I just find OS4 very messy, and cannot really relate to people who say that it is so similar to OS3. If I was to decide anything, I would make a new release of OS3.9, but heavily trimmed, stripped for all useless fluff, no ReAction, and working on 68000, an OS3 that is updated and can be used on all 68k systems.

And then I would work on reimplementing the Amiga user experience as a modern operating system, wich means kicking legacy concerns out the window and reimplement the features of AmigaOS that we users love, on a modern and future proof platform design. Pretty much what Apple did when they transcended from OS9 to OSX, via NeXTStep and Rhapsody, using Darwin BSD and Mach as their foundation.

MorphOS developers have hinted they may want to take a similar approach, from what I understand, but I am not exactly holding my breath.

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B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC

@kolla

== Aros + Proper funding + Expert, paid leadership

@resle

No, AROS is for people who want to do what they want to do, introduce funding and paid leadership and you have ruined it. Anyways, AROS is same old, nothing modern about it.

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B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC

@kolla

ah, ok

@Hillbillylitre

With regards to the xbox, I read an interview with John Riccitiello;

http://www.pressfire.no/nyheter/PS4/9659/sony-traff-faen-meg-spikeren-p-hodet-og-de-fortjener-seieren

The article is in Norwegian, but im sure you could use googletranslate to get the gist of it.
Basically he argued that Microsoft/xbox tried to do too much, while Sony/PS focused on gaming.

As for its more fun driving a real car. Well, ofcourse, but not everyone have the time OR money to drive a Bugatti at Silverstone. Thats the whole point of games/simulators.
Fly a Airbus 380 or whatever.
For a stationary PC productivity software is also important, like Microsoft Office/Libreoffice, Photoshop, Vegas....... ....

So the argument is availability of software thrumphs the "coolness" of the name.

That said, I read thru Amiga Future's interview with Daniel and Markus from Cherry Darling yesterday. What Daniel commented on with regards to AOS4.x's 3D capabilities did concern me a bit. He did comment on AROS being lightyears ahead of AOS. MorphOS also got AOS4 beat.
Thats an objective argument from a developer that supports all "Amiga platforms".
A somewhat troubling aspect was the feedback/suggestions for improvements he had sent to Hyperion fell on deaf ears.

But as said before; spending money on ANY amigarelated platforms is irrational if you want to be 100% objective. If you remove the "fun/intresting" aspect of computing and only concern yourself with price vs performance, everyone should stick to Intel based computers right now.
But some of us do find enjoyment in obscure OS/Hardware (be it AROS, MorphOS, AOS, C64 etc), and the whole cost argument doesnt really come into the equation.

Talking about cost. Yes the x1000/PPC hardware is quite expensive vs performance.
But if you want to talk about investment, spending time on any low performance OS's be it AOS, AROS, MorphOS, C64 is a complete waste.
Still people spend weeks and months programming/optimizing on barebone Amiga/C64/spectrum for demoparties like Revision. Completely irrational waste of time...
IF it hadnt been for the whole "I do it because its a challenge/fun/intresting" factor.

What I am curious about, is what OS4 users find appealing with OS4. I have only OS4.0 for Classic myself, but already there I find everything simply too messy and cluttered, OS4.1 from what I understand is very much the same, only even more stuff added.

On the other hand, MorphOS strikes me as cleaned up in comparison, assigns are by default used in a way that makes it is an OS very easy to maintain and keep clean. AROS is pretty straight forward and clean too, allthough the various AROS distros can be messy in their quest for "user friendlyness".

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B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC

Quote:

Overflow wrote: spending money on ANY amiga related platforms is irrational

Is that bad?

@kolla

AROS wants to introduce new features without breaking compatibility too much (f.e. experimenting with SMP)

we understand that all existing amiga platforms are not good enough for you

There are two options... helping and contributing (what would be possible at least on AROS) and when you do not want to do that then do something better and show it. What do you think?

BTW Aros can be used also for commercial, f.e. MorphOS used parts of Aros and is commercial, 3.9 back in the old days and was commercial, Arix would be commercial either. The only limitation that when you improve parts of the system you have to give back changes (opensource). Not doing anything because you would "ruin" anything because of commercial use sounds to me a little weak.

@kolla

To me AOS4 seems more straightforward after using AOS3. But I admit it's modern incarnation can be hard to maintain with old methodes and can become messy.
MorphOS seems more foreign after quick try. But I believe it is ahead in easy maintenance vs AOSs.

I personally have learning to do with both AOS4 and MorphOS.

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- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@KimmoK

People do not use OS features, they use Software. Breaking any existing code to get memory protection what would the benefit? You would have a platform without content. If I understand him right he wants to do a kind "amigaish" Linux distribution. Then you can ask what is the advantage or difference of this compared to existing bigger distributions. And why not simply doing it, then he can show the results and if it is good enough some people might be interested to use it. Otherwise it is just talk.

@OlafS25

> If I understand him right he wants to do a kind "amigaish" Linux distribution.

Oh, I see.




IMO:

-Linux seems too far away from Amiga. User experience is not in it's focus, it's a server OS.
(But I really should play more with AEROS to get an idea how well AOS+Linux can work together.)

-being able to use multiple cores and more than 2Gb RAM are important and as I want to use a modernish AmigaLikeOS I think those challenges must be taken care of. If it requires breaking backwards binary compatibility, its' 100% OK. If it breaks everything, then it's not nice, but if it looks and feels like an Amiga, perhaps it is an Amiga.... I would want to try it.

-Average person in Amiga community is not young any more. It would be nice if people could buy new modernish Amigas also in the future, for that to happen we must have systems running on more affordable new HW. That can be achieved via various ways, with x86, ARM or PPC. (perhaps even with 68kNG on FPGA)

-Better find the way to stop the community from shrinking before attacking on the "leading OS" arena...


ALSO: FOR ME, it was superb when I once felt that i mastered my Amiga HW+SW 100% (or 99%).
Today I feel I master 25% of my AOS4, 15% of my MorphOS, 5% of AROS, 10% of Windows and 5% of Linux.
To master 95% of linux, I think I would need another (few) lifetime(s).
To master 95% of AOS4, AROS and MorphOS I think I need less than a lifetime.

(mastering widows is not possible as they f*ck it up again in every new release and I kid you only 50%)

Last edited by KimmoK on 12-May-2015 at 11:22 AM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 12-May-2015 at 11:16 AM.

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- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@KimmoK



I still do not see the sense of a "new OS"

And at least Mesa/Gallium and (to a certain degree) SMP can be added (AROS is proof of that)

Real memory protection would propably mean drastic changes and I doubt that any existing software could be compiled for that without heavy changes.

One developer is doing a great job right now porting Lazarus (Free Pascal RAD environment) to AROS. I think developments like that bring much more new users and developers than "a new OS" would do.

Last edited by OlafS25 on 12-May-2015 at 11:21 AM.
Last edited by OlafS25 on 12-May-2015 at 11:20 AM.

@OlafS25

>Real memory protection

Perhaps "Partial (but better than current) memory protection" can also be a target.
And sandboxing the legacy stuff.

I know it is a challenging task. (and IMO only slightly less important than multicore support or 4Gb ram)

I personally would not mind to separately boot to MP + SMP + 64bit AOS when I need superb stability, if sandbox is not available. (+ then I can run legacy via QEMU+WinUAE... )

Last edited by KimmoK on 12-May-2015 at 11:28 AM.

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- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@Thorham

Nope, thats really my point tho.

People apply some unrealistic scale of comparison when discussing the quality of any amiga platform, be it AOS, MorphOS and AROS.

@KimmoK

People are interested in using modern applications and development tools. That should be the focus and of course affordable hardware (a specific problem for one of the camps ). We are much too focused on OS features. I often read that if AmigaOS would have MP and SMP and would be 64bit then it would rule the world. I do not think that. It would break any compatibility and would have to use UAE for 68k. And using UAE and not having something like Petunia is often used against AROS. So people have to decide, being amigaish like it is now or modern. People want both but that is unrealistic. Even MorphOS will break compatiblity when changing ISA. More software is not coming automatically because there are plenty of modern alternatives already.

Last edited by OlafS25 on 12-May-2015 at 11:36 AM.

@BigD

Quote:

BigD wrote: @Hillbillylitre Quote: To be perfectly honest I see no reason at all to buy an OS4 system, actually I see only drawbacks so if it was me who was going to have something like that in my house it was me who should get paid. It's just a big lump without usefulness nor personal values, I could just as well slapped a sticker on a large rock and dragged it into the house. "It was me who should get paid", what the hell does that mean?! Basically, either buy OS4.x hardware or don't but if not and you don't even have an interest then the question must be asked why do you care enough to tell an Amiga forum that you don't like Amiga NG hardware? Life's too short mate

It means exactly what I wrote. I see only drawbacks with an OS4 system, and the fact that it would almost have been like slapping a sticker on a large rock there are billions of around here and dragging it into the house. It's waste of space, no personal values and complete useless... Okay maybe it could have been used as a table or something...

When it comes to interests I still have my old Commodore computers. I will not throw them out nor sell them, and they have at least personal values.

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Using: One Commodore C64 - One Commodore Amiga 500 - One Commodore Amiga 1200 with BVision and Blizzard 68060 with PPC coprocessor running Amiga DOS - One Hellbillylitre Amigatwox86x64x6000x running Windows7

@All

It is really bad seeing OS4 people always forced to defend their system!

Come on guys, try to be more on topic and constructive too.

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SAM440EP-FLEX @ 733 Mhz, AmigaOS 4.1 Update 1

@Trewq

"PowerPC could even be mainstream again if Amiga companies just play their cards
really really well."

I agree!

+1

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retired

@AmigaBlitter

mainstream?

Sorry how should that work out

Even Linux is a niche product (a relative big niche of course). Mac is in the "creative" niche and Windows around 80-90% on desktop market. Where is there any room for another "mainstream" OS?

X64 for desktop, ARM for tablet/smartphones and so on

processor development is very expensive, who is investing now money in development of new PPC processors? Freescale is just slowly abandoning PPC very slowly but with 100% guarantee and certainly not investing

PPC is niche too and slowly dying between AMD64 and ARM

Last edited by OlafS25 on 12-May-2015 at 01:27 PM.
Last edited by OlafS25 on 12-May-2015 at 01:27 PM.

@OlafS25

Quote:

So people have to decide, being amigaish like it is now or modern.

I agree with this, and for me have decided AmigaOS (in its current OS4.1 FE form) is the best balance of being the most of one without sacrificing the other. The hardware is not a bargain, but in the end I decided to go for it because I'm only going to live once. No sense wasting away years not enjoying this stuff waiting for something that is not going to exist. I enjoy greatly using new and old Amiga software, as well as some quality ports from Linux land, on my X1000. I like the seamless compatibility of running old 68K system-friendly creative applications under Petunia, and frankly do not at all enjoy running anything with UAE so avoid it in favor of my Commodore-era hardware for that stuff. I get my daily work done with an iMac 27 and a Macbook Pro, but a large amount of my "fun" is with Amiga stuff, new and old.

To get back to the topic, I do not believe AmigaOS will ever be or should ever be "a leading operating system" again in terms of the mainstream, especially if that means throwing out compatibility and nostalgic familiarity. What we have now suits me, and I'm not waiting around for any pipedream that will never exist.

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