to fall back in their old behavior

Wrong behavior is wrong behavior whoever does it, done by a AROS or MorphOS moderator is as bad as done by a AmigaOS moderator. There are basic rules if you want to live in peace with others. If people make a difference there and say all is ok as long as the person is from "my camp" then we have a serious problem. Then it is better to make this again a "AmigaOS" site like it was in the past and everyone goes its own route

@Spirantho

Quote:

Spirantho wrote: I have to say, though, if I ran a forum and somebody messaged me telling me that he was going to use my own forum to tell everybody about how bad I was, and how he would never use my business...well, I'd have banned him too. Or did I miss something?

I am afraid you did.

Please see post number 125 in this discussion thread. itix did not explicitly state that he would use any forum to advise against buying from a particular business. He made a generic remark that he will no longer do business with Amikit and recommends others should not either. That is all.

itix only made a forum post (albeit on a different website) after suddenly being permanently banned for allegedly threatening to "misuse" the amiga.org forums.

Furthermore, if the recent acquisition of amiga.org implies that community members are no longer allowed to criticize its owners and related businesses, this should be properly announced and clearly stated in the Terms of Use since it would be a drastic new limitation that has never existed before. Even though amiga.org has been owned by another business before, plenty of site members chose to and were allowed to criticize DiscreetFX like they could with any other business in this market.

@tlosm

do you all not understand? If you do not differentiate the others will not differentiate too. If people defend wrong behavior the others say "AmigaOS community is like a sect" and treat them as a block even though that is not true. But from outside it very much looks like. You are saying this or that person is saying something so it must be wrong? Perhaps even critics are true sometimes. I think you all cannot imagine how you look like when you act like this when something new reads it. I am "new" in a sense (returned 2010) so I was not part of the big camp fighting so attitudes many here have is more than strange. And if you go outside most people there will think that too.

@Spirantho

a moderator should know when he acts and when not and if others disagree not point at TOS and banning everyone. And when he realises that he went too far excuse himself.
There is not any sign by this moderator, even worse I think he sees as a kind of executor of the interests of a company and not as a forum moderator. And he is not visible before May 2014, what qualifies him to moderate a amiga forum?

@OlafS25

Im returned from 2012 after 10 years on "planet windows apes" and "osx donkey" .. ok crytics are sometime good but example i can meke a critic on Apple for some stupid things that they did on hardware and many more on software. I had been swap/sell/ had 10 Apple machine from 2010 and right now i have 3 ... what the sense i dont like people who are made critics to this and that without test.... you will never ear me speak about AROS because i m not an user of it i can say Morphos i dont like too much but it work and good... it is a taste thing .
What i continue not understand why only in amiga community there are people who continue make the war of poor.... And why there are only in amiga community people who continue speak and write without have any skill about different hardware if not their home pc...

I had been write before I had been buy a PowerMac G5 quad only because was tired to ear about the not great performance of this cpu and after have it i had been understand of much people was wrong .

This example you can make in relationship with amigakit.com , the guy gave me a good service much more better than some other old amiga german seller who made me open a paypal dispute for have my goods.

Last edited by tlosm on 28-Oct-2014 at 09:27 AM.

_________________
I love Amiga and new hope by AmigaNG
A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32;
PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB;
MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz;
#nomorea-eoninmyhome

@tlosm

I have never made comparisons either between the platforms because I do not use them and have no experience.

BTW you can like a company or not without using their products (Apple), you cannot make judgements about their OS of course

The discussion was not about Amigakit in reality, it was about moderation on the sites they own. I think moderators there were partly out of control, they saw it as a "company" and "marketing" site and not as a user forum. And the discussion people here reacted on critics on this defending even wrong behavior when coming from "the right side". I thought we would go further, overcoming this old and sorry to say "stupid behavior" but it seems people stick in it and cannot get out. I am really really disappointed now, perhaps I was epxecting too much. For me it does not make sense to be active on a "99% AmigaOS" forum where people are so intolerant and always reacting on reflexes and not thinking first. I will propably take the advices here and make a different own forum with open speech, tolerance and clear rules.

@ASiegel

Itix did say this, though:

Quote:

Originally Posted by itix Thank you for your message. I am never going to buy anything from AmigaKit web store anymore and recommend other Amiga users to avoid their web store as well.

Given that he's writing on a forum to a forum moderator, and has just openly said that he's going to tell other people not to use the forum's owner as a business, I think it's quite reasonable to assume that he's going to be telling people on the forum. I have to say, I read that PM as nothing less than a threat - that may well have been because it's Itix's second language, but that's how I read it.

This is how I see it:


From Itix's point of view:
AmigaKit buys Amiga.org and Amigaworld.net
Itix is unhappy with some of the moderation on the website, so emails the admin to say that he's unhappy with this moderation, and as long as moderation is being abused, then he is unable to justify spending any money with AmigaKit, and would suggest to others that they may also make a stand against this moderation by boycotting AmigaKit themselves.
Itix gets banned because the moderator can't take any criticism and AmigaKit aren't allowing anyone to disagree with their actions, and they're taking over forcing their beliefs on everyone else.

From the Mod's point of view:
AmigaKit buys Amiga.org and Amigaworld.net
Itix threatens the admin (i.e. AmigaKit) telling them openly that he's going to use their own forum to try and take them down by encouraging people to boycott AmigaKit, because of some personal grudge.
Itix gets banned, because of an open threat to try and destroy AmigaKit using their own forums as a weapon.


That's how I see it, anyway. Am I wrong? I fail to see how sacking the moderator for this is going to help anyone - mods deserve to be given the benefit of the doubt just as much as regular users do.

@OlafS25

Spirantho thread made better understand everything ... and i can only agree with Spirantho.

About Amigakit way of moderation ... lets check how they will mod the site if something will be wrong i had been say on another post open a new website is simple and everyone who will not like their "strategy and phylosopy or dictact" can go there ;)

_________________
I love Amiga and new hope by AmigaNG
A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32;
PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB;
MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz;
#nomorea-eoninmyhome

@Spirantho

I think it is a misunderstanding of the intentions of Amigakit and Trevor. I believe them that they had honest intentions when they bought the forum but some of the moderators had their own views what is in interest of the owners. If it is a censored pure "marketing" site for the owners they should communicate it and then at least people would know. If it is not (what I think) then the owners should clearly communicate that to the moderators. I think it is a problem that there are people moderating who do not really know what the intentions of the site are.

Yes you are right with the description... at the moment it is a "marketing" site (by moderation) officially a user forum. The people responsible should decide and then communicate it officially (for both users and moderators).

And that is the disadvantage of owning a user forum... you are made responsible for what moderators do

Last edited by OlafS25 on 28-Oct-2014 at 09:54 AM.